PG

[Let's Go Warriors]

So you want to apply the Buzz William's freshmen methodology to D. Wilson now?

I want D. wilson to earn the right to play defense by fixing his shot.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Buzz didn't develop DW's shooting ability.  Obviously.  So I'm not getting where you're coming from.

D. Wilson has never been a great shooter, nor will he ever be.  You either have it or you don't.  He just doesn't have it.  He's meant to be a ball handler that can drive and play defense.  That's about it. 

I'm not sure where you have been the last several months, but Buzz didn't play the freshmen much because they didn't play defense.  Tough love.  How'd that work out?  He had a virtual mutiny on his hands.  D. Wilson is what he his.... very limited. 

I'm not sure where this mantra of..... well, practice a shot and you'll get one comes from?  That's not how it works at this stage of the game.  You can improve shooting, slightly ..... but you can't get a shot at this age.  Does that make sense?     

[Texas Western]

Generally speaking a guys can either shoot by the time he is 21 years old and been playing basketball his whole life, or he cannot.  Generally a GUARD who shoots 45% from the FT line, is never going to evolve into a good perimeter/3 point shooter.

Vander was a good shooter in high school as a junior...somewhere lost confidence....yet I believe as a sophomore he shot close to 75% on FT's - which can foreshadow being a good shooter.

If Derrick can improve, and be a threat on offense - then he is worthy of some playing time...and should get a look at beginning of season.  Yet, there is no way in hell Wojo keeps Duane and Dawson on the bench if Derrick were to get starting nod, and perform as he did last year.

You are correct, at this point if Derrick doesn't have a shot he won't get one. I would like to see him getting about 10 minutes a game. 5 in each half where he works hard on defense.

[CTWarrior]

Who plays point guard is important no matter what the offense is. Yes, you need a good PG if you have a low-post offense. You also need a good PG if you have a drive-and-kick 3-point offense. Or any other offense. Unless you have a dominant 2 or a Pippen-type 3, your PG owns the ball, makes the decision and drives the attack, no matter what kind of attack you have.

I know Wojo is aware of this and, as I said in my OP, I am beyond merely curious about what he's going to do about it.

Agree that PG is obviously important regardless of offense, but vacinator's point is valid.  Derrick's lack of production was particularly painful last year because our best scoring threat was always on the low block, making it easy for Derrick's man to double our main threat.  When our threats can be varied and anywhere on the floor, it's harder for Derrick's man to ALWAYS be in good position to offer help, like he was this year.  That doesn't mean that Derrick's lack of offense won't hurt, because it will, but just not as much.  Derrick needs to improve either his shooting or his passing in traffic A LOT if he's not going to be a liability on offense.

[Nevada233]

You are correct, at this point if Derrick doesn't have a shot he won't get one. I would like to see him getting about 10 minutes a game. 5 in each half where he works hard on defense.

A Point guard with a Shot can get you to the Final 4. (Napier, Harrison, Wilbilken etc)

A Point guard who doesn't require a defender can get you to 17-15........

We just gotta be honest with our selves, hes a good defender/huge offensive liability.
The program is not gonna take too many steps forward with players on the floor that cant score or create shots for themself or others. At this level, maybe at a D2 or D3 school. But D1 Athletes are just to good.

[Let's Go Warriors]

D. Wilson has never been a great shooter, nor will he ever be.  You either have it or you don't.  He just doesn't have it.  He's meant to be a ball handler that can drive and play defense.  That's about it. 

I'm not sure where you have been the last several months, but Buzz didn't play the freshmen much because they didn't play defense.  Tough love.  How'd that work out?  He had a virtual mutiny on his hands.  D. Wilson is what he his.... very limited. 

I'm not sure where this mantra of..... well, practice a shot and you'll get one comes from?  That's not how it works at this stage of the game.  You can improve shooting, slightly ..... but you can't get a shot at this age.  Does that make sense?     

False!

Great shooters are made not born.  You ask most of the great shooters(Maravich, Bird, Curry, Novak )

They will tell you they got that way from hours upon hours of hard work in the gym.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

False!

Great shooters are made not born.  You ask most of the great shooters(Maravich, Bird, Curry, Novak )

They will tell you they got that way from hours upon hours of hard work in the gym.

Yeah, and to get ahead of the curve you have to develop muscle memory when you're younger.  That ship has long since, sailed with Wilson.  I've read stories on Bird + Maravich and Kevin Durant. Those guys were already great shooters at age 21 and when they were younger than that.  They were all gym rats when they were boys, practicing shooting, playing all the time.  It takes 1000's of hours to develop a great shot.  Studies show you need 10,000 hours to become proficient/expert at something.  Wilson has run out of time.  It's the same process with learning language.  It's easier to learn as a child as your brain is much more flexible, which is why foreign language is taught at such a young age in schools.  As you get older, it's more difficult to learn as the brain becomes more rigid. 

[Hards Alumni]

Yeah, and to get ahead of the curve you have to develop muscle memory when you're younger.  That ship has long since, sailed with Wilson.  I've read stories on Bird + Maravich and Kevin Durant. Those guys were already great shooters at age 21 and when they were younger than that.  They were all gym rats when they were boys, practicing shooting, playing all the time.  It takes 1000's of hours to develop a great shot.  Studies show you need 10,000 hours to become proficient/expert at something.  Wilson has run out of time.  It's the same process with learning language.  It's easier to learn as a child as your brain is much more flexible, which is why foreign language is taught at such a young age in schools.  As you get older, it's more difficult to learn as the brain becomes more rigid. 

Explain Dwyane Wade.  He was not a great college shooter.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Explain Dwyane Wade.  He was not a great college shooter.

What do you want me to say?  ESPN has him ranked as one of the worst 3 pt shooters in the history of the NBA.  He's never been a great shooter. 

[Let's Go Warriors]

Jimmy butler and doc as well

[CTWarrior]

False!

Great shooters are made not born.  You ask most of the great shooters(Maravich, Bird, Curry, Novak )

They will tell you they got that way from hours upon hours of hard work in the gym.

That doesn't mean everybody can become a great shooter through hours upon hours of hard work in the gym.  I'd guess that 98% of the population could work as hard as Novak has at shooting and not be as good as he is.  Natural ability is also a large part of the equation. 

Shaq worked very hard at FT shooting and still stunk (though he was much better than a certain unnamed PG).

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

That doesn't mean everybody can become a great shooter through hours upon hours of hard work in the gym.  I'd guess that 98% of the population could work as hard as Novak has at shooting and not be as good as he is.  Natural ability is also a large part of the equation. 

Shaq worked very hard at FT shooting and still stunk (though he was much better than a certain unnamed PG).

Yes....  I didn't put genetics in my assessment on shooting.  That plays a huge roll - hand/eye coordination.  Look at Herschel Walker.  That guy was born an athlete and could succeed at anything he wanted to, athletically.  I read last year that he ran 4.39  40 yd dash at the ripe old age of 49. 

[brandx]

That is fairly nonsensical.  Plenty of players make it to the NBA without being great shooters, and then become excellent shooters.  It is one of the easier basketball skills to learn with coaching.   Additionally, Derrick is an extremely hard worker (and a military kid), so I don't follow your logic when you imply that he knew the starting job was his so he didn't have to work at it.

There's a world of difference between being "not a great shooter" and being a horrible shooter. Derrick is a horrible shooter and his shot will not get better. If a senior to be still cannot make free throws, there is no hope for his shooting touch.

That being said, I think he can prosper in a Duke style offense, and I expect him to start and player 20 minutes or so a game.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

They should just put me in. I am an absolute sniper from behind the arc in rec center backetball.

[brandx]

Look, you don't have to be upset about it.  Shooting takes time.  I'm saying that you can't teach, speed or athleticism.  You can certainly teach shooting.  Look at how awful Vander Blue was his freshman and sophomore years.  His points all came inside.  By his Junior year, he was a serviceable shooter, and teams had to respect him.  If Derrick spends his time shooting there is no reason to think that he can't improve. 

Vander is not in the NBA because he is still a terrible shooter (relative to others at that level.

[PistolPete]

There's a world of difference between being "not a great shooter" and being a horrible shooter. Derrick is a horrible shooter and his shot will not get better. If a senior to be still cannot make free throws, there is no hope for his shooting touch.

That being said, I think he can prosper in a Duke style offense, and I expect him to start and player 20 minutes or so a game.

How would you describe a Duke style offense? Does the PG have virtually no role? If not, I can't see any reason why Derrick would start/play 20 minutes/game.

[Let's Go Warriors]

Plenty of shooters improve after age 21.  Is there a limit to how good each shooter can get?  Of course.  But derricks technique is horrible.  U nor I have no idea how much time he puts into shooting vs lifting vs ballhandling.  To suggest u for a fact know how far along Derrick let alone any shooter is within the laws of diminishing returns is lunacy.  Based on his technique he either is  not practicing much shooting or is practicing wrong.  He has lots of room for improvement given the proper teaching.

[brandx]

How would you describe a Duke style offense? Does the PG have virtually no role? If not, I can't see any reason why Derrick would start/play 20 minutes/game.

Shooters on the wings. Middle much more open than with Buzz' offense. Quick conversion from defense to offense. PG keeping the ball moving and driving the lane.

Wojo was effective averaging 5 pts. a game in that offense.

I would love to see Derrick as more of a situational guy getting 10 - 12 minutes a game. But he is a tough defender and the other two options have a total of less than 250 minutes of experience. I would like to see Duane playing 25+ minutes, but I haven't seen whether he has point skills necessary. He was a scoring point guard in HS.

[PistolPete]

Shooters on the wings. Middle much more open than with Buzz' offense. Quick conversion from defense to offense. PG keeping the ball moving and driving the lane.

Wojo was effective averaging 5 pts. a game in that offense.

I would love to see Derrick as more of a situational guy getting 10 - 12 minutes a game. But he is a tough defender and the other two options have a total of less than 250 minutes of experience. I would like to see Duane playing 25+ minutes, but I haven't seen whether he has point skills necessary. He was a scoring point guard in HS.

Herein lies a major problem - Todd Mayo is, by far, our best returning perimeter shooter @ .333 (assume at least 25 attempts). While my expectations for Todd are high for his senior year, I regard Todd as a pure scorer but not as a shooter (especially by Duke standards).

I think Derrick will have a role next year, but if he's logging 20 mpg, I don't predict a favorable outcome.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Plenty of shooters improve after age 21.  Is there a limit to how good each shooter can get?  Of course.  But derricks technique is horrible.  U nor I have no idea how much time he puts into shooting vs lifting vs ballhandling.  To suggest u for a fact know how far along Derrick let alone any shooter is within the laws of diminishing returns is lunacy.  Based on his technique he either is  not practicing much shooting or is practicing wrong.  He has lots of room for improvement given the proper teaching.

I will go with that he cannot shoot.  In fact, I believe that's the scouting report he had in high school.  It is foolish optimism to think that if D. Wilson gets a shooting coach, that he'll become an outside threat this coming season.  

I already said, he could improve and he probably will as that is typical progression.  Nonetheless, he won't improve enough to the point that he becomes a solid mid range shooter.  Best Case scenario:  +2 pts a game.  +3% increase in FG%.  

[77ncaachamps]

I support Derrick.




On the bench.

#FreeDawson
#FreeDuane

[Let's Go Warriors]

I will go with that he cannot shoot.  In fact, I believe that's the scouting report he had in high school.  It is foolish optimism to think that if D. Wilson gets a shooting coach, that he'll become an outside threat this coming season.  

I already said, he could improve and he probably will as that is typical progression.  Nonetheless, he won't improve enough to the point that he becomes a solid mid range shooter.  Best Case scenario:  +2 pts a game.  +3% increase in FG%.  

Ummm
U in fact made statements to the fact shooters can't improve after a certain age.  Not just Derrick.  Nobody is expecting  Derrick to become Steve Novak.  Just maybe shoot a decent percent from the line.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Ummm
U in fact made statements to the fact shooters can't improve after a certain age.  Not just Derrick.  Nobody is expecting  Derrick to become Steve Novak.  Just maybe shoot a decent percent from the line.

What statement implied was that after a certain age, you can improve.... very slightly.  His improvement will be so slight, that it won't make much of a difference.  The big difference will be in how Wojo uses him.  Besides, we're not looking at the fact that D. Wilson HAD to shoot with the poor guards they had out there.  The best thing that can happen is that D.Wilson gets someone he can pass to that can shoot.  It's best he stay in his element, otherwise you become a less efficient team.  He should be focusing on passing, driving, steals, and free throws the most. 

[Let's Go Warriors]

What statement implied was that after a certain age, you can improve.... very slightly.  His improvement will be so slight, that it won't make much of a difference.  The big difference will be in how Wojo uses him.  Besides, we're not looking at the fact that D. Wilson HAD to shoot with the poor guards they had out there.  The best thing that can happen is that D.Wilson gets someone he can pass to that can shoot.  It's best he stay in his element, otherwise you become a less efficient team.  He should be focusing on passing, driving, steals, and free throws the most. 

I think the number of reps done properly has more to do with it vs the persons age.  What if they never touched a basketball till the age 20?

anyway...

As far as Derrick I dont actually disagree.  I dont think his shooting will improve much if at all.  There are some pretty bad flaws in his technique at it would require about 20k supervised repetitions in the off season to fix it.  The difference I guess is, that I think it COULD be accomplished.

IMO for this team to succeed Derrick will need take on a role of more like 15 to 20 situational minutes.

Its all good though.  Just take off those glasses man!

[brandx]

Ummm
U in fact made statements to the fact shooters can't improve after a certain age.  Not just Derrick.  Nobody is expecting  Derrick to become Steve Novak.  Just maybe shoot a decent percent from the line.

I think DW can improve from the line - maybe even to 60% - which will make him a horrible FT shooter.