Tony Gwynn has passed away. World class guy

[ChicosBailBonds]

Very sad.  My favorite ball player growing up and an absolute gem of a person if you ever had a chance to meet him.  Many don't know what a pretty good basketball player he was as he played guard for San Diego State.

Very sad.  Phenomenal hitter, better person.

[keefe]

Very sad.  My favorite ball player growing up and an absolute gem of a person if you ever had a chance to meet him.  Many don't know what a pretty good basketball player he was as he played guard for San Diego State.

Very sad.  Phenomenal hitter, better person.

Didn't hear that but he was a great ball player and superb individual.

[NersEllenson]

Very sad.  My favorite ball player growing up and an absolute gem of a person if you ever had a chance to meet him.  Many don't know what a pretty good basketball player he was as he played guard for San Diego State.

Very sad.  Phenomenal hitter, better person.

Wow...had he been having health issues?  Always seemed to be a class act.

[MDMU04]

He had salivary gland cancer. Too much dip during his playing days. Too bad, he was really one of the good ones.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wow...had he been having health issues?  Always seemed to be a class act.

Had cancer part of his cheek had to be removed.  Was making a recovery, but then it came back.  Very sad, terrific man. 

Was two time all conference basketball player at San Diego State.  If I recall, drafted by the Clippers.  Obviously one of the greatest baseball hitters ever. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Stat


Hit safely in 75% of the MLB games he played in.  Think about that.

[Benny B]

Stat


Hit safely in 75% of the MLB games he played in.  Think about that.

Considering the duration his career, that's Ripkenesque right there.

[Lennys Tap]

Tony Gwynn was one of the greatest AVERAGE hitters of all time. If power and runs produced count I think he probably moves down to about 50.

[buckchuckler]

Don't remember the numbers exactly, but I heard he faced Maddox about 107 times had 45 ish hits and never struck out. 

He also was a career .302 hitter ---- with 2 strikes.  Simply amazing. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gwynn was not asked to be a power hitter.  I remember an interview with Ted Williams saying if Gwynn wanted to hit 35 homeruns a year, he could easily but that is not what he was asked to do.  Gwynn still managed to get 17 and I think a few at 14 or 15.  Over 1100 RBIs in his career and played on some piss poor Padres teams over the years.

[wadesworld]

Cancer sucks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Don't remember the numbers exactly, but I heard he faced Maddox about 107 times had 45 ish hits and never struck out. 

He also was a career .302 hitter ---- with 2 strikes.  Simply amazing. 

Actually .335 hitter with 2 strikes according to ESPN tonight

[Lennys Tap]

Gwynn was not asked to be a power hitter.  I remember an interview with Ted Williams saying if Gwynn wanted to hit 35 homeruns a year, he could easily but that is not what he was asked to do.  Gwynn still managed to get 17 and I think a few at 14 or 15.  Over 1100 RBIs in his career and played on some piss poor Padres teams over the years.

Loved him as a player. Loved him as a person. And he was a great hitter. But c'mon. A guy who averaged 8 HRs and 70 RBIs a year could have easily hit 35 a year but he didn't because he was not asked to? He left nearly 500 HRs and maybe 800 RBIs on the table because he wasn't asked to be a power hitter? He chose to be Wade Boggs rather than Willie Mays? Because that's what he and the Padres preferred? Somewhere Tony Gwynn is having a good laugh.

[MUfan12]

Very sad.  My favorite ball player growing up and an absolute gem of a person if you ever had a chance to meet him.  Many don't know what a pretty good basketball player he was as he played guard for San Diego State.

Very sad.  Phenomenal hitter, better person.

This is a great read from Deadspin- http://deadspin.com/i-was-tony-gwynns-bat-boy-1592123043?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[CTWarrior]

Gwynn was not asked to be a power hitter.  I remember an interview with Ted Williams saying if Gwynn wanted to hit 35 homeruns a year, he could easily but that is not what he was asked to do.  Gwynn still managed to get 17 and I think a few at 14 or 15.  Over 1100 RBIs in his career and played on some piss poor Padres teams over the years.

Jack Clark - .136 Runs per plate appearance in MLB, .143 RBIs per PA.  Career OBP .379, Career SLG .476
Tony Gwynn - .135 Runs per PA, .111 RBI per PA, career OBP .388, career SLG .459.

Jack Clark and Tony Gwynn were equally valuable major league hitters (though Clark probably more valuable), though hardly anyone can see it because of .338 BA vs .267 BA.  I am using Clark as an example because nobody considers him an all-time great hitter, but he was every bit as good, probably better, at putting runs on the scoreboard than was Gwynn.  Gwynn was by all accounts a wonderful man, but overrated as a hitter, because he didn't walk a ton so his OBPs weren't as great as you'd expect and too big a chunk of his batting average was singles.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Loved him as a player. Loved him as a person. And he was a great hitter. But c'mon. A guy who averaged 8 HRs and 70 RBIs a year could have easily hit 35 a year but he didn't because he was not asked to? He left nearly 500 HRs and maybe 800 RBIs on the table because he wasn't asked to be a power hitter? He chose to be Wade Boggs rather than Willie Mays? Because that's what he and the Padres preferred? Somewhere Tony Gwynn is having a good laugh.

I'm not going to question what Ted Williams said.  Mike Matheny last night on ESPN said one of the greatest displays of power he ever saw was from Tony Gwynn.  Also said he was capable of hitting many more homeruns if he had chosen to, but set the table for his teammates behind him.  Lilliquist said something similar.

In 1997, Gwynn had 13 home runs by the All Star break, using a heavier bat than he normally used.  He went back to his lighter bat (lightest in baseball) and not surprisingly the HR's went down.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jack Clark - .136 Runs per plate appearance in MLB, .143 RBIs per PA.  Career OBP .379, Career SLG .476
Tony Gwynn - .135 Runs per PA, .111 RBI per PA, career OBP .388, career SLG .459.

Jack Clark and Tony Gwynn were equally valuable major league hitters (though Clark probably more valuable), though hardly anyone can see it because of .338 BA vs .267 BA.  I am using Clark as an example because nobody considers him an all-time great hitter, but he was every bit as good, probably better, at putting runs on the scoreboard than was Gwynn.  Gwynn was by all accounts a wonderful man, but overrated as a hitter, because he didn't walk a ton so his OBPs weren't as great as you'd expect and too big a chunk of his batting average was singles.

Tony Gwynn batted 2nd for most of his career.  When you bat 2nd, you don't get a lot of RBI opportunities.  Your first at bat, at best, is a chance at 2 RBIs, but that is rare.  In subsequent at bats, you are trailing the 8, 9, 1 hitters...again, not good RBI potential.  Your job is to get on base.

Jack Clark batted 3rd or 4th.  Gwynn got on base, the guys behind him supposed to knock him in.  Let's reverse rolls, if Tony Gwynn was batting 3rd or 4th with guys on base vs Jack Clark batting second, how would they do?

It's about opportunity and what you are asked to do.  Mike Trout right now is batting 2nd.  If he was batting 3rd or 4th, his numbers would be off the charts, but they are asking him to hit 2nd for a reason right now.  Fewer opportunities for him, more opportunities for the team, however.

[GGGG]

I'm not going to question what Ted Williams said.  Mike Matheny last night on ESPN said one of the greatest displays of power he ever saw was from Tony Gwynn.  Also said he was capable of hitting many more homeruns if he had chosen to, but set the table for his teammates behind him.  Lilliquist said something similar.

Just heard a radio interview with a Padres beat writer from the time who said the same thing. 

[GGGG]

Jack Clark - .136 Runs per plate appearance in MLB, .143 RBIs per PA.  Career OBP .379, Career SLG .476
Tony Gwynn - .135 Runs per PA, .111 RBI per PA, career OBP .388, career SLG .459.

Jack Clark and Tony Gwynn were equally valuable major league hitters (though Clark probably more valuable), though hardly anyone can see it because of .338 BA vs .267 BA.  I am using Clark as an example because nobody considers him an all-time great hitter, but he was every bit as good, probably better, at putting runs on the scoreboard than was Gwynn.  Gwynn was by all accounts a wonderful man, but overrated as a hitter, because he didn't walk a ton so his OBPs weren't as great as you'd expect and too big a chunk of his batting average was singles.

Gwynn:  .338/.388/.459   OPS: .847
Clark:  .267/.379/.476  OPS:  .854

Jack Clark walked A LOT.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm a big fan of advanced stats...

HOWEVER, I think that it's hard to critique a guy(s) who followed a more conventional hitting approach in the past.

Kirby Puckett and Tony Gwynn got paid for HITS and AVERAGE, not OBP and BB's. Right or wrong, those 2 guys (maybe more than anybody in recent memory) were guys who were trying to get HITS every time up.

Don't strike out.
Walks are ok.
Hits are the best.

That's what everybody was doing, and Tony was the best at it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://deadspin.com/i-was-tony-gwynns-bat-boy-1592123043


More world classiness

[CTWarrior]

Tony Gwynn batted 2nd for most of his career.  When you bat 2nd, you don't get a lot of RBI opportunities.  Your first at bat, at best, is a chance at 2 RBIs, but that is rare.  In subsequent at bats, you are trailing the 8, 9, 1 hitters...again, not good RBI potential.  Your job is to get on base.

Jack Clark batted 3rd or 4th.  Gwynn got on base, the guys behind him supposed to knock him in.  Let's reverse rolls, if Tony Gwynn was batting 3rd or 4th with guys on base vs Jack Clark batting second, how would they do?

It's about opportunity and what you are asked to do.  Mike Trout right now is batting 2nd.  If he was batting 3rd or 4th, his numbers would be off the charts, but they are asking him to hit 2nd for a reason right now.  Fewer opportunities for him, more opportunities for the team, however.

But Clark had lesser hitters batting behind him and he scored as often as Gwynn.  Gwynn had 3-4-5 hitters after him and Clark had 5-6-7.  Bottom line is that a lineup of 9 Jack Clarks would score more runs than a lineup of 9 Tony Gwynns.

[GGGG]

It's simply the romantic allegiance to a statistic that over time has been shown to not be as valuable as another. 

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not going to question what Ted Williams said.  Mike Matheny last night on ESPN said one of the greatest displays of power he ever saw was from Tony Gwynn.  Also said he was capable of hitting many more homeruns if he had chosen to, but set the table for his teammates behind him.  Lilliquist said something similar.

In 1997, Gwynn had 13 home runs by the All Star break, using a heavier bat than he normally used.  He went back to his lighter bat (lightest in baseball) and not surprisingly the HR's went down.   

I don't know if your Ted Williams quote is accurate ("Tony Gwynn could have EASILY hit 35 HRs a year) or if there was context that you're omitting, but if Tony Gwynn hit 500 less home runs in his career on purpose then Tony Gwynn is the dumbest player ever to put on a pair of spikes.

I can see the wheels grinding : Hmm...I could hit a home run and win the game right here, but I'm going to hit a single to "set the table" for my teammates instead. BS. Look, I've got nothing against Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs. Great hitters, Hall of Famers. But nobody, at least nobody with one functioning brain cell, chooses to be Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs if they could be Willie Mays or Ted Williams. I don't care who allegedly said it. If they did, it was dumb.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But Clark had lesser hitters batting behind him and he scored as often as Gwynn.  Gwynn had 3-4-5 hitters after him and Clark had 5-6-7.  Bottom line is that a lineup of 9 Jack Clarks would score more runs than a lineup of 9 Tony Gwynns.

Just so I have this straight, are you suggesting that the guys hitting behind Gwynn during his career were equal to those hitting behind Clark in his career?

That's the argument you are making.  I think you will find with very little effort that is not a strong argument on your part.


Clark played 3 years in the AL, with no pitchers hitting in front of him like Gwynn had to constantly.  Clark had in some years major talent hitting behind him in the 4, 5, 6 slots.  Gwynn's hitters behind him for most years are pedestrian.  Not all years, but the teams for which the two played for are not a good comparison.

Clark played for the Cardinals, Yankees, Giants, Red Sox.

Gwynn played for the Padres, a team that has historically been poor minus a few magical seasons.