Gonzaga Reportedly Was Waiting for Big East Invite

[Aughnanure]

http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/arts_and_entertainment/article_d7f046c0-c5df-11e3-be30-001a4bcf6878.html?TNNoMobile

2. As we head into the The Summer of Conference Realignment, Part 2: One Year Later, it’s becoming clearer that GU isn’t going anywhere.

But Roth says it’s not his fault.  When the Big East Conference reformed in July 2013, he had GU Athletics ready to move to the new Big East along with the other “Catholic Seven” schools. He recognized that GU would be a perfect fit in every way with the other private, Catholic, similar-size, liberal arts schools from that conference.

One single problem threw a wrench in the gears: geography. As much as a program can request to join a conference, it eventually has to be invited by the conference, Roth said.  Unfortunately for GU, the Big East programs were not willing to fly their sports teams five or six hours to Spokane dozens of times every year, even if Roth was.

Roth says he likes to say that the only way GU would be accepted into the Big East is if teleportation is invented.

Anytime teleportation enters a discussion of conference realignment, things aren’t looking good.
And with a lack of a football team and no foreseeable way GU could re-establish its football program, don’t expect the Pac-12 to come calling, either.

For now, GU looks to be stuck in the ho-hum WCC. While it won’t do us any favors in terms of men’s or women’s basketball, at least the Zags won’t be constantly flying to the Northeast for every away game. That might qualify as low-level silver lining.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As was argued here many times over, geography is and will always be the main issue.  I hope GU admins weren't seriously think the Big East was going to ask them for an invite based on their locale.

Location, location, location.

[Aughnanure]

As was argued here many times over, geography is and will always be the main issue.  I hope GU admins weren't seriously think the Big East was going to ask them for an invite based on their locale.

Location, location, location.

Actually, I think it's about flying into Spokane vs a major city. Hard to fly Olympic sports in on commercial jets. Basketball travel is not a problem.

[GGGG]

I thought keefe said that Gonzaga had the invitation but turned it down.  Hmmmm....

[Coleman]

As was argued here many times over, geography is and will always be the main issue.  I hope GU admins weren't seriously think the Big East was going to ask them for an invite based on their locale.

Location, location, location.

Yeah but everyone here was saying Gonzaga didn't want to do it because of geography..

As I had always said, Gonzaga would have signed up in a heartbeat. The Big East should have got it done. It was a much bigger burden for the Zags to travel east every other game than for every other school to travel West once a season for each sport. If they were willing to take on that burden, there was no reason for them not to join, as far as the rest of the Big East is concerned. Lost opportunity.

[chapman]

Roth says he likes to say that the only way GU would be accepted into the Big East is if teleportation is invented.

Glad to see they anticipated my comment.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/arts_and_entertainment/article_d7f046c0-c5df-11e3-be30-001a4bcf6878.html?TNNoMobile

2. As we head into the The Summer of Conference Realignment, Part 2: One Year Later, it’s becoming clearer that GU isn’t going anywhere.

But Roth says it’s not his fault.  When the Big East Conference reformed in July 2013, he had GU Athletics ready to move to the new Big East along with the other “Catholic Seven” schools. He recognized that GU would be a perfect fit in every way with the other private, Catholic, similar-size, liberal arts schools from that conference.

One single problem threw a wrench in the gears: geography. As much as a program can request to join a conference, it eventually has to be invited by the conference, Roth said.  Unfortunately for GU, the Big East programs were not willing to fly their sports teams five or six hours to Spokane dozens of times every year, even if Roth was.

Roth says he likes to say that the only way GU would be accepted into the Big East is if teleportation is invented.

Anytime teleportation enters a discussion of conference realignment, things aren’t looking good.
And with a lack of a football team and no foreseeable way GU could re-establish its football program, don’t expect the Pac-12 to come calling, either.

For now, GU looks to be stuck in the ho-hum WCC. While it won’t do us any favors in terms of men’s or women’s basketball, at least the Zags won’t be constantly flying to the Northeast for every away game. That might qualify as low-level silver lining.

This sort of shifts the blame a bit. Gonzaga could have joined. The BEast was willing to make them a basketball only member. But Gonzaga wanted the all or nothing deal. If Gonzaga is willing to park their non-revenue sports in the WCC or some other terrible conference and fly out for bball games, they will be able to join.

[GGGG]

This sort of shifts the blame a bit. Gonzaga could have joined. The BEast was willing to make them a basketball only member. But Gonzaga wanted the all or nothing deal. If Gonzaga is willing to park their non-revenue sports in the WCC or some other terrible conference and fly out for bball games, they will be able to join.

Why would the WCC take them without basketball?  What conference would?

[Aughnanure]

This sort of shifts the blame a bit. Gonzaga could have joined. The BEast was willing to make them a basketball only member. But Gonzaga wanted the all or nothing deal. If Gonzaga is willing to park their non-revenue sports in the WCC or some other terrible conference and fly out for bball games, they will be able to join.

Im 99.99% sure there's an NCAA rule that prevents that. Your basketball conference has to be the main conference for all of your sports.

[Coleman]

This sort of shifts the blame a bit. Gonzaga could have joined. The BEast was willing to make them a basketball only member. But Gonzaga wanted the all or nothing deal. If Gonzaga is willing to park their non-revenue sports in the WCC or some other terrible conference and fly out for bball games, they will be able to join.

Why wouldn't the Big East take them as full member?

The burden of travel due to geography is overwhelmingly on Gonzaga. I just don't understand this argument.

You are talking one event per sport per year (at most) that would require a trip to Spokane. And men's and women's teams could travel together, or even schools like DePaul and Marquette could travel together.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

The only way Gonzaga joins the Big East is if there is a mass expansion into the west.  Perhaps manifest destiny will propel the Big East to new heights if they add 6-8 teams from the West - creating a new Western division.  It truly would be the first conference to span the whole United States, thus having the largest TV market.  It wouldn't be hard to balance travel schedules out and if schools are concerned with travel, then schedule out of conference games that are closer to home to balance out long west/east coast road trips.

[Coleman]

The only way Gonzaga joins the Big East is if there is a mass expansion into the west.  Perhaps manifest destiny will propel the Big East to new heights if they add 6-8 teams from the West - creating a new Western division.  It truly would be the first conference to span the whole United States, thus having the largest TV market.  It wouldn't be hard to balance travel schedules out and if schools are concerned with travel, then schedule out of conference games that are closer to home to balance out long west/east coast road trips.

I like the vision, but the problem is...who do you add?

Who fits the profile out west, besides Gonzaga?

Sure, SLU is west of the Mississippi, but barely. Do you take St. Mary's from the WCC?

Beyond that, I'm not sure who is left.

[Aughnanure]

The only way Gonzaga joins the Big East is if there is a mass expansion into the west.  Perhaps manifest destiny will propel the Big East to new heights if they add 6-8 teams from the West - creating a new Western division.  It truly would be the first conference to span the whole United States, thus having the largest TV market.  It wouldn't be hard to balance travel schedules out and if schools are concerned with travel, then schedule out of conference games that are closer to home to balance out long west/east coast road trips.

Jesus Christ no, 6 freaking teams out west!? There simply isn't enough quality outside the Zags unless UNLV and BYU would want to come and then maybe you can add a mediocre 4th team (San Fran?)

[Coleman]

Jesus Christ no, 6 freaking teams out west!? There simply isn't enough quality outside the Zags unless UNLV and BYU would want to come and then maybe you can add a mediocre 4th team (San Fran?)

I like UNLV and BYU, but don't they both have FBS football? Isn't that a disqualifier?

[GGGG]

I like UNLV and BYU, but don't they both have FBS football? Isn't that a disqualifier?

BYU is independent in football and are currently WCC members.

Really what we are talking about is a merger between the BE and the WCC.  And that doesn't do the BE any good.  Gonzaga isn't worth it.  Hell, the BE doesn't think they are worth it on their own.

[Aughnanure]

I like UNLV and BYU, but don't they both have FBS football? Isn't that a disqualifier?

Well that's why it would be extremely unlikely. BYU is already in the WCC with Gonzaga actually and stores its football as an independent like Notre Dame. I could maybe see Big East adding both of them, but outside that...who are you really going to add that doesn't water down the conference?

[Coleman]

This is a possibility (however unlikely)... 14 teams. 7 in the East, 7 in the West

East Division
Providence
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Dayton
Xavier

West Division
Marquette
Butler
DePaul
SLU
Creighton
Gonzaga
BYU

[GGGG]

Yuck.  9:30 PM start times.  No thanks.

[Aughnanure]

This is a possibility (however unlikely)... 15 teams. 7 in the East, 8 in the West

East Division
Providence
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Dayton
Xavier

West Division
Marquette
Butler
SLU
Creighton
Gonzaga
BYU
UNLV
St. Mary's

Did we kick out DePaul, and why would we want that? Marquette becomes a west coast school almost. Imagine the game times!

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Yes, it will be difficult to add great teams, unless you poach them from bigger conferences.  

The thing I never understood about football is, why not separate basketball from football?  If you can send your bball team to a conference that generates more revenue, then go for it.  

[Aughnanure]

Yuck.  9:30 PM start times.  No thanks.

More like 11:30 for road games.

[Coleman]

Did we kick out DePaul, and why would we want that? Marquette becomes a west coast school almost. Imagine the game times!

Whoops. Missed them. Fixed it. Booted out UNLV for DePaul

[Les Nessman]

Why wouldn't the Big East take them as full member?

The burden of travel due to geography is overwhelmingly on Gonzaga. I just don't understand this argument.

You are talking one event per sport per year (at most) that would require a trip to Spokane. And men's and women's teams could travel together, or even schools like DePaul and Marquette could travel together.

Two schools traveling together wouldn't work at all. They'd have to travel together first of all, and then have to spend 4-5 days out in Spokane waiting for both teams to finish playing their games before flying back. The lodging for the extra days in Spokane would negate any discount that the teams would get by flying together.

[Aughnanure]

Yes, it will be difficult to add great teams, unless you poach them from bigger conferences.  

The thing I never understood about football is, why not separate basketball from football?  If you can send your bball team to a conference that generates more revenue, then go for it.  

Because it's an NCAA rule. Can't be in a conference JUST for basketball.

[Coleman]

More like 11:30 for road games.

No, it would be 9:30.

I wouldn't want it either. I'm just having a thought experiment here.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I miss the days where conferences actually reflected the member schools that were aligned.  Today, the BIG 10 has 12 members (about to be 14).  The Big XII has 10 members.  The Atlantic Coast Conference has roots in the Midwest.  

At least the PAC-12 has shifted it's name to reflect the number of schools involved.

[Aughnanure]

No, it would be 9:30.

I wouldn't want it either. I'm just having a thought experiment here.

But not every west coast game is gonna be at 7. Just an 8:00 tip would be 10 in Central and 11 in Eastern.

[Coleman]

But not every west coast game is gonna be at 7. Just an 8:00 tip would be 10 in Central and 11 in Eastern.

By the way, we are talking about literally one game a year.

BYU is one hour behind. Gonzaga would be the only Pacific time zone road game in the 14 team scenario I just laid out.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I like UNLV and BYU, but don't they both have FBS football? Isn't that a disqualifier?

UNLV couldn't come. D1 football and terrible academics. BYU is independent in football and could possibly work.

I don't think there is enough quality bball only teams out west. Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, BYU, Denver, San Fran, Loyola Marymount, San Diego, and Long Beach State are the only possibles I can think of. A lot of those are stretches.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Because it's an NCAA rule. Can't be in a conference JUST for basketball.

Notre Dame does it ....
Villanova and Gtown do it ....
Several others do it as well ....

[Aughnanure]

Notre Dame does it ....
Villanova and Gtown do it ....
Several others do it as well ....

What are you talking about? The rule is the conference you play basketball in has to be the main conference for your athletic program. It's not a rule for football or other oddly-aligned sports like hockey and lacrosse.

Notre Dame is in the ACC for all their sports except football. Don't know what you're talking about for Georgetown and Villanova. Their non-D1 football programs?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Notre Dame does it ....
Villanova and Gtown do it ....
Several others do it as well ....

They put their football programs in other conferences. Their basketball programs are with their olympic sports. I don't understand why there is a difference but some posters are saying that NCAA rules require bball programs to remain with olympic sports.

[VegasWarrior77]

UNLV couldn't come. D1 football and terrible academics. BYU is independent in football and could possibly work.

I don't think there is enough quality bball only teams out west. Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, BYU, Denver, San Fran, Loyola Marymount, San Diego, and Long Beach State are the only possibles I can think of. A lot of those are stretches.

UNLV's football team just got the one year bowl ban for bad grades.  Right after they had made a bowl game this past year for the first time in many years.

[GGGG]

Two schools traveling together wouldn't work at all. They'd have to travel together first of all, and then have to spend 4-5 days out in Spokane waiting for both teams to finish playing their games before flying back. The lodging for the extra days in Spokane would negate any discount that the teams would get by flying together.

Not only that, but you know that DePaul would cheapen out on the juice boxes when it's their year to supply the snacks.

Seriously we fly charter.  We are a big time program.  Why would we need to fly to Spokane with another school?

[GGGG]

UNLV's football team just got the one year bowl ban for bad grades.  Right after they had made a bowl game this past year for the first time in many years.

UNLV...the UWM of college football.

[keefe]

I thought keefe said that Gonzaga had the invitation but turned it down.  Hmmmm....

I never said that. Quit making sh1t up.

GU was approached by several BE members to ascertain interest. GU set up a team to look at feasibility from many dimensions. And as I said a year ago, GU was interested but not convinced and not all BE members were on board due to geography. But GU had some powerful advocates in its corner within the BE.

Some suffer during Lent while others carry the Cross afterwards.

 

[MU82]

It's pretty simple:

If there were a way to get just Gonzaga basketball, it would be a distinct possibility. But as long as either NCAA rules, Gonzaga preferences or both mandate that the other sports also must be part of the conference, it's a non-starter.

[keefe]

As was argued here many times over, geography is and will always be the main issue.  I hope GU admins weren't seriously think the Big East was going to ask them for an invite based on their locale.

Location, location, location.

From what I heard location was the deal though not about basketball. Each BE team was willing to fly its men's hoops team out to the Can once a year. The resistance was for all of the other sports.

And as I said last year, the GU committee was modeling any number of ways to make something work. Obviously, in the end, there was no work around for Olympic sports.

[77ncaachamps]

As an MU fan in CA, I have to say NO to any expansion west.

It's not economically feasible.

And the last time Conference USA was tried, it didn't venture past the Rockies and almost folded in 6 years.

Not to mention that NOW it's more like Conference Southern USA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_usa

Look at those affiliates. Sheesh.

[GGGG]

I never said that. Quit making sh1t up.

GU was approached by several BE members to ascertain interest. GU set up a team to look at feasibility from many dimensions. And as I said a year ago, GU was interested but not convinced and not all BE members were on board due to geography. But GU had some powerful advocates in its corner within the BE.

Some suffer during Lent while others carry the Cross afterwards.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=35362.msg437542#msg437542

You said:  "I am not sure where they are at in their thinking but they have a firm offer to join."

So "a firm offer to join" doesn't mean they were invited?

[keefe]

Really what we are talking about is a merger between the BE and the WCC. 

As I mentioned last year one of the scenarios being investigated by GU was to identify other MST/PST partners to create a geographical Division construct. This included serious discussion with BYU and I am told Provo was in favor except for potential issues with their network and FSN.

[keefe]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=35362.msg437542#msg437542

You said:  "I am not sure where they are at in their thinking but they have a firm offer to join."

So "a firm offer to join" doesn't mean they were invited?

Read through all of my threads and you will see that my point is GU had solid endorsement within the BE for membership. I also point out that GU was looking for ways to make it work, for them and everyone in the BE.

The reality is, and what people do not know, is that the Gonzaga case ultimately came down to a power struggle between Marquette and Georgetown. For whatever reason, DeGioia either won this round or Pilarz decided this wasn't the right fight. And I also heard that the question has been tabled and not dismissed.

[bilsu]

I think Wichita St would be a more likely addition than BYU.

[GGGG]

Read through all of my threads and you will see that my point is GU had solid endorsement within the BE for membership. I also point out that GU was looking for ways to make it work, for them and everyone in the BE.

The reality is, and what people do not know, is that the Gonzaga case ultimately came down to a power struggle between Marquette and Georgetown. For whatever reason, DeGioia either won this round or Pilarz decided this wasn't the right fight. And I also heard that the question has been tabled and not dismissed.

Well I have no reason to doubt you, but you must admit that I wasn't "making sh!t up."  "Firm offer to join" means something pretty significant.

A "done deal" as it were.

[keefe]

Well I have no reason to doubt you, but you must admit that I wasn't "making sh!t up."  "Firm offer to join" means something pretty significant.

A "done deal" as it were.

GU had/s some strong backers within the BE who want them in. Still. But the reality is that this is about more than expanding westward, though that is significant. This is a struggle for the very soul of the conference.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Well I have no reason to doubt you, but you must admit that I wasn't "making sh!t up."  "Firm offer to join" means something pretty significant.

A "done deal" as it were.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, I think it's about flying into Spokane vs a major city. Hard to fly Olympic sports in on commercial jets. Basketball travel is not a problem.

It's not just about basketball, however....you have to deal with all of the other sports as well.  It's one thing if they joined for basketball only, but why would the WCC let them do that.  Thus, as a full fledged member you have soccer, volleyball, tennis, etc, etc to and from Spokane from places like New York, D.C, Philadelphia.  What's worse is the travels for the GU athletes.  Nightmare.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why wouldn't the Big East take them as full member?

The burden of travel due to geography is overwhelmingly on Gonzaga. I just don't understand this argument.

You are talking one event per sport per year (at most) that would require a trip to Spokane. And men's and women's teams could travel together, or even schools like DePaul and Marquette could travel together.

Big East might taken them as basketball only, but if I were the WCC I would tell them to pound sand if they thought they were just going to park the other sports there and take the trophy wife to another league.  That's the bigger issue.  It also opens up a huge can of worms for the Big East.  What if the ACC wanted G'Town just for hoops and you have that precedent going?  Etc, etc.  Just nota  good idea all the way around.

[ChicosBailBonds]

From what I heard location was the deal though not about basketball. Each BE team was willing to fly its men's hoops team out to the Can once a year. The resistance was for all of the other sports.

And as I said last year, the GU committee was modeling any number of ways to make something work. Obviously, in the end, there was no work around for Olympic sports.

Yup, totally makes sense.  Even worse for GU who would have to make multiple flights out back east.

[Jet915]

Read through all of my threads and you will see that my point is GU had solid endorsement within the BE for membership. I also point out that GU was looking for ways to make it work, for them and everyone in the BE.

The reality is, and what people do not know, is that the Gonzaga case ultimately came down to a power struggle between Marquette and Georgetown. For whatever reason, DeGioia either won this round or Pilarz decided this wasn't the right fight. And I also heard that the question has been tabled and not dismissed.

This makes some sense, I remember DeGioia was quoted in the paper prior to selecting teams that they were considering all teams up to the Missouri river.  That would count Gonzaga out.

If Gonzaga is ok with the travel, I think they should be added. It's such a bigger hassle for them than it would be for the other 10 teams. Even for the other sports like baseball, they aren't even playing home and homes so you would only be taking your baseball team to Spokane every other year. You can be smart with the scheduling and have the Gonzaga teams travel to the east coast once a year doing a 3 team swing. I'd love it if the Big East went big and added Gonzaga, SLU, BYU and Dayton. East coast schools would not want that though.

As for number of teams, I just think in the long run, 14 will be the number. Once you get to 12, you are already losing out on home/home series. At 14, you can spare the travel to Spokane for more teams while also increasing your chances for more NCAA bids. I know BYU can jump ship, you can have Richmond replace them. In the end, it's about how many NCAA bids your conference gets, no one cares how many teams are in the league. With this set of teams, we will average 6-7 bids a year easy.

[keefe]

This makes some sense, I remember DeGioia was quoted in the paper prior to selecting teams that they were considering all teams up to the Missouri river.  That would count Gonzaga out.

If Gonzaga is ok with the travel, I think they should be added. It's such a bigger hassle for them than it would be for the other 10 teams. Even for the other sports like baseball, they aren't even playing home and homes so you would only be taking your baseball team to Spokane every other year. You can be smart with the scheduling and have the Gonzaga teams travel to the east coast once a year doing a 3 team swing. I'd love it if the Big East went big and added Gonzaga, SLU, BYU and Dayton. East coast schools would not want that though.

As for number of teams, I just think in the long run, 14 will be the number. Once you get to 12, you are already losing out on home/home series. At 14, you can spare the travel to Spokane for more teams while also increasing your chances for more NCAA bids. I know BYU can jump ship, you can have Richmond replace them. In the end, it's about how many NCAA bids your conference gets, no one cares how many teams are in the league. With this set of teams, we will average 6-7 bids a year easy.

I had mentioned earlier that GU also opened up the aperture and modeled inclusion of several PST/MST schools including BYU, StM's, among others to form two 8-team divisions. This was opposed vehemently by the Georgetown faction. 

[GoldenWarrior11]

If the goal of the conference is elite basketball, then Gonzaga and VCU appear to put the top two on the list.  If institutional fits are at the top, then it's Saint Louis and Gonzaga.  If it's location (big cities), it's Saint Louis and Dayton.  If it's endowment, it's Richmond and Saint Louis. 

Saint Louis would appear to fit in the most criteria.  Gonzaga's only check is it's location.  If the schools feel that it's other positive attributes outweigh this, then an invitation will eventually be in order.  I think it's a tough sell however.

[Aughnanure]

No, it would be 9:30.

I wouldn't want it either. I'm just having a thought experiment here.

I think I was referencing Mike Deane's suggestion of some 4-6 team westward expansion.

[Anti-Dentite]

If the goal of the conference is elite basketball, then Gonzaga and VCU appear to put the top two on the list.  If institutional fits are at the top, then it's Saint Louis and Gonzaga.  If it's location (big cities), it's Saint Louis and Dayton.  If it's endowment, it's Richmond and Saint Louis. 

Saint Louis would appear to fit in the most criteria.  Gonzaga's only check is it's location.  If the schools feel that it's other positive attributes outweigh this, then an invitation will eventually be in order.  I think it's a tough sell however.

Georgetown is opposed to Richmond, infringing their territory.

[Aughnanure]

Georgetown is opposed to Richmond, infringing their territory.

I thought the rumor was they were oppossed to VCU and wanted Richmond instead. Didn't want to let a big "state school" start competing with them. Richmond is rich, high academics, draws a lot of kids from the Northeast, and wouldn't challenge Georgetown territory.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Richmond doesn't have that successful basketball program history, however.  If they wanted to bump a bit of that $1 billion endowment into their athletics programs, I'm sure the other schools wouldn't mind.

Unless another private, eastern-based, school goes on a run in the next few years, I'd say Saint Louis and Dayton are in the driver's seat.

[Anti-Dentite]

Richmond doesn't have that successful basketball program history, however.  If they wanted to bump a bit of that $1 billion endowment into their athletics programs, I'm sure the other schools wouldn't mind.

Unless another private, eastern-based, school goes on a run in the next few years, I'd say Saint Louis and Dayton are in the driver's seat.

Yep.

[GGGG]

I thought the rumor was they were oppossed to VCU and wanted Richmond instead.

I know they are opposed to VCU...but I don't know if they are necessarily pro Richmond.  That was floated out there.

[Coleman]

This makes some sense, I remember DeGioia was quoted in the paper prior to selecting teams that they were considering all teams up to the Missouri river.  That would count Gonzaga out.

If Gonzaga is ok with the travel, I think they should be added. It's such a bigger hassle for them than it would be for the other 10 teams. Even for the other sports like baseball, they aren't even playing home and homes so you would only be taking your baseball team to Spokane every other year. You can be smart with the scheduling and have the Gonzaga teams travel to the east coast once a year doing a 3 team swing. I'd love it if the Big East went big and added Gonzaga, SLU, BYU and Dayton. East coast schools would not want that though.

As for number of teams, I just think in the long run, 14 will be the number. Once you get to 12, you are already losing out on home/home series. At 14, you can spare the travel to Spokane for more teams while also increasing your chances for more NCAA bids. I know BYU can jump ship, you can have Richmond replace them. In the end, it's about how many NCAA bids your conference gets, no one cares how many teams are in the league. With this set of teams, we will average 6-7 bids a year easy.

Agree with everything you've said.

14 is the number. I really like the four you listed.

[Aughnanure]

I know they are opposed to VCU...but I don't know if they are necessarily pro Richmond.  That was floated out there.

True, I thought sentiment was that was their preference over VCU. Not necessarily that they wanted VCU but if a school in Richmond was getting in, it was going to be Richmond.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Dayton is not on the list, at all. Not being considered. The only people who think they are on the list are Dayton fans.

VCU, Richmond, SLU, Gonzaga, and BYU were on the original list. Wichita State has been added to the conversation. Dayton brings the conference absolutely nothing other than a rivalry with Xavier. FS1 is not going to pony up more money for Dayton. They probably won't pony up more for Richmond or SLU either. They will for VCU, Gonzaga, BYU and maybe Wichita State.

[Coleman]

Dayton is not on the list, at all. Not being considered. The only people who think they are on the list are Dayton fans.

VCU, Richmond, SLU, Gonzaga, and BYU were on the original list. Wichita State has been added to the conversation. Dayton brings the conference absolutely nothing other than a rivalry with Xavier. FS1 is not going to pony up more money for Dayton. They probably won't pony up more for Richmond or SLU either. They will for VCU, Gonzaga, BYU and maybe Wichita State.

Maybe that was the original list, but that was also before a Dayton Elite 8 appearance.

I'm not saying they are the best pick. I'd rather have  SLU, Gonzaga and BYU. But they don't bring nothing to the conference. Its an entirely different media market.

I still think if you add four, you add Dayton, SLU, Gonzaga and BYU. If Gonzaga can't work then you add VCU instead. But Dayton would be a fine addition, if part of that larger four.