This is just obnoxious

[willie warrior]

Sigh...I don't have the energy to read this entire thread. But to respond to the OP.

Davante has enough people telling him he is great. To keep him grounded, Buzz criticizes his play.

Derrick has enough people telling him he is awful (not just on here, people have contacted him directly to scream at him). To get his confidence up, Buzz talks him up.

I use this strategy as a supervisor all the time. I challenge my star employees so they don't get content and push themselves even more. I do this up to the point that they get frustrated (if they ever get there) and then I switch to supporting them. My less than stellar employees I support them so they don't lose hope and gain confidence. I do this until they either become star employees, or they are to the point of being a  significant detriment to the team. Then I challenge them to step up or be let go.

It's called Samford's Theory of Challenge and Support. It is a widely used strategy and has been employed by thousands of supervisors and many coaches in all sports.

Just out of curiosity, does that include lying to people? Like Buzz saying Derrick is a game changer and the best defender he has ever coached--neither which is true. Do you tell your less than stellar clerk employee: "You are the best we have ever had here; or an average analyst: "you are the best analyst I have ever had employed" etc. Those serve nobody well when evaluating performance. You can call them motivational techniques, or spin, or BS or lies. I guess it is all OK, as long as nobody's "feelings" are hurt. The old ends justify the means.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Just out of curiosity, does that include lying to people? Like Buzz saying Derrick is a game changer and the best defender he has ever coached--neither which is true. Do you tell your less than stellar clerk employee: "You are the best we have ever had here; or an average analyst: "you are the best analyst I have ever had employed" etc. Those serve nobody well when evaluating performance. You can call them motivational techniques, or spin, or BS or lies. I guess it is all OK, as long as nobody's "feelings" are hurt. The old ends justify the means.

Honestly, yes. I have had employees tell me or ask if they are the best at something. Even if they are, I tell them "no, far from it." On the flip side, I have had dud employees who have asked me if their coworkers hate them for ruining a project, I tell them "No. You screwed up but they have moved on. Get it right next time" even if I had one of their coworkers in their 5 minutes earlier venting about him.

I suppose it is a form of lying but it is all to get the best out of individual employees.

[Sunbelt15]

Just out of curiosity, does that include lying to people? Like Buzz saying Derrick is a game changer and the best defender he has ever coached--neither which is true. Do you tell your less than stellar clerk employee: "You are the best we have ever had here; or an average analyst: "you are the best analyst I have ever had employed" etc. Those serve nobody well when evaluating performance. You can call them motivational techniques, or spin, or BS or lies. I guess it is all OK, as long as nobody's "feelings" are hurt. The old ends justify the means.

That's probably why Derrick's skill level hasn't raised. Buzz has put in his head that he's already the best.

[BenCat12]

TAMU,
I agree with everything you said as I use these techniques to motivate as well.  My problem is these techniques are being used in public.  Do you use them publically?  At a conference, meeting or banquet?  To the local paper?  Do you tell everyone at a company meeting or conference that your best employ is terrible at something, with no hint of sarcasm?  I doubt it, as making these techniques public is rare and I can't think of another coach or boss, who does this.    

Again, not a huge deal, I use the technique myself, but doesn't make a lot of sense to say these things publically.  

[GGGG]

Do the players seem bothered by any of this?

If not, then this is simply a dumb criticism. 

[PVMagic]

Do the players seem bothered by any of this?

If not, then this is simply a dumb criticism. 

This.  How many former players have raved about his style (even if admitting that it at one point seemed unorthodox or took some getting used to).

[BenCat12]

Do the players seem bothered by any of this?

If not, then this is simply a dumb criticism. 

This.  How many former players have raved about his style (even if admitting that it at one point seemed unorthodox or took some getting used to).

Unless I am missing something, I don't think anyone has a problem with the style or the technique of motivating this way.  But why say it publically?  It makes zero sense to publically praise your most one dimensional player and rip your best overall player.  It makes Buzz look petty, like he is taking shots at all the people who criticize Derrick and praise Davante.  It is not about motivation, that is done at games and practice.  These public comments are strictly to take shots back at guys like Ners......no offense Ners, you were just the first name that came to mind.  It is absolutely pointless and petty for Buzz to make public comments like these.  Rip the players all you want in practice, make Davante cry daily, just don't rip him in the media, looks foolish.

[GGGG]

Unless I am missing something, I don't think anyone has a problem with the style or the technique of motivating this way.  But why say it publically?  It makes zero sense to publically praise your most one dimensional player and rip your best overall player.  It makes Buzz look petty, like he is taking shots at all the people who criticize Derrick and praise Davante.  It is not about motivation, that is done at games and practice.  These public comments are strictly to take shots back at guys like Ners......no offense Ners, you were just the first name that came to mind.  It is absolutely pointless and petty for Buzz to make public comments like these.  Rip the players all you want in practice, make Davante cry daily, just don't rip him in the media, looks foolish.

Your response to this is about 100 times more obnoxious than Buzz's statements.

Buzz has said this sort of stuff publicly long before Scoop got on his players.  It doesn't look foolish.  It doesn't bother the players.

Just a pointless criticism.  And frankly if you are going to align yourself with Haywards and willie on an issue, you probably should second-guess if you are on the right side of things.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Your response to this is about 100 times more obnoxious than Buzz's statements.

Buzz has said this sort of stuff publicly long before Scoop got on his players.  It doesn't look foolish.  It doesn't bother the players.

Just a pointless criticism.  And frankly if you are going to align yourself with Haywards and willie on an issue, you probably should second-guess if you are on the right side of things.

Feeling a little conceited this morning? Just because you have an opposite take doesn't mean you're on the right side of things 

[GGGG]

Feeling a little conceited this morning? Just because you have an opposite take doesn't mean you're on the right side of things 

Oh...I'll add you to the list too.

[MU B2002]

  These public comments are strictly to take shots back at guys like Ners......no offense Ners, you were just the first name that came to mind.  It is absolutely pointless and petty for Buzz to make public comments like these.  Rip the players all you want in practice, make Davante cry daily, just don't rip him in the media, looks foolish.

Hold up, you honestly think that Buzz is doing all this to take shots at some dudes on a message board.

Lol.

[BenCat12]

Hold up, you honestly think that Buzz is doing all this to take shots at some dudes on a message board.

Lol.

Critics in general.  Absolutely.  It serves no other purpose.  Motivation takes place at practice and games, not in a post game interviews.  To take shots at players in this way makes no sense
.  You can't honestly say that Buzz doesn't make some of his comments to shut up critics.  That deserves an LOL!

[mu-rara]

Your response to this is about 100 times more obnoxious than Buzz's statements.

Buzz has said this sort of stuff publicly long before Scoop got on his players.  It doesn't look foolish.  It doesn't bother the players.

Just a pointless criticism.  And frankly if you are going to align yourself with Haywards and willie on an issue, you probably should second-guess if you are on the right side of things.

I am starting to feel like Captain McCluskey.  Just don't have patience to deal with it.  It is good policy to put anyone in the Hayward/willie camp on IGNORE.

[willie warrior]

Feeling a little conceited this morning? Just because you have an opposite take doesn't mean you're on the right side of things 

Sultan always thinks he is right--I think that sometimes can be called narcissism. His definition is "the right side of things" and any different is not.

[willie warrior]

Unless I am missing something, I don't think anyone has a problem with the style or the technique of motivating this way.  But why say it publically?  It makes zero sense to publically praise your most one dimensional player and rip your best overall player.  It makes Buzz look petty, like he is taking shots at all the people who criticize Derrick and praise Davante.  It is not about motivation, that is done at games and practice.  These public comments are strictly to take shots back at guys like Ners......no offense Ners, you were just the first name that came to mind.  It is absolutely pointless and petty for Buzz to make public comments like these.  Rip the players all you want in practice, make Davante cry daily, just don't rip him in the media, looks foolish.

I agree--rip them in practice all you want--as long as it is not abusive. But also give them opportunity to defend themselves in practice--maybe not quite to the level Al did, think he got into a free for all once with Lucas. Would have loved to see that.

[NickelDimer]

Critics in general.  Absolutely.  It serves no other purpose.  Motivation takes place at practice and games, not in a post game interviews.  To take shots at players in this way makes no sense
.  You can't honestly say that Buzz doesn't make some of his comments to shut up critics.  That deserves an LOL!

Yeah, coaches never make public comments to serve as motivation. Everyone knows private, behind closed door statements are much more profound

[willie warrior]

Exactly. I rather doubt Gardner was ever curled up in the fetal position in the bathtub crying because Buzz made him the butt of a joke.

Now, Larry Williams calling out Buzz's job performance in the Milwaukee Journal is a very different matter.

Yeah, and how about Buzz bragging on calling out the refs son when protesting the T on Jake? The guy's mouth does seem to wander on occasion.

[Sunbelt15]

Buzz says what he believes. Why he believes it is his prerogative. No one talks in code that much.

[willie warrior]

Honestly, yes. I have had employees tell me or ask if they are the best at something. Even if they are, I tell them "no, far from it." On the flip side, I have had dud employees who have asked me if their coworkers hate them for ruining a project, I tell them "No. You screwed up but they have moved on. Get it right next time" even if I had one of their coworkers in their 5 minutes earlier venting about him.

I suppose it is a form of lying but it is all to get the best out of individual employees.

OK, and if one of those people doesn't improve and he/she is let go, keep the fingers crossed he/she is not a protected class. Because then the lawsuits come. "All along I was told I was doing good, and then they fired me"
Lying as a motivational technique won't fly as a defense.

[tower912]

I am starting to feel like Captain McCluskey.  Just don't have patience to deal with it.  It is good policy to put anyone in the Hayward/willie camp on IGNORE.

Agreed.   I check in occasionally to see if the leopards change their spots and say something rational, but the ignore button has definitely gotten more use this year than previously.   

[GGGG]

Critics in general.  Absolutely.  It serves no other purpose. 

Sure it does.  It is entertaining for Buzz to share the tidbit.  You honestly think that he was calling out message board posters with post game comments?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

OK, and if one of those people doesn't improve and he/she is let go, keep the fingers crossed he/she is not a protected class. Because then the lawsuits come. "All along I was told I was doing good, and then they fired me"
Lying as a motivational technique won't fly as a defense.

This is true. In order to avoid this I go to extreme lengths to document expectations, conversations, and performance. Every time I lay out expectations for a job/project, I have my employees sign a hard copy stating they understand the expectations and understand that can be let go (or held accountable in some other way) for failing to meet them. Every time I have a verbal conversation, I immediately send them an email summarizing the conversation and asking for feedback if they don't believe that's how the conversation went. I print a hard copy of all of these emails. All of my employees performances are documented on a database run by our HR department.

Firing someone from a state institution is a nightmare and takes a lot of proper maneuvering and documentation. I have had a few challenges to my decisions, none of them have stuck.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU,
I agree with everything you said as I use these techniques to motivate as well.  My problem is these techniques are being used in public.  Do you use them publically?  At a conference, meeting or banquet?  To the local paper?  Do you tell everyone at a company meeting or conference that your best employ is terrible at something, with no hint of sarcasm?  I doubt it, as making these techniques public is rare and I can't think of another coach or boss, who does this.    

Again, not a huge deal, I use the technique myself, but doesn't make a lot of sense to say these things publically.  

Personally, I feel that if Buzz reversed what he was saying when he speaks to the public, it would destroy the effect he was trying to have on his players. "Oh, Buzz yelled at me in practice, but said I was great in the press conference. I must actually be great."

[keefe]

The constant questioning of what Buzz does, given his track record of success, is f*cking mind boggling

Hitler was pretty successful up until that whole Stalingrad thing


(Double Godwin score - Hitler plus Stalin)

[NavinRJohnson]

Yeah, and how about Buzz bragging on calling out the refs son when protesting the T on Jake? The guy's mouth does seem to wander on occasion.

Of all the stupid, misinformed comments you've made here, this one is Hall of Fame caliber. Listening is a skill. You should try it some time. You just make yourself look like a fool with this stuff.