A Tragic Untold Story

[keefe]

Whenever there is a mass shooting we tend to focus on gun control. But a more fundamental issue is this nation's management of mental health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/01/government-has-failed-the-mentally-ill.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gov't has made people mentally ill

[GGGG]

Whenever there is a mass shooting we tend to focus on gun control. But a more fundamental issue is this nation's management of mental overall health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/01/government-has-failed-the-mentally-ill.html

FIFY.

[Skatastrophy]

FIFY.

It's more profitable to treat issues as they arise than it is to resolve problems permanently.

[brandx]

It's more profitable to treat issues as they arise than it is to resolve problems permanently.

Mental help for those that need it is staggeringly more cost effective than imprisoning (or executing) the mentally ill.

[warriorchick]

Mental help for those that need it is staggeringly more cost effective than imprisoning (or executing) the mentally ill.

Unfortunately, you can't force treatment on someone who doesn't want it.  A large number of mentally ill people who are prone to violence think they are fine.

[brandx]

Unfortunately, you can't force treatment on someone who doesn't want it.  A large number of mentally ill people who are prone to violence think they are fine.

You're right, but that still leaves a lot of people who could be helped.

[Skatastrophy]

Mental help for those that need it is staggeringly more cost effective than imprisoning (or executing) the mentally ill.

Industries have been built off of imprisoning mentally ill people instead of getting them help. Our approach won't change anytime soon.

[mu_hilltopper]

Curious question .. does anyone know about how other countries do better/worse on mental illness issues?  France, Canada, Mexico .. Estonia, Russia, China, India?

[MU82]

Whenever there is a mass shooting we tend to focus on gun control. But a more fundamental issue is this nation's management of mental health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/01/government-has-failed-the-mentally-ill.html

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

[keefe]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

There is a huge difference between mental illness and profound stupidity, 82. Unfortunately.

[brandx]

Industries have been built off of imprisoning mentally ill people instead of getting them help. Our approach won't change anytime soon.

The worst of both worlds - for-profit schools and for-profit prisons.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

I think that is what is referred to as "Freedumb".

[brandx]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

Really! 4 adults and not a single, working brain between them.

If she would have shot the other 3 (her parents and the range owner), I would argue she was the smart one

[Lennys Tap]

The worst of both worlds - for-profit schools and for-profit prisons.

My son is the principal at an international school in Tokyo. It's a for profit. The learning environment and their results are spectacular.

[brandx]

My son is the principal at an international school in Tokyo. It's a for profit. The learning environment and their results are spectacular.

The Japanese look at these things quite a bit different than we do.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Check out the latest from The Atlantic.  What a fabulous magazine.


The Future of College?

A brash tech entrepreneur thinks he can reinvent higher education by stripping it down to its essence, eliminating lectures and tenure along with football games, ivy-covered buildings, and research libraries. What if he's right?

By Graeme Wood
August 13, 2014
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/08/the-future-of-college/375071/

[keefe]

My son is the principal at an international school in Tokyo. It's a for profit. The learning environment and their results are spectacular.

I am not taking issue, Mr Bernstein. In fact, I am a huge fan of international schools. I went through them as did my children. I think the structural differences with International schools are compelling guarantors of success:

- Cost: Tuition at International schools run about $30K. Capital Debentures are an equal amount. Other fees add in another $5K.  All in it costs almost $70K a year to put a kid through an international school. MNCs pick up the tab for this and it is an expected cost of stationing an expat in a foreign market. As such, corporations usually select their very best for these assignments. And corporations want no problems with dependent children during an assignment because they want the Expat to have a laser focus on his professional responsibilities.

- Parents: Because parents are typically highly motivated, well educated, successful people they tend to impart those same values in their children. There are no indigent parents at International Schools.

- Faculty and staff: International schools pay much better and offer expat perks to staff. This tends to attract not just the best but from a global pool of open-minded, adventuresome people. Who better to expand the horizons of the young than people with a dedicated sense of enterprise and curiosity?

- Student body: My kids have stayed in touch with friends from throughout Asia, Europe, Aus, and Latin America. And they do so in common third languages. A huge part of the international school experience is the life long friendships children make with others from around the globe.

I think many of these same factors support the success enjoyed by private schools in the US. Many on this board went through parochial programs which led them to Marquette and professional success.

But I'm not convinced that for-profit education can lay claim to these criteria. I know that at the tertiary level, for profit education is a travesty. Does anyone take seriously a degree from Phoenix, AIU, Argosy, or any of the hundreds of other similar for profit enterprises? 

[keefe]

Check out the latest from The Atlantic.  What a fabulous magazine.

I have been a devoted reader for decades. I couldn't agree more, Nutmeg!

[tower912]

As one who has spent many years working with the homeless in my community.....    Mental illness is a huge element among the homeless population.   A generation or two ago, many of the homeless would have been housed in old-school mental hospitals/sanitariums.    It was decided that it was too expensive and led to horrific living conditions.  It was decided to treat the vast majority in an outpatient fashion.  
    So many times, we will respond to a homeless person passed out on the sidewalk.   They have been drinking, which completely neutralizes the psychotropic drugs, the anti-seizure medications, which if taken regularly and correctly, can make it possible for these poor souls to function nearly normally.     There are places they can go for shelter, for help with their medications, for all sorts of assistance.   But to go to them means a perceived loss of independence.   Many would prefer to live in their camps, under their bridges, in their culverts, than submit to the rules and regulations and go through the pain of fighting their addictions.   I am not saying this as a part of any study, these are things that members of the homeless have said to me.   There are no easy, one-size-fits-all answers.  But doing nothing isn't working, either.  

[keefe]

As one who has spent many years working with the homeless in my community.....    Mental illness is a huge element among the homeless population.   A generation or two ago, many of the homeless would have been housed in old-school mental hospitals/sanitariums.    It was decided that it was too expensive and led to horrific living conditions.  It was decided to treat the vast majority in an outpatient fashion.  
    So many times, we will respond to a homeless person passed out on the sidewalk.   They have been drinking, which completely neutralizes the psychotropic drugs, the anti-seizure medications, which if taken regularly and correctly, can make it possible for these poor souls to function nearly normally.     There are places they can go for shelter, for help with their medications, for all sorts of assistance.   But to go to them means a perceived loss of independence.   Many would prefer to live in their camps, under their bridges, in their culverts, than submit to the rules and regulations and go through the pain of fighting their addictions.   I am not saying this as a part of any study, these are things that members of the homeless have said to me.   There are no easy, one-size-fits-all answers.  But doing nothing isn't working, either.  

I am sure you have a much better perspective since you and your men deal with this on a very personal level. My exposure is seeing these poor souls at many intersections around Bellevue and Redmond - upper middle to exclusive areas. I mention that as Seattle has cracked down aggressively on homeless panhandling and squatting which has caused them to come east across the bridges. Most churches in Bellevue, mine among them, allow the homeless to camp on the grounds, offer prepared meals, and take in a number of people once the weather turns.

I work in the kitchen a couple times a month and it clear that most men are mentally unstable while women with children are victims of abuse. It is hard to not feel a sense of anger that amidst so much material wealth we have citizens crawling in the dirt.

[77ncaachamps]

I am not taking issue, Mr Bernstein. In fact, I am a huge fan of international schools. I went through them as did my children. I think the structural differences with International schools are compelling guarantors of success:

- Cost: Tuition at International schools run about $30K. Capital Debentures are an equal amount. Other fees add in another $5K.  All in it costs almost $70K a year to put a kid through an international school. MNCs pick up the tab for this and it is an expected cost of stationing an expat in a foreign market. As such, corporations usually select their very best for these assignments. And corporations want no problems with dependent children during an assignment because they want the Expat to have a laser focus on his professional responsibilities.

- Parents: Because parents are typically highly motivated, well educated, successful people they tend to impart those same values in their children. There are no indigent parents at International Schools.

- Faculty and staff: International schools pay much better and offer expat perks to staff. This tends to attract not just the best but from a global pool of open-minded, adventuresome people. Who better to expand the horizons of the young than people with a dedicated sense of enterprise and curiosity?

- Student body: My kids have stayed in touch with friends from throughout Asia, Europe, Aus, and Latin America. And they do so in common third languages. A huge part of the international school experience is the life long friendships children make with others from around the globe.

I think many of these same factors support the success enjoyed by private schools in the US. Many on this board went through parochial programs which led them to Marquette and professional success.

But I'm not convinced that for-profit education can lay claim to these criteria. I know that at the tertiary level, for profit education is a travesty. Does anyone take seriously a degree from Phoenix, AIU, Argosy, or any of the hundreds of other similar for profit enterprises? 

That pretty much sums it up.

Teachers and school holds the kids accountable.

But it's the parents, by holding their children accountable, reinforce the importance of playing well, following directions, etc.

[MU82]

I am not taking issue, Mr Bernstein. In fact, I am a huge fan of international schools. I went through them as did my children. I think the structural differences with International schools are compelling guarantors of success:

- Cost: Tuition at International schools run about $30K. Capital Debentures are an equal amount. Other fees add in another $5K.  All in it costs almost $70K a year to put a kid through an international school. MNCs pick up the tab for this and it is an expected cost of stationing an expat in a foreign market. As such, corporations usually select their very best for these assignments. And corporations want no problems with dependent children during an assignment because they want the Expat to have a laser focus on his professional responsibilities.

- Parents: Because parents are typically highly motivated, well educated, successful people they tend to impart those same values in their children. There are no indigent parents at International Schools.

- Faculty and staff: International schools pay much better and offer expat perks to staff. This tends to attract not just the best but from a global pool of open-minded, adventuresome people. Who better to expand the horizons of the young than people with a dedicated sense of enterprise and curiosity?

- Student body: My kids have stayed in touch with friends from throughout Asia, Europe, Aus, and Latin America. And they do so in common third languages. A huge part of the international school experience is the life long friendships children make with others from around the globe.

I think many of these same factors support the success enjoyed by private schools in the US. Many on this board went through parochial programs which led them to Marquette and professional success.

But I'm not convinced that for-profit education can lay claim to these criteria. I know that at the tertiary level, for profit education is a travesty. Does anyone take seriously a degree from Phoenix, AIU, Argosy, or any of the hundreds of other similar for profit enterprises? 

This sounds very similar to the private schools in Chicago that I know a lot about because my kids knew some of those kids from rec-league and travel-team sports.

I mean, kids at Chicago Latin had parents paying 30K and everybody was motivated and they all went to great colleges.

Money buys a lot, no matter the enterprise. Including education all the way from preschool through law school.

[brandx]

As one who has spent many years working with the homeless in my community.....    Mental illness is a huge element among the homeless population.   A generation or two ago, many of the homeless would have been housed in old-school mental hospitals/sanitariums.    It was decided that it was too expensive and led to horrific living conditions.    

One month prior to the 1980 election, President Carter had signed the Mental Health Systems Act, which had proposed to continue the federal community mental health centers program, with some additional state involvement. But when President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried. The CMHC program had not only died but been buried as well.

Proving that karma does exist, two months after taking office, Reagan was shot by John Hinckley, a young man with untreated schizophrenia. Reagan was also exposed to the consequences of untreated mental illness through the two sons of Roy Miller, his personal tax advisor. Both sons developed schizophrenia; one committed suicide in '81, and the other killed his mother in '83. Despite such personal exposure, Reagan never exhibited any interest in the need for study or better treatment for serious mental illness.

In other words, Mental illness was treated the same by Reagan as the AIDS epidemic -- WHO CARES

[tower912]

I know all of that, but I chose to not politicize it. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

It was stupidly executed.  My daughter has been shooting (gun and bow) since that age.  She is quite proficient and extremely safe.  Accidents happen, and they should not have put that type of gun in that girl's hands.  That's not mental illness, that's just being stupid.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am not taking issue, Mr Bernstein. In fact, I am a huge fan of international schools. I went through them as did my children. I think the structural differences with International schools are compelling guarantors of success:

- Cost: Tuition at International schools run about $30K. Capital Debentures are an equal amount. Other fees add in another $5K.  All in it costs almost $70K a year to put a kid through an international school. MNCs pick up the tab for this and it is an expected cost of stationing an expat in a foreign market. As such, corporations usually select their very best for these assignments. And corporations want no problems with dependent children during an assignment because they want the Expat to have a laser focus on his professional responsibilities.

- Parents: Because parents are typically highly motivated, well educated, successful people they tend to impart those same values in their children. There are no indigent parents at International Schools.

- Faculty and staff: International schools pay much better and offer expat perks to staff. This tends to attract not just the best but from a global pool of open-minded, adventuresome people. Who better to expand the horizons of the young than people with a dedicated sense of enterprise and curiosity?

- Student body: My kids have stayed in touch with friends from throughout Asia, Europe, Aus, and Latin America. And they do so in common third languages. A huge part of the international school experience is the life long friendships children make with others from around the globe.

I think many of these same factors support the success enjoyed by private schools in the US. Many on this board went through parochial programs which led them to Marquette and professional success.

But I'm not convinced that for-profit education can lay claim to these criteria. I know that at the tertiary level, for profit education is a travesty. Does anyone take seriously a degree from Phoenix, AIU, Argosy, or any of the hundreds of other similar for profit enterprises? 

You would be surprised.  One of the ladies I work with at HBO has her undergrad from Cal, she just got her MBA from Phoenix a few years ago.  Finished a certificate a few weeks back from Harvard.  Her Phoenix degree hasn't slowed her down one bit.

[brandx]

I know all of that, but I chose to not politicize it. 

Wasn't meant to politicize. Just sayin' that it was a strategic political decision -  not an accident.

[keefe]

You would be surprised.  One of the ladies I work with at HBO has her undergrad from Cal, she just got her MBA from Phoenix a few years ago.  Finished a certificate a few weeks back from Harvard.  Her Phoenix degree hasn't slowed her down one bit.

I would argue that it hasn't helped her either. Fact is, for-profit tertiary education in this country is a travesty. You will find no bigger supporter of free market capitalism than I. And while education is a business I would argue that the vast majority of degree programs, especially the distance learning model, are nothing more than a shake down of Federally-guaranteed capital.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I would argue that it hasn't helped her either. Fact is, for-profit tertiary education in this country is a travesty. You will find no bigger supporter of free market capitalism than I. And while education is a business I would argue that the vast majority of degree programs, especially the distance learning model, are nothing more than a shake down of Federally-guaranteed capital.

Subjective and impossible to say.  She was just promoted to VP over there and her belief was that it doesn't happen without her MBA. 

You may be 100% correct....believe me I don't like defending our bloated educational system or how the gov't dollars are spent putting it into a death spiral.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

One month prior to the 1980 election, President Carter had signed the Mental Health Systems Act, which had proposed to continue the federal community mental health centers program, with some additional state involvement. But when President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried. The CMHC program had not only died but been buried as well.

Proving that karma does exist, two months after taking office, Reagan was shot by John Hinckley, a young man with untreated schizophrenia. Reagan was also exposed to the consequences of untreated mental illness through the two sons of Roy Miller, his personal tax advisor. Both sons developed schizophrenia; one committed suicide in '81, and the other killed his mother in '83. Despite such personal exposure, Reagan never exhibited any interest in the need for study or better treatment for serious mental illness.

In other words, Mental illness was treated the same by Reagan as the AIDS epidemic -- WHO CARES

Making it up as he goes along... pathetic.

[CTWarrior]

This sounds very similar to the private schools in Chicago that I know a lot about because my kids knew some of those kids from rec-league and travel-team sports.

I mean, kids at Chicago Latin had parents paying 30K and everybody was motivated and they all went to great colleges.

Money buys a lot, no matter the enterprise. Including education all the way from preschool through law school.

Not just money.  My son went to a $12K/year Catholic high school in CT.  The teachers are less well paid than their public school counterparts, the facilities are far less than the public school counterparts.  Many kids at the school are unpriveleged kids from Bridgeport on scholarship.  The school outperforms public schools by a mile for one reason.  The kids come from families that understand the importance of education and are there to learn and prepare for college.  If you want to screw around and be disruptive, they can (and do) just expel you.

I have always said that what you are really paying for at Catholic High Schools (besides theology classes) is better classmates.

[brandx]

Not just money.  My son went to a $12K/year Catholic high school in CT.  The teachers are less well paid than their public school counterparts, the facilities are far less than the public school counterparts.  Many kids at the school are unpriveleged kids from Bridgeport on scholarship.  The school outperforms public schools by a mile for one reason.  The kids come from families that understand the importance of education and are there to learn and prepare for college.  If you want to screw around and be disruptive, they can (and do) just expel you.

I have always said that what you are really paying for at Catholic High Schools (besides theology classes) is better classmates.

You're right. Accountable, invested parents make all the difference in the world.

[MU82]

Not just money.  My son went to a $12K/year Catholic high school in CT.  The teachers are less well paid than their public school counterparts, the facilities are far less than the public school counterparts.  Many kids at the school are unpriveleged kids from Bridgeport on scholarship.  The school outperforms public schools by a mile for one reason.  The kids come from families that understand the importance of education and are there to learn and prepare for college.  If you want to screw around and be disruptive, they can (and do) just expel you.

I have always said that what you are really paying for at Catholic High Schools (besides theology classes) is better classmates.

My kids went to a great public elementary school in Chicago and then a great public high school in Chicago, the former in a working-class neighborhood and the latter in what could be described as a "rough" neighborhood. My kids had wonderful classmates of all religions, races, creeds and colors.

We paid for those wonderful classmates with our taxpayer dollars. Because we didn't pay five-figure annual tuitions for 13 years of elementary and high schools, we could afford to pay for our kids to go to college.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Not just money.  My son went to a $12K/year Catholic high school in CT.  The teachers are less well paid than their public school counterparts, the facilities are far less than the public school counterparts.  Many kids at the school are unpriveleged kids from Bridgeport on scholarship.  The school outperforms public schools by a mile for one reason.  The kids come from families that understand the importance of education and are there to learn and prepare for college.  If you want to screw around and be disruptive, they can (and do) just expel you.

I have always said that what you are really paying for at Catholic High Schools (besides theology classes) is better classmates.

I'm on the flip side in my Connecticut town.  (I know what town CTWarrior lives in, so I know why he would send his kids to private HS.)  My kids go to a public school and will definitely go to the public HS as it's way better than most private schools.  96% of the students go on to college after graduation.  If students decide to go to a private school it's usually one of the Connecticut Prep schools like John Hopkins that cost $42k year to attend.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Making it up as he goes along... pathetic.

Thanks for quoting Brand....I always love the blame for the boogeymen from 30 years ago.  Sort of like the current issues going on, I guess he forgets who controlled EVERY aspect of gov't only a few short years ago.  EVERY.  Executive, Senate, House.  Then when things aren't "fixed" or not even addressed, the blame is on the current set of fools or from people 30 years ago (or 6 years ago).   Imagine that. 

Besides, RR was too busy fixing a country that was totally F'd by the guy he took over for....priorities.

[brandx]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

In today's shocking news:

Staff at an Arizona gun range reportedly told investigators that the release forms signed by the family of a 9-year-old girl who accidentally killed her instructor with an Uzi last week were unavailable because they had been "blown away by the wind."

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

In today's shocking news:

Staff at an Arizona gun range reportedly told investigators that the release forms signed by the family of a 9-year-old girl who accidentally killed her instructor with an Uzi last week were unavailable because they had been "blown away by the wind."

The dog ate my homework?

[brandx]

The dog ate my homework?

Nice job!!

[rocket surgeon]

In today's shocking news:

Staff at an Arizona gun range reportedly told investigators that the release forms signed by the family of a 9-year-old girl who accidentally killed her instructor with an Uzi last week were unavailable because they had been "blown away by the wind."

the hard drive they had the release forms on was destroyed by 2 rogue workers from cincinnati

[brandx]

the hard drive they had the release forms on was destroyed by 2 rogue workers from cincinnati

Nice job as well!

[ChicosBailBonds]

The dog ate my homework?

The hard drives were scratched....ahem...cough cough...IRS...cough cough

[Golden Avalanche]

Thanks for quoting Brand....I always love the blame for the boogeymen from 30 years ago.  Sort of like the current issues going on, I guess he forgets who controlled EVERY aspect of gov't only a few short years ago.  EVERY.  Executive, Senate, House.  Then when things aren't "fixed" or not even addressed, the blame is on the current set of fools or from people 30 years ago (or 6 years ago).   Imagine that. 

Besides, RR was too busy fixing a country that was totally F'd by the guy he took over for....priorities.

Did a bang up job too: invading irrelevant Caribbean islands, funding the Afghani mujahideen (we know what that led to), selling arms to a "mortal enemy" of the US, using those funds to sow unrepentant genocide in Central America, doubled the national debt (or is it tripled?), raised taxes nearly every year in office, unemployment skyrocketed during middle of his term, amnesty to undocumented immigrants, the excellent "war on drugs", etc.

The above sounds distressingly familiar. No President "fixes" and no President "destroys" the country. It's a muddled mix that is rarely as bad nor never as good as people remember. Absolutists are the worst and the reason why our society is filled with puddled brains.

[brandx]

I wasn't referring to world affairs. Simply the issue being discussed here - mental health. Any cursory look into the issue will show the effects of the changes made in the early '80s. The treatment model was completely changed.


But if you need to deflect to other issues, go ahead.

[Benny B]

I wasn't referring to world affairs. Simply the issue being discussed here - mental health. Any cursory look into the issue will show the effects of the changes made in the early '80s. The treatment model was completely changed.

But if you need to deflect to other issues, go ahead.

Everything changed in the 80s.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Did a bang up job too: invading irrelevant Caribbean islands, funding the Afghani mujahideen (we know what that led to), selling arms to a "mortal enemy" of the US, using those funds to sow unrepentant genocide in Central America, doubled the national debt (or is it tripled?), raised taxes nearly every year in office, unemployment skyrocketed during middle of his term, amnesty to undocumented immigrants, the excellent "war on drugs", etc.

Any other inventions of history or is that your exhaustive list?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I wasn't referring to world affairs. Simply the issue being discussed here - mental health. Any cursory look into the issue will show the effects of the changes made in the early '80s. The treatment model was completely changed.


But if you need to deflect to other issues, go ahead.

It was your friends on the left who insisted on de-institutionalizing deeply troubled people. Another liberal idea we're just supposed to move on from as if it didn't happen and hasn't had terrible social consequences.

[brandx]

It was your friends on the left who insisted on de-institutionalizing deeply troubled people. Another liberal idea we're just supposed to move on from as if it didn't happen and hasn't had terrible social consequences.

Make stuff up much?

When Reagan was elected President , he discarded a law proposed by Carter that would have continued funding federal community mental health centers. This basically eliminated services for people struggling with mental illness.

He had made similar decisions as governor of California, releasing more than half of the state’s mental hospital patients and passing a law that abolished involuntary hospitalization of people struggling with mental illness. This started a national trend of de-institutionalization.

In other words, if you are struggling with mental illness, we can only help you if you ask for it. But, isn’t one of the characteristics of severe mental illness not having an accurate sense of reality? Doesn’t that mean a person may not even realize he or she is mentally ill?

There seems to be a correlation between the de-institutionalization of mental health patients in the early 1980s and the significant number of homelessness agencies created in the mid-to-late 1980s.

It’s ironic that a president who made such sweeping decisions affecting Americans with mental health issues ultimately came face-to-face with the dangers of untreated mental illness -  John Hinckley Jr., a man suffering from severe personality disorders.

Where has Hinckley been for the last 30 years? In a psychiatric hospital. How many people living on the streets today would also be safer and better cared for in an institutional setting.

And how much safer would WE be?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

My God you are retarded. Do you have any actual thoughts of your own, or, God forbid, research, or are you only smart enough to copy and paste from editorials of Huffington Post writers?

http://www.povertyinsights.org/2013/10/14/did-reagans-crazy-mental-health-policies-cause-todays-homelessness/

[Henry Sugar]

Everything changed in the 80s.

Ninjas and cocaine will do that.

[brandx]

My God you are retarded. Do you have any actual thoughts of your own, or, God forbid, research, or are you only smart enough to copy and paste from editorials of Huffington Post writers?

http://www.povertyinsights.org/2013/10/14/did-reagans-crazy-mental-health-policies-cause-todays-homelessness/

And as you Reaganites love to do - just keep re-writing history. Do it often enough and maybe someone will believe you. There is a long documented history of Reagan's policy on the mentally ill. Even someone like you should be able to do the research.

Maybe you can also re-write history on his approach to AIDS and selling weapons to terrorists while you're at it.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

And as you Reaganites love to do - just keep re-writing history. Do it often enough and maybe someone will believe you. There is a long documented history of Reagan's policy on the mentally ill. Even someone like you should be able to do the research.

Maybe you can also re-write history on his approach to AIDS and selling weapons to terrorists while you're at it.

I actually did the research. Ten minutes of google discovers the real truth of this. But, as a fraudulent liberal, you'll never do the research yourself and never admit that you're wrong, because you couldn't care less about the truth.

What's really pathetic is that you can't admit how much your own BFF's on the left have contributed to this situation. You can't own up to it because your side never has the balls to admit when it makes catastrophic mistakes, whether it's Vietnam or mental health.

[jficke13]

that really escalated quickly.

[jficke13]

At the risk of bringing some kind of citation to this knife fight:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/134834968.html

Seems like a decent timeline of what happened when.

[jficke13]

And lets not ignore Wisconsin's special place in the systemic failure of mental health management in this country:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/law-creates-barriers-to-getting-care-for-mentally-ill-135387808.html

No the fact that, as always, it's the lawyers' fault is not lost on me.

[Golden Avalanche]

Any other inventions of history or is that your exhaustive list?

If those events didn't happen in your life, I want whatever hallucinogen you've been happily ingesting the last 35 years. Some pretty magical $hit.

[MU82]

And as you Reaganites love to do - just keep re-writing history. Do it often enough and maybe someone will believe you. There is a long documented history of Reagan's policy on the mentally ill. Even someone like you should be able to do the research.

Maybe you can also re-write history on his approach to AIDS and selling weapons to terrorists while you're at it.

Ah, the Gipper.

Raised the debt ceiling 18 times. Raised taxes 11 times. Reached over the aisle to work with Tip O'Neill.

Would be labeled big-time RINO by the current GOP and would be ripped to pieces by the Tea Party.

It's nice how time has made him a right-wing hero.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ah, the Gipper.

Raised the debt ceiling 18 times. Raised taxes 11 times. Reached over the aisle to work with Tip O'Neill.

Would be labeled big-time RINO by the current GOP and would be ripped to pieces by the Tea Party.

It's nice how time has made him a right-wing hero.

Went to war with a country that didn't attack us.

Lowered taxes at the time the largest tax decrease in American history.

Wanted a balanced budget and reduce the debt.

Strong on the military

"I do not believe that Washington should do for the people what they can do for themselves through local and private effort”

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"



JFK would be considered a right wing whacko by democrats today.  It's nice how time has made him a left-wing hero today

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.

[Henry Sugar]

In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.

If you find yourself wondering where to discuss politics on the internet, just ask any MUScoop moderator, we'd be happy to help.