IWB's Inside the Al blog talk radio

[Blackhat]

What's the 21 Club? It sounds like it's either a titty bar or Pat Robertson's money shakedown scheme for young adults.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Or he did it because it was his job.

I heard him talk at the 21 Club last year before the BET.  Passion is not a word I would use.  Being there because he was told to be there is a sentence I would use though.

Fair point.  Would you call Cottingham a passionate guy?  I wouldn't. 

I just find the notion that the AD didn't care about basketball so absurd to be laughable.  Now, the president, that's a different story.  As I mentioned here a few weeks ago when I talked to Dan Guerrero, he knows Larry.  Some of this conversation about LW has become more myth than reality, at least as it pertains to LW and his appreciation for basketball.  Sure, he had some differing views on the who and the what, that's not out of the ordinary.  What kind of kids, how you implement discipline, so on and so forth.  But to suggest he did not care for basketball is just wrong.  I suspect what is happening here is that a few people didn't like his (or Pilarz') view of how things should be, especially in light of some of the major public issues at the time, but that doesn't mean he didn't care for basketball.  LW isn't a stupid man, you don't take a job to be the AD at a basketball only school with the 3rd highest basketball budget in the country and not care about that sport....it's an absurd comment. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Fair point.  Would you call Cottingham a passionate guy?  I wouldn't. 

I just find the notion that the AD didn't care about basketball so absurd to be laughable.  Now, the president, that's a different story.  As I mentioned here a few weeks ago when I talked to Dan Guerrero, he knows Larry.  Some of this conversation about LW has become more myth than reality, at least as it pertains to LW and his appreciation for basketball.  Sure, he had some differing views on the who and the what, that's not out of the ordinary.  What kind of kids, how you implement discipline, so on and so forth.  But to suggest he did not care for basketball is just wrong.  I suspect what is happening here is that a few people didn't like his (or Pilarz') view of how things should be, especially in light of some of the major public issues at the time, but that doesn't mean he didn't care for basketball.  LW isn't a stupid man, you don't take a job to be the AD at a basketball only school with the 3rd highest basketball budget in the country and not care about that sport....it's an absurd comment. 

I'm confused how this turned into a thread about Larry Williams. Nobody cares about him other than the fact that everybody seems pretty pleased he's gone.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Depends who they get to replace him with.  I think a lot of people are glad he's gone for one reason.  He went to Notre Dame.  Just how people are.  My point was how utterly silly it is to say an AD doesn't care about the flagship sport of the department he runs.  Presidents can act like that because they often don't understand or care about athletics.  Professors often act like this, out of spite, envy, or whatever.  ADs...no.  Just a ridiculous assumption and from I heard from at least one major AD, nothing could be further from the truth.

[keefe]

Depends who they get to replace him with.  I think a lot of people are glad he's gone for one reason.  He went to Notre Dame.  Just how people are.  My point was how utterly silly it is to say an AD doesn't care about the flagship sport of the department he runs.  Presidents can act like that because they often don't understand or care about athletics.  Professors often act like this, out of spite, envy, or whatever.  ADs...no.  Just a ridiculous assumption and from I heard from at least one major AD, nothing could be further from the truth.

Jams

The fact that he went to Notre Dame is irrelevant. I really doubt anyone held that against him as it is immaterial. LW was a terrible leader and subpar AD. His stewardship of the Marquette Athletic Program was characterized by chaos, turmoil, and instability. Good riddance.

[tower912]

He came in thinking there was a systemic problem, when it was an episodic problem.  The mistakes had been acknowledged, the sacrificial lamb had been offered up, changes to protocols had already been implemented.  So he tried to 'fix' something that wasn't broke.  He was also attached to Pilarz, and when it became apparent that the good Jesuit was not the long term answer, Larry's departure was inevitable.   Finally, he messed with happy.   

[Norm]

Jams

The fact that he went to Notre Dame is irrelevant. I really doubt anyone held that against him as it is immaterial. LW was a terrible leader and subpar AD. His stewardship of the Marquette Athletic Program was characterized by chaos, turmoil, and instability. Good riddance.

Please provide all the first-hand, day-to-day work you did in the MU athletic office to back up this claim. My guess is you have none.

[keefe]

Please provide all the first-hand, day-to-day work you did in the MU athletic office to back up this claim. My guess is you have none.

Your logic is off. I have no more first-hand experience in the MU Athletic Office than you do. But I have heard from first hand sources and read reports from reputable journalists that LW created problems for employees, alumni, and boosters. His tenure was characterized by chaos, instability, and turmoil.

Evidence? Buzz Williams was profoundly unhappy and considered leaving specifically because of LW and Scott Pilarz. LW couldn't pronounce the names of substantial donors. That is just stupid. And because of Buzz' dissatisfaction and LW's inability to connect with boosters donations are off. Significantly.

If you do not believe that this suggests chaos, instability, and turmoil I welcome your assessment of LW's tenure. And please stop being obtuse when replying.

[Norm]

Your logic is off. I have no more first-hand experience in the MU Athletic Office than you do. But I have heard from first hand sources and read reports from reputable journalists that LW created problems for employees, alumni, and boosters. His tenure was characterized by chaos, instability, and turmoil.

Evidence? Buzz Williams was profoundly unhappy and considered leaving specifically because of LW and Scott Pilarz. LW couldn't pronounce the names of substantial donors. That is just stupid. And because of Buzz' dissatisfaction and LW's inability to connect with boosters donations are off. Significantly.

If you do not believe that this suggests chaos, instability, and turmoil I welcome your assessment of LW's tenure. And please stop being obtuse when replying.

I like a lot of your posts, but sometimes you can be a condescending prick. Thank you for inferring that I am simple minded because I asked for your first-hand knowledge of claims slamming the former AD's performance. I'll try not to be so obtuse in the future.

Under Williams, the entire MU sports program performed pretty well - MU Elite Eight in men's basketball, great success in volleyball and men's and women's soccer, starting up the men's and women's lacrosse program. He also navigated MU's entry into the newest version of the Big East, and seemed to play a lrage role according to published reports. That to me just does not seem like a athletic department in chaos, instability and turmoil. You seem to have a personal vendetta against Williams so i asked what first-hand knowledge you had about the situation. You admitted you didn't have any and rely on others' stories and printed reports. Fair enough, but I just wanted to know where you got your opinion from.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jams

The fact that he went to Notre Dame is irrelevant. I really doubt anyone held that against him as it is immaterial. LW was a terrible leader and subpar AD. His stewardship of the Marquette Athletic Program was characterized by chaos, turmoil, and instability. Good riddance.

I said people here hold it against them....and some do.  I get it.  Look, if a UCLA grad became the AD at USC, the Trojan faithful would freak.  If a Bama grad headed up the Auburn athletic department, they would freak.

My comments were merely about the claim he did not care about basketball, which is ludicrous.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He came in thinking there was a systemic problem, when it was an episodic problem.  The mistakes had been acknowledged, the sacrificial lamb had been offered up, changes to protocols had already been implemented.  So he tried to 'fix' something that wasn't broke.  He was also attached to Pilarz, and when it became apparent that the good Jesuit was not the long term answer, Larry's departure was inevitable.   Finally, he messed with happy.   

Can't have a boss mess with Happy a subordinate....terrible idea.      Basically we want a rubber stamp in there....through the course of college athletics that has ended badly so many times.  It can take a while to manifest itself, but can end badly.

Totally understand the Pilarz part.  Whomever Zach is on the IWB radio blog....he needs to maybe walk back the silliness.  You don't take a job as an AD at Marquette and not care about basketball.   Just as you don't take the USC job and not care about football, or the Minnesota job and not care about hockey, so on and so forth. 

[keefe]

I like a lot of your posts, but sometimes you can be a condescending prick. Thank you for inferring that I am simple minded because I asked for your first-hand knowledge of claims slamming the former AD's performance. I'll try not to be so obtuse in the future.

Under Williams, the entire MU sports program performed pretty well - MU Elite Eight in men's basketball, great success in volleyball and men's and women's soccer, starting up the men's and women's lacrosse program. He also navigated MU's entry into the newest version of the Big East, and seemed to play a lrage role according to published reports. That to me just does not seem like a athletic department in chaos, instability and turmoil. You seem to have a personal vendetta against Williams so i asked what first-hand knowledge you had about the situation. You admitted you didn't have any and rely on others' stories and printed reports. Fair enough, but I just wanted to know where you got your opinion from.

I agree that other aspects of the program did well while he was in charge but I would not say these accomplishments were because of LW. At the end of the day, all that really matters strategically is Men's Basketball. Without success in that vertical every other sport will suffer. And LW almost caused significant harm to Men's Basketball.

I do not know the guy so I cannot have a vendetta. Nor do I have personal first-hand observation of his management. But I have it on extremely good authority from numerous impeccable sources that he caused harm to the Marquette Athletic Program because he exercised poor judgment and leadership. And the inside story is that his organization was characterized by chaos, turmoil, and instability. How else would one describe LW and BW not ever communicating for months at a time? How else could one explain major donors closing their wallets as long as LW was still employed by MU as the AD?

My first WTF moment with LW was reading his comments in JSOnline after the WV win. And I asked several people what they knew and the story was not flattering in any way for LW. At the end of the day LW mishandled his most important employee and alienated his most critical constituency - MU's financial supporters. The fact he accomplished all of this in less than a year is impressive. I am glad he is gone because he was a disaster.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree that other aspects of the program did well while he was in charge but I would not say these accomplishments were because of LW. At the end of the day, all that really matters strategically is Men's Basketball. Without success in that vertical every other sport will suffer. And LW almost caused significant harm to Men's Basketball.

I do not know the guy so I cannot have a vendetta. Nor do I have personal first-hand observation of his management. But I have it on extremely good authority from numerous impeccable sources that he caused harm to the Marquette Athletic Program because he exercised poor judgment and leadership. And the inside story is that his organization was characterized by chaos, turmoil, and instability. How else would one describe LW and BW not ever communicating for months at a time? How else could one explain major donors closing their wallets as long as LW was still employed by MU as the AD?

My first WTF moment with LW was reading his comments in JSOnline after the WV win. And I asked several people what they knew and the story was not flattering in any way for LW. At the end of the day LW mishandled his most important employee and alienated his most critical constituency - MU's financial supporters. The fact he accomplished all of this in less than a year is impressive. I am glad he is gone because he was a disaster.  

I'll just say this.  I'm friends with a few folks in the department, including coaches and administrators.  The viewpoint of chaos, turmoil, and instability is not shared as a viewpoint.  Some folks were not happy an outsider came into the department and there are some forces that felt that others should have been the man in charge.  I don't need to tell you the politics that can result as I'm sure you have seen it in your travels and career journey.  Disaster, harm, etc.  None of that ever even close to stated by the folks I know, but I suspect depending on where one comes down on the entire decision of who should have been named AD in the first place may be a guiding principle for those remarks.

I'll leave it at that.

[keefe]

I said people here hold it against them....and some do.  I get it.  Look, if a UCLA grad became the AD at USC, the Trojan faithful would freak.  If a Bama grad headed up the Auburn athletic department, they would freak.

My comments were merely about the claim he did not care about basketball, which is ludicrous.

I'm not sure I would compare MU-ND with those other, more storied, rivalries. And Bo Schembechler was not only a Woody Hayes disciple but had spent years at Ohio as an Assistant Coach!

But I agree that LW did not not care about basketball. But he sure did not know how to manage his most important direct report. At the end of the day, that buck stops on the boss' desk. The old adage of throwing out the baby with the bath water almost happened at Marquette. Thank God saner heads prevailed.

[keefe]

I'll just say this.  I'm friends with a few folks in the department, including coaches and administrators.  The viewpoint of chaos, turmoil, and instability is not shared as a viewpoint.  Some folks were not happy an outsider came into the department and there are some forces that felt that others should have been the man in charge.  I don't need to tell you the politics that can result as I'm sure you have seen it in your travels and career journey.  Disaster, harm, etc.  None of that ever even close to stated by the folks I know, but I suspect depending on where one comes down on the entire decision of who should have been named AD in the first place may be a guiding principle for those remarks.

I'll leave it at that.

I know about the slighted insider but that has nothing to do with how LW actually managed the department. Broeker being passed over was not a factor with Buzz, pissed off boosters, or MU staff who were insulted by LW.   

[Lennys Tap]

I know about the slighted insider but that has nothing to do with how LW actually managed the department. Broeker being passed over was not a factor with Buzz, pissed off boosters, or MU staff who were insulted by LW.   

Chicos didn't like Cottingham and didn't like the Buzz hire. He's been a big LW backer in his battles with Buzz. Also a pretty solid Pilarz apologist. He's not interested in inside information that makes those guys look bad.

[Dawson Rental]

I don't trust people that only go by initials

Yeah, don't like the White Boy thing either, he should go by irritated traditional.

[Dawson Rental]

Fair point.  Would you call Cottingham a passionate guy?  I wouldn't. 

I just find the notion that the AD didn't care about basketball so absurd to be laughable.  Now, the president, that's a different story.  As I mentioned here a few weeks ago when I talked to Dan Guerrero, he knows Larry.  Some of this conversation about LW has become more myth than reality, at least as it pertains to LW and his appreciation for basketball.  Sure, he had some differing views on the who and the what, that's not out of the ordinary.  What kind of kids, how you implement discipline, so on and so forth.  But to suggest he did not care for basketball is just wrong.  I suspect what is happening here is that a few people didn't like his (or Pilarz') view of how things should be, especially in light of some of the major public issues at the time, but that doesn't mean he didn't care for basketball.  LW isn't a stupid man, you don't take a job to be the AD at a basketball only school with the 3rd highest basketball budget in the country and not care about that sport....it's an absurd comment. 

Well put.

[Dawson Rental]

He came in thinking there was a systemic problem, when it was an episodic problem.  The mistakes had been acknowledged, the sacrificial lamb had been offered up, changes to protocols had already been implemented.  So he tried to 'fix' something that wasn't broke.  He was also attached to Pilarz, and when it became apparent that the good Jesuit was not the long term answer, Larry's departure was inevitable.   Finally, he messed with happy.   

Also very well put.  When he used the term "the Notre Dame way" he set himself up for failure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos didn't like Cottingham and didn't like the Buzz hire. He's been a big LW backer in his battles with Buzz. Also a pretty solid Pilarz apologist. He's not interested in inside information that makes those guys look bad.

I actually liked Steve very much, got to work with him for several years.  Don't think he should have been the AD, but that's a different story.  Looks like just a few years later, he wasn't the AD.  Good man, smart guy.  Not surprised by the end result.

Don't mind the Buzz hire, could have gotten him a week or two later...easily.  What could have come of that week or two...we'll never know.  Good thing is Buzz will be here as long as we will have him so these funny threads popping up are a waste of time.

What else would you like to state about how I felt and be totally wrong about? 

By the way, did Xavier, Providence and St. John's finish tied for 3rd or did they finish tied for 3rd and 4th and 5th....I'm so confused.   

[Lennys Tap]

I actually liked Steve very much, got to work with him for several years.  Don't think he should have been the AD, but that's a different story.  Looks like just a few years later, he wasn't the AD.  Good man, smart guy.  Not surprised by the end result.

Don't mind the Buzz hire, could have gotten him a week or two later...easily.  What could have come of that week or two...we'll never know.  Good thing is Buzz will be here as long as we will have him so these funny threads popping up are a waste of time.

What else would you like to state about how I felt and be totally wrong about? 

By the way, did Xavier, Providence and St. John's finish tied for 3rd or did they finish tied for 3rd and 4th and 5th....I'm so confused.   

For a guy who liked Steve so much you sure did a lot of celebrating and patting yourself on the back about how smart you were saying he wouldn't last 5 years when he was hired. Guess you knew about the sexual assault allegations that would be leveled against players 4 years before they happened. LOL

Glad you don't deny being a big fan of LW and and an apologist for both him and Pilarz. Must have been hard for you when their reign of terror and failure was ended so abruptly after only a couple of years.

And yes, Xavier, Providence and St. John's did tie for 3rd, 4th and 5th place. We finished one game and one place behind them. In 6th.

[77ncaachamps]

Tower, who is Zach and is he close to the program like IWB?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Are there a lot of employees in the athletic department who were there when Chicos was there some 15-20 years ago? Employees who don't know he's a prolific poster on message boards?

I doubt it.

[mu_hilltopper]

IWB- Buzz has said that he will be at MU as long as they want him.   He didn't feel wanted by Larry and Pilarz.   S-16, S-16, E-8 without a raise from Larry and Pilarz.    It is about respect.   If the new admin makes Buzz feel wanted, he isn't going anywhere.   

Wait, IWB said that?    That Buzz wasn't given a raise after each/any of those S16/E8s? 

Maybe I'm getting old, but that's not what I remember.  Anyone?

[4everwarriors]

Doesn't he have one of those rollover deals, or is that just in bed?