Mayo article in the JS

[brandx]

I, for one, am shocked that two people have different opinions on the internet.

And I believe everything I see there .... so it's really giving me a headache.

[Archies Bat]

I know why Dawson should play, the issue here, is why Wilson should not play since he keeps seeing the floor for big minutes for some inexplicable reason. And as far as taking the big shot, JJJ and Burton have never been in position to take a big shot, and the subject of this thread should be the poster boy for big shots on this 2013-2014 MU team. Mayo sent us into overtime @Gtown and single handedly gave this team 5 extra minutes against Nova.

And though I don't like being labeled as a bloviator, I'll fight to the death for your right to call me such.

Agree.  Have a drink on me.  I have zero problem with people disagreeing with me.  Friction makes the world go round.  I tire of internet shouting.

[brandx]

+1

I've been saying this for awhile. Mayo is a slashing two guard while Thomas is a sniper. Neither is as effective without the other.

My personal opinion for our best rotation

1) D Wilson/Dawson (split time offense-defense)
2) Mayo (Should play almost whole game)
3) J Wilson (Should play the whole game)
4) S Taylor/Thomas/Anderson/Burton*
5) Gardner/Otule (Otule only enough time to keep Davante fresh)

*Obviously Jake/Juan/Burton won't play the four with Jamil in the game. Jamil switches to the 4 and these three play the 3. Thomas for threes, Anderson for defense, Burton for offense

Pretty good job. I agree Mayo, Jamil and Gardner should play as many minutes as they can, divide PG minutes fairly equal depending on who is getting job done better and the final spot goes to whatever is needed in that particular game. I would add that JJJ should back up Mayo for about 10 or so minutes a game at the '2'

[ATL MU Warrior]

I sir would like to honor this comment with a tip of my cap.

Well done.

Hey thanks.  I'm here all week.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Well, let's build some bridges folks.

We're probably all closer to the same opinion than we think.

#1 MU has not had very consistently good play from the PG, SG, SF and PF positions.

#2 Buzz needs to find a better way to mix and match minutes to get more performance out of every position, except C.  I think we are doing just fine at the C.

Easy. Peasy.

You missed a few things, which I have kindly added to your post.

[Windyplayer]

Agree.  Have a drink on me.  I have zero problem with people disagreeing with me.  Friction makes the world go round.  I tire of internet shouting.

Bottoms up, my friend.

[tower912]

Agree.  Have a drink on me.  I have zero problem with people disagreeing with me.  Friction makes the world go round.  I tire of internet shouting.

Agreed.   The voices in my head don't usually agree, why should I expect the rest of the world to?   

[Archies Bat]

Bottoms up, my friend.

I did, I did again, and will again...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

There are two camps as far as I'm concerned. (1) Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson or (2) Wilson should play more minutes than Dawson. Whoever plays more minutes is who Buzz thinks gives us the best chance to win, per se. What nuances am I missing here?

The nuance is:

#1 Everybody recognizes that Derrick isn't Magic Johnson. We all agree.

#2 We also all agree that Buzz needs to find a way to get better performance out of the PG position. (Hell, all positions for that matter, but we're talking about PG).

#3 (and this is where the disagreement comes in) I don't believe that simply plugging J. Dawson in for 30mpg is the answer.

#4 I think Buzz needs to find a way to mix and match Dawson and Wilson to get the most performance. Theoretically, it would be a 25/15 split, with Buzz riding the hot hand for the night.

Nuance'd.

[Eldon]

The nuance is:

#1 Everybody recognizes that Derrick isn't Magic Johnson. We all agree.

#2 We also all agree that Buzz needs to find a way to get better performance out of the PG position. (Hell, all positions for that matter, but we're talking about PG).

#3 (and this is where the disagreement comes in) I don't believe that simply plugging J. Dawson in for 30mpg is the answer.

#4 I think Buzz needs to find a way to mix and match Dawson and Wilson to get the most performance. Theoretically, it would be a 25/15 split, with Buzz riding the hot hand for the night.

Nuance'd.

I'm not sure anybody is certain that Dawson is the answer.  But it sure would be nice to know if he is or isn't by giving him the keys to the car for once.  If he performs well and shows drastic improvement over a few games, then great--maybe he can get us through the BE tourney.  If we give Dawson the keys and he performs like crap, then we lose games that we would have lost anyway and thus no harm done. 

[jesmu84]

I'm not sure anybody is certain that Dawson is the answer.  But it sure would be nice to know if he is or isn't by giving him the keys to the car for once.  If he performs well and shows drastic improvement over a few games, then great--maybe he can get us through the BE tourney.  If we give Dawson the keys and he performs like crap, then we lose games that we would have lost anyway and thus no harm done. 

This portion is where you completely lose me. You cannot make that claim. Logically, that is.

[GGGG]

This portion is where you completely lose me. You cannot make that claim. Logically, that is.

Honestly, giving 30+ minutes to Dawson last night might have very well resulted in a loss.  I noticed he really didn't even guard Cotton when he was in the game.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm not sure anybody is certain that Dawson is the answer.  But it sure would be nice to know if he is or isn't by giving him the keys to the car for once.  If he performs well and shows drastic improvement over a few games, then great--maybe he can get us through the BE tourney.  If we give Dawson the keys and he performs like crap, then we lose games that we would have lost anyway and thus no harm done. 

#1 What does "giving him the keys to the car" exactly mean? 15min? 35min? I can't remember a time where Buzz just handed a guy 30min so he could evaluate him. That's what practice is for. Games are for winning. Distribute minutes based upon match-ups and player performance.

#2 I'm not sure a Wilson/Dawson combo means MU is going to lose.

[Windyplayer]

#1 What does "giving him the keys to the car" exactly mean? 15min? 35min? I can't remember a time where Buzz just handed a guy 30min so he could evaluate him. That's what practice is for. Games are for winning. Distribute minutes based upon match-ups and player performance.

#2 I'm not sure a Wilson/Dawson combo means MU is going to lose.

For the record, Wilson had a very nice game last night. Well done, young man.

Still a lot of issues with his offensive game, but when other guys are doing their thing and he's crushing it on defense, they're a lot less noticeable. 

[Eldon]

Honestly, giving 30+ minutes to Dawson last night might have very well resulted in a loss.  I noticed he really didn't even guard Cotton when he was in the game.

You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.

To be as explicit as possible here, I am and have been (since the Butler loss) working under two axioms:
1)  We will not make the NCAAs unless we win the BE tourney.
2)  We will not win the BE tourney with Derrick at the point (ie playing 30+ minutes)

I suppose I can hedge and say "likely not win" and "likely not make."

I am willing to entertain the notion that it is not Derrick that is the problem, but rather the combo of him and Jake together that have caused this season's problems.  But at first blush I remain skeptical of this claim.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

For the record, Wilson had a very nice game last night. Well done, young man.

Still a lot of issues with his offensive game, but when other guys are doing their thing and he's crushing it on defense, they're a lot less noticeable. 

Agreed, and anybody who thinks Derrick is magically "fixed" is an idiot. Derrick has flaws.  

However, I think it's reasonable for everybody to realize that a combo of Derrick and Dawson is Buzz's best option. In the Georgetown game, Dawson was better, so Buzz rode him. Last night, Derrick was better.

This isn't unlike the Otule/Gardner situation in previous years.

Maybe everybody could back off the "Player X should get 30min!"?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.

To be as explicit as possible here, I am and have been (since the Butler loss) working under two axioms:
1)  We will not make the NCAAs unless we win the BE tourney.
2)  We will not win the BE tourney with Derrick at the point (ie playing 30+ minutes)

I suppose I can hedge and say "likely not win" and "likely not make."

I am willing to entertain the notion that it is not Derrick that is the problem, but rather the combo of him and Jake together that have caused this season's problems.  But at first blush I remain skeptical of this claim.

You're missing another option.

Buzz could mix and match Derrick and Dawson to maximize return, right?

It's not 30min. or nothing. The pie is 40min. It can be divided a lot of different ways.

[NersEllenson]

You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.

To be as explicit as possible here, I am and have been (since the Butler loss) working under two axioms:
1)  We will not make the NCAAs unless we win the BE tourney.
2)  We will not win the BE tourney with Derrick at the point (ie playing 30+ minutes)

I suppose I can hedge and say "likely not win" and "likely not make."

I am willing to entertain the notion that it is not Derrick that is the problem, but rather the combo of him and Jake together that have caused this season's problems.  But at first blush I remain skeptical of this claim.

Well said...

There is no doubt the pairing of Derrick, Jake, Juan and Otule that Buzz rode so long was ridiculous and hurt everyone in that rotation..including  Derrick and Jake.

Not hard to figure out the keys to the car analogy - 30+ minutes per game is the keys to the car.  One player at PG has gotten that and has been marginal at best if we are putting it nicely.  The other PG has gotten those 30 minutes once, and played very well.

[Eldon]

#1 What does "giving him the keys to the car" exactly mean? 15min? 35min? I can't remember a time where Buzz just handed a guy 30min so he could evaluate him. That's what practice is for. Games are for winning. Distribute minutes based upon match-ups and player performance.

#2 I'm not sure a Wilson/Dawson combo means MU is going to lose.

25 minutes at least.  Buzz has also never been in a lame duck situation like he is right now.  Ideally, we would have let Dawson work out his kinks against the cupcakes.

I agree that practice is the best replicator of game-time situations.  But practice is not a perfect simulation of the game.  No matter what Buzz and company does during practice, absolutely nothing can simulate game-time emotion, pressure, etc. like actual game minutes can (Favre, Brady, Young, etc).  

Compound that with the fact that Dawson is constantly going up against D-wil every practice, getting the same schemes over and over.  Pitting him against the likes of other PGs gives us crucial game tape to analyze to improve him, hopefully in time for the BE tourney (and as a bonus, next season).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

25 minutes at least.  Buzz has also never been in a lame duck situation like he is right now.  Ideally, we would have let Dawson work out his kinks against the cupcakes.

I agree that practice is the best replicator of game-time situations.  But practice is not a perfect simulation of the game.  No matter what Buzz and company does during practice, absolutely nothing can simulate game-time emotion, pressure, etc. like actual game minutes can (Favre, Brady, Young, etc).  

Compound that with the fact that Dawson is constantly going up against D-wil every practice, getting the same schemes over and over.  Pitting him against the likes of other PGs gives us crucial game tape to analyze to improve him, hopefully in time for the BE tourney (and as a bonus, next season).

25min?

Well, I'll just fundamentally disagree with you.

I think both players have some flaws, so Buzz's best option is to mix and match them to get the optimized performance. It's not a perfect science, but I think it's the best option.

Sometimes that might be 25min for Dawson, sometimes it might be less that 15.

[GGGG]

You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.

There is not a single good basketball coach in the country that thinks this way.

Not hard to figure out the keys to the car analogy - 30+ minutes per game is the keys to the car.  One player at PG has gotten that and has been marginal at best if we are putting it nicely.  The other PG has gotten those 30 minutes once, and played very well.

So you are *still* suggesting this is a good idea???  Unbelievable.  Buzz knows what's going on.  He sees it in practice.  I mean, Juan has hardly been playing.  Let's run him 30+ minutes and see what results!  What's the worst that can happen?

However, I think it's reasonable for everybody to realize that a combo of Derrick and Dawson is Buzz's best option. In the Georgetown game, Dawson was better, so Buzz rode him. Last night, Derrick was better.

Well stated.  

[Eldon]

There is not a single good basketball coach in the country that thinks this way.


So you are *still* suggesting this is a good idea???  Unbelievable.  Buzz knows what's going on.  He sees it in practice.  I mean, Juan has hardly been playing.  Let's run him 30+ minutes and see what results!  What's the worst that can happen?


Well stated.  

I see the point you are trying to make and I disagree for two reasons.
1)  I feel comfortable with the sample size that we have with Juan
2)  More importantly, playing Juan for 30+ minutes is bad because of the high opportunity cost that accompanies that decision--those are minutes that could be used to develop JJJ and/or Burton.

[GGGG]

I see the point you are trying to make and I disagree for two reasons.
1)  I feel comfortable with the sample size that we have with Juan
2)  More importantly, playing Juan for 30+ minutes is bad because of the high opportunity cost that accompanies that decision--those are minutes that could be used to develop JJJ and/or Burton.

I knew #1 was going to be your response.  It isn't about *your* comfort in the sample size.  It's about Buzz's. 

This is what I think it boils down for a lot of you.  You haven't seen enough John Dawson, and therefore he should play more.  But the coaches *have* seen him...and have made the decision to give him 10 or so minutes per game.

[Eldon]

Bump.

In hindsight, what do we make of the assistants telling Todd, not Buzz, but Todd, that he should be playing more?

Was Buzz both a prima donna and an absolute dictator?  Were the assistants afraid of him?  Were they yes-men?

[77ncaachamps]

Oh....then it wasn't irony since I don't take discussions off topic like I was referring to.

And the fact that you think I have an "unceasing defense of Wilson" shows that you also have a reading problem.

Good luck to you.

I think, looking back, it's fitting for Buzz to surround himself with experience (insecurity?) and never (rarely?) with a younger, up and coming coach to take under his wing.

Chew may have been the closest he has come to it.
Monarch? No.
Autry? Puh-lease.
Benford? Possibly the only one, but he was already a potential D-1 coach.