Another shooting on campus

[Lennys Tap]

Yeah, spending years in 3rd world countries, having my mom have to barricade us in a tiny apartment in Panama as a man with a machete tries to take down the door and do who knows what to her and us.  I could go on, but you seem to know so much about me.

You've told this story multiple times. Something bad might have happened to you once 35 years ago - but it didn't. May be time to get over it.

[Lennys Tap]

Haven't really read everything in great detail, but I did have a relatively interesting(to me anyway) and simple question.

Let's look at two rights in the US....gun ownership and voting.  Both are constitutionally protected, however it seems often that someone who is all for restricting gun ownership is against any restriction on voting and then vice versa.  Someone has to go through a background check and show ID to get a gun, but such requirements are heralded as fascist when applied to voting.  Those who are pro-gun want to force checks on US citizens to prove they are who they are before electing their leaders but chafe under the requirement that they verify that they meet the standards dictated by law to own a gun.

Why the two standards?

I have no problems with voter ID laws. I'm for them, think there a good idea. But I've seen no evidence pointing to extensive vote fraud in this country. How many elections have been stolen in the last 20 years? Don't think it's quite the problem gun violence is here.

[tower912]

Making voting easier should be the goal.   The amount of proven voter fraud is miniscule.   The number of gun-related homicides and suicides is not.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

You've told this story multiple times. Something bad might have happened to you once 35 years ago - but it didn't. May be time to get over it.

Uhm, when someone says I had a silver spoon in my mouth and knows nothing about my early upbringing, including that event....it puts things in context.

You're unnatural carnal knowledgeing damn right I'm going to bring it up and my mom and her kids will NEVER get over it.  That's not something you get over.  Maybe next time someone doesn't say I grew up with a silver spoon in my mouth without knowing someone's history.  You can get over your unnatural carnal knowledgeing self

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Dude a fetus is essentially a ball of mush.

You seem like a disturbed person. Please get help.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Want sympathy? I'll give you about as much as you clearly have for rape victims getting an abortion, or the thousands who died from back alley abortions, or the unfortunate women who make that choice. 

You have no idea the sympathy or exceptions I place on abortion, you just decided you knew. 

The thousands that died in back alley abortions...do you have some data on this...sounds awfully contrived to serve an agenda.

[Bocephys]

[ChicosBailBonds]

Because of Connecticut law and the sequence of events, the thought is he would have been stopped here.  This ran in yesterday's New Haven Register.

Elliot Rodger likely would have been stopped in Connecticut, state official says
http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20140527/elliot-rodger-likely-would-have-been-stopped-in-connecticut-state-official-says

The Sheriff in California was called at the behest of his mother for a video he posted a month ago.  Without that call or tip, the Sheriffs don't even talk to the kid, let alone decide to search his home.  That's my point, say this same kid did exactly the same thing except didn't leave any hints on facebook for his mom to call the Sheriff?  Nothing changes....regardless of the so called "tougher" laws.  What this guy in CT is arguing is that because the mother called about concerns for her son, under the laws in that state they MAY have able to go in and check on his weapons.  Totally reliant on the mom calling or someone calling ahead of time.  Take it further, say they went in and his guns were there and he had a bunch of rounds of ammunition.  Has he committed a crime? 

The common sense laws that people are talking about, in this example, wouldn't have changed anything.  What's even more, with each one of these things people get smarter.  The next guy isn't going to leave bread crumbs on facebook until he's walking out the door, and certainly not a month in advance. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This went south in a hurry.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dude a fetus is essentially a ball of mush. And I'd like to say that you're quick to point out this hypocrisy but it's only a hypocrisy if someone follows your beliefs.  You talk about it being the ultimate innocent life or whatever, to me it's a cluster of cells for quite awhile before it reaches that stage.  The reason people freak out about young deaths more is because not only the potential (which you seemed concerned about) but also because they've experienced life and the world but that gets taken away.  The "life" you refer to has not experienced anything this the loss is purely based on potential.  

I'm curious if you were drowning with two sons ages 3 and 7 and you can save one of them which would you save? I actually have a point to this depending on your answer.  

Was considering pointing out the hypocrisy of the anti choice folks who don't wanna help the babies forced into this world with cheap healthcare or how those same people are all about military spending but anti expanding veterans benefits but... Oops guess I did just point out some of your side's hypocrisies

Uhm, no....a fetus is defined up until birth, meaning could be 9 months along.  A baby can survive outside the womb at 22 weeks.  So no, it's not a ball of mush, but great try.  Have you ever taken a biology class, or perhaps are a parent and go through the ultra sound process.  No wonder why you think it is a "cluster of cells", that's how people that justify that abomination can do so.

[Benny B]

I have no problems with voter ID laws. I'm for them, think there a good idea. But I've seen no evidence pointing to extensive vote fraud in this country. How many elections have been stolen in the last 20 years? Don't think it's quite the problem gun violence is here.

Making voting easier should be the goal.   The amount of proven voter fraud is miniscule.   The number of gun-related homicides and suicides is not.  

So if the goal is to make voting easier, why not make it mandatory?  Seriously... how can something be any easier than if it were mandatory?

Oh yeah... because the same people who want to make voting "easy" are the same ones scared about the implications for their affiliations if turnout was 100%.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I have no problems with voter ID laws. I'm for them, think there a good idea. But I've seen no evidence pointing to extensive vote fraud in this country. How many elections have been stolen in the last 20 years? Don't think it's quite the problem gun violence is here.

   didn't it just come out that several places had evidence of thousands of bogus votes? How about the uncounted votes that an election official "found" in her trunk that pushed Al franken over the top?

  Don't think there is voter fraud on a large scale? Read the biographies of Lyndon Johnson and Harry Truman. Gudalupe County in Texas had more votes for Kennedy/Johnson than registered voters, for example. I grew up in Chicago where I have natural carnal knowledge of how the system works there.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Making voting easier should be the goal.   The amount of proven voter fraud is miniscule.   The number of gun-related homicides and suicides is not.   

Not true, the amount of CONVICTED fraud is small, but that's because a lot of people don't want to prosecute it.  There is fraud all over the place and it is proven each and every election.  Big difference.

Regardless, if voting should be made easier, the integrity of the vote should be paramount, and it isn't.  A fraudulent vote wipes out a legitimate vote.

[🏀]

[Benny B]

I'm curious if you were drowning with two sons ages 3 and 7 and you can save one of them which would you save? I actually have a point to this depending on your answer.  

I'm saving the 3 year old, because if conditions are conducive to my survival with a 3 y/o in my arms, my 7 year old - who has been swimming for several years by this point - is going to survive, too.

[Galway Eagle]

Uhm, no....a fetus is defined up until birth, meaning could be 9 months along.  A baby can survive outside the womb at 22 weeks.  So no, it's not a ball of mush, but great try.  Have you ever taken a biology class, or perhaps are a parent and go through the ultra sound process.  No wonder why you think it is a "cluster of cells", that's how people that justify that abomination can do so.

Yes have taken a bio class.  I think you're sitting there thinking that I'm prochoice for the entire pregnancy or something... I'm not.  22 weeks is a long ass time and if someone hasn't made up their mind by then they shouldn't get to. The fetus until 9 months thing is right but seeing as bones don't form for 10 weeks it's hard to explain how it's not mush before that.  Regarding the other stuff you said I hope you read my PM and feel like crap for bringing it up.

[Coleman]

So if the goal is to make voting easier, why not make it mandatory?  Seriously... how can something be any easier than if it were mandatory?

Oh yeah... because the same people who want to make voting "easy" are the same ones scared about the implications for their affiliations if turnout was 100%.

huh?

[ChicosBailBonds]

  didn't it just come out that several places had evidence of thousands of bogus votes? How about the uncounted votes that an election official "found" in her trunk that pushed Al franken over the top?

  Don't think there is voter fraud on a large scale? Read the biographies of Lyndon Johnson and Harry Truman. Gudalupe County in Texas had more votes for Kennedy/Johnson than registered voters, for example. I grew up in Chicago where I have natural carnal knowledge of how the system works there.  

It's all about the conviction rate and prosecutors willing to take it to court.  It happens a lot, but sometimes certain parties that control the levers of law enforcement aren't interested in using their resources, and that goes for both sides.

When you have precincts all around the country with OVER 100% voting participation and precincts that have 100% of the vote going for one person, statisticians will tell you it is essentially impossible.  Yet that has happened.  Let alone the number of people each election that are dead and somehow had a ballot cast in their name, or those alive that had a ballot cast in their name and when they show up to actually vote they are told someone already did so for them.

All about the convictions.  The rate of speeders ticketed is probably 10%, does that mean we don't have speeders?  Of course we do, but one side refuses to acknowledge it.

[Coleman]

  didn't it just come out that several places had evidence of thousands of bogus votes? How about the uncounted votes that an election official "found" in her trunk that pushed Al franken over the top?

  Don't think there is voter fraud on a large scale? Read the biographies of Lyndon Johnson and Harry Truman. Gudalupe County in Texas had more votes for Kennedy/Johnson than registered voters, for example. I grew up in Chicago where I have natural carnal knowledge of how the system works there.  

Or George Dubya in Florida

[jesmu84]

An increased sense of community as well as more vigilant parenting and less PC-ness would go a long way to help in controlling some of these public/school shootings.

[Coleman]

The rate of speeders ticketed is probably 10%, does that mean we don't have speeders?  Of course we do, but one side refuses to acknowledge it.

One side of the political spectrum refuses to acknowledge that America has a problem with speeding?  WTF?



I thought this thread was about guns, err...abortion? Or maybe we are just going to hit every f*cking issue that "culture warriors" demand on talking about in every political discussion...

Can you stay on one topic for 5 minutes?

[Benny B]

huh?

Make.  Voting.  Mandatory.

No more fraud.  No more worrying about minorities being shut out or oppressed.  You don't have to worry about Grandma not having a driver's license.  No longer will national campaigns be decided by about three dozen precincts throughout the country.  The campaign system will become a debate and discussion about issues instead of the vitriol and histrionics solely meant to get your base to the polls.

[Coleman]

Make.  Voting.  Mandatory.

No more fraud.  No more worrying about minorities being shut out or oppressed.  You don't have to worry about Grandma not having a driver's license.  No longer will national campaigns be decided by about three dozen precincts throughout the country.  The campaign system will become a debate and discussion about issues instead of the vitriol and histrionics solely meant to get your base to the polls.

I was "huh"ing at the second part of your post.

[rocky_warrior]

For the record, I don't read many superbar topic, so thanks to the one poster that reported this as overly political (I suppose I should have guessed by the 13 pages).