Kevin O'Neil: "If Davante started he'd average 20 points/game"

[Coleman]

Otule has won 23 of 27 opening tips this season. That means MU almost always has the chance for an extra possession, which can be the difference in the game.

Still want to start Davante?

He gets starters minutes, and Otule wins tips. This is a dumb argument.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

What you have to realize is that HaywardsHeros is the biggest Otule hater ever.

[NavinRJohnson]

Simple question:  Who do you think is the MU player that concerns opposing coaches the most??

Gardner being on the court 30-33 minutes is best option - his presence alone creates opportunities for all the other guys. 

Well, wait a minute. By that logic he should play 40 minutes a game. Since you know better than the coach, why is your completely arbitrary 30-33 minutes the correct number?

[NersEllenson]

Well, wait a minute. By that logic he should play 40 minutes a game. Since you know better than the coach, why is your completely arbitrary 30-33 minutes the correct number?

Care to answer the question I posed?  Even if not, I'll answer yours:  Law of Diminishing returns.  Everyone can agree Davante's conditioning would be a weak point - yet he has gone 37 minutes in a game this year...and about 5 at the 30-33 mark.  Think exceeding 33 for a man of his size, it would then be a net negative..so, target 30-33.

[willie warrior]

Its your theory, you go prove it.  People have posted evidence that your theory doesn't hold water, go find at least 3 games where Davante got more than 30 minutes and he performed better than games like last night

Well--you obviously were too lazy to go look it up, and of course to try to make yourself look good, you compared it to his performance last night, in which he had a near career game in about 23 minutes (in which you cherry picked by saying better than last night), but just to show that you do not know what you are talking about and too "prove my theory", put the following in your pipe and smoke it:
Gardner has played in 8 games this year in which he played 30 plus minutes, and here is his production:
Points    Reb.
 18         12
 20           9
 28           6
 19           4
   6           5
  17         10
  20          4
  29         13
I only went back to this year, but last year he had about 28 and 6 in over 30 minutes against Syracuse.
So yeah-he is effective in 30 plus minute games. In the 9 games mentioned above, he averaged about 20.6 points a game and 7.67 rebounds per game.

[willie warrior]

Otule has won 23 of 27 opening tips this season. That means MU almost always has the chance for an extra possession, which can be the difference in the game.

Still want to start Davante?

He gets starters minutes, and Otule wins tips. This is a dumb argument.

Don't know where you get the 23 of 27 from, but accepting that, "almost always has the chance" is sort of like saying that if you hang around Kate Upton's place, you almost always have the chance of meeting her and scoring. Getting the tip means the next possession decision goes to the other team.

[🏀]

Well--you obviously were too lazy to go look it up, and of course to try to make yourself look good, you compared it to his performance last night, in which he had a near career game in about 23 minutes (in which you cherry picked by saying better than last night), but just to show that you do not know what you are talking about and too "prove my theory", put the following in your pipe and smoke it:
Gardner has played in 8 games this year in which he played 30 plus minutes, and here is his production:
Points    Reb.
  18         12
  20           9
  28           6
  19           4
    6           5
   17         10
   20          4
   29         13
I only went back to this year, but last year he had about 28 and 6 in over 30 minutes against Syracuse.
So yeah-he is effective in 30 plus minute games. In the 9 games mentioned above, he averaged about 20.6 points a game and 7.67 rebounds per game.

GO READ MY POST. Great using those numbers, which mean nothing.

[NavinRJohnson]

Dont't know where you get the 23 of 27 from, but accepting that, "almost always has the chance" is sort of like saying that if you hang around Kate Upton's place, you almost always have the chance of meeting her and scoring.

Actually, it isn't like saying that at all.

[NavinRJohnson]

GO READ MY POST. Great using those numbers, which mean nothing.

If you haven't figured it out by now, the whiny bitch brigade of which Willie is a leader, generally only sees one side of the court.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I just want Kevin to bring out the 2nd Great Midwest Conference championship trophy and banner so we can properly display it at the Al.  This is where it belongs, not in his imagination.

[willie warrior]

GO READ MY POST. Great using those numbers, which mean nothing.

Sure they do--you have been owned!!!!

[NavinRJohnson]

Sure they do--you have been owned!!!!

Just stupid. Bottom line, if he did play an additional +/- 6 minutes a game, of course his average would go up, and he likely would average 20 PPG, or close to it. So, what? That's good for Gardner, but what is the net impact on the team? The numbers you posted do mean absolutely nothing. The question isn't really would his average go up? it would. The correct question is, should it be done?

You have to subtract whatever scoring is coming from the guy(s) current'y getting those minutes. Tough to do, but I think its safe to assume a point or two, so the 4 points you are gaining is down to  maybe 2 or 3. What's the impact in the defensive end? Again, tough to say, but I am comfortable assuming it would ultimately be negative. So if the overall net impact, is neutral or negative, what's the point?

What some of you whiners refuse or are incapable of recognizing, whether its Gardner, Dawson, Thomas, etc., is that he's one of five having to play both ends of the floor for a forty minute game.

In the 8 games he played 30+ this year, his production was up. The team was 4-4. In the games he didn't play 30+ they are 13-7, so while his production may be up, it certainly hasn't translated to more wins.

[Lennys Tap]

A normal distribution for a guy playing 26 minutes per game would be 13 minutes on offense and 13 minutes on defense. The way Buzz subs offense for defense, Davante's 26 minutes are probably more like 15 on offense and 11 on defense, so he's already the equivalent of a 30 minute per game player offensively. So what's the fuss about?

[brandx]

I want Gardner fresh and not in foul trouble the last 8 min of the game.  This strategy ensures that.

+1

At 300 pounds... ahem, 270, I mean.... he would never last playing 35 minutes a game.

[CTWarrior]

A normal distribution for a guy playing 26 minutes per game would be 13 minutes on offense and 13 minutes on defense. The way Buzz subs offense for defense, Davante's 26 minutes are probably more like 15 on offense and 11 on defense, so he's already the equivalent of a 30 minute per game player offensively. So what's the fuss about?

This is a good point, although your time estimates are just WAGs.  It bothered me last night that Buzz switched to the defensive lineup late and Georgetown came down and quickly fired up and made a three, and we had to waste a timeout to get Gardner back in.  Can't complain too much, though, as Buzz saves his timeouts so he can do that when he needs to and we still had TOs left at the end of the game.  

The thing is, Gardner is better than Otule, but I like Otule as a player and he has some good things to offer.  Too bad they can't co-exist on the floor.  In the end, this particular team needs Gardner's offense more than it needs Otule's defense.  

I think Buzz handles their minutes just about right.

[PGsHeroes32]

GO READ MY POST. Great using those numbers, which mean nothing.

How do they mean nothing? Glad I saw willie posted this because I was just about to.

It was stated "how do we know he would remain effective with over 30 minutes"

Well...

there is your answer.

[brandx]

In the 8 games he played 30+ this year, his production was up. The team was 4-4. In the games he didn't play 30+ they are 13-7, so while his production may be up, it certainly hasn't translated to more wins.

As Chicos would say - you're comparing apples to oranges. Of course the team record is going to be worse when his playing time is up.

They are playing better teams!!!!  It's not like he's going to play 35 minutes against Grambling.

[NavinRJohnson]

As Chicos would say - you're comparing apples to oranges. Of course the team record is going to be worse when his playing time is up.

They are playing better teams!!!!  It's not like he's going to play 35 minutes against Grambling.

Understood. Unlike those saying his playing more would necessarily make the team better as opposed to just raising his average, I completely acknowledge the somewhat faulty logic in which i am engaging. Fact is, its tough to quantify. Difference is some try to state this stuff as fact, I don't.

[brandx]

Understood. Unlike those saying his playing more would necessarily make the team better as opposed to just raising his average, I completely acknowledge the somewhat faulty logic in which i am engaging. Fact is, its tough to quantify. Difference is some try to state this stuff as fact, I don't.

I agree with what you were saying, though. I think it would hurt the team if DG played 35 a game. At 25 to 30, he is pretty fresh at the end of the game. A couple times when he played more, he didn't have the energy at the end.

[willie warrior]

If you haven't figured it out by now, the whiny bitch brigade of which Willie is a leader, generally only sees one side of the court.

hank you name caller, except I do see both sides of the court. Sorry that you do not agree with my observations, which is of course why you throw out the insults.

[🏀]

How do they mean nothing? Glad I saw willie posted this because I was just about to.

It was stated "how do we know he would remain effective with over 30 minutes"

Well...

there is your answer.

Did you not read it? His defense sucks even worse in the 2nd half than the 1st half. His shooting percentage is also down in the 2nd half from the 1st half in those games over 30 minutes. Except for ASU.

How is this so hard? Davante has immense fatigue issues. He plays the amount of minutes he can play while maintaining effectiveness.

[brandx]

Did you not read it? His defense sucks even worse in the 2nd half than the 1st half. His shooting percentage is also down in the 2nd half from the 1st half in those games over 30 minutes. Except for ASU.

How is this so hard? Davante has immense fatigue issues. He plays the amount of minutes he can play while maintaining effectiveness.

+1

[Coleman]

Don't know where you get the 23 of 27 from, but accepting that, "almost always has the chance" is sort of like saying that if you hang around Kate Upton's place, you almost always have the chance of meeting her and scoring. Getting the tip means the next possession decision goes to the other team.

Yeah, and therefore in about half of the games where Otule wins the tip, MU gets an extra possession.

I got the number from last night's broadcast. The announcers mentioned it.

[MarquetteDano]

I just want Kevin to bring out the 2nd Great Midwest Conference championship trophy and banner so we can properly display it at the Al.  This is where it belongs, not in his imagination.

LOL.  I wondered about that last night when he said it.  I thought to myself "I know I was drunk a lot in the 90's but I can't believe I forgot about a league title?"

[MUSF]

There's a reason KO sits behind a microphone now and not on the sideline.