2008 Coaching Carousel

[MUSF]

Present the evidence that Oregon State is only retaining their best coach in 20 years, one who won 20 games just two years ago, because he's the President's brother-in-law and I will consider it.

Otherwise I am not sure what Oregon State is getting (outside of some sort of PR benefit) from retaining him simply because he is President's brother-in-law. 

Are they getting additional federal funding they don't otherwise deserve?

Do you honestly think you are going to get the answer you are looking for from ww? We all know there is zero evidence to support his insinuation.

[avid1010]

yeah right--there is a real lack of evidence out there that friends and family of El Presidente receive any special treatment.

there's benefits to being friends/family with the POTUS?  SHOCKING...almost as good as a law degree from pat robertson's regent university in the bush days.  or the pardon lists from clinton, reagan and carter.  

that said...i wouldn't fire robinson...i would agree he's the best they've had in 20 years.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

absolute free fall In Indiana.  Gotta wonder how the next 4 games for Tommy Naismith shape the off season and future for the guy posing as a basketball coach.  FYI, Iu shot 3 free throws for the game...!!!  If that does not indicate the cluelessness of your coach im not sure what does.

Piece from Tommy's post game last night, simply geting ripped from hoosier fans


Q:  On our second half struggles...You guys have led a lot of games on the road at halftime. What's been the trend in the second half?

TOMMY NAISMITH:  It's a 40 minute game and there are some other teams around the country that lose some leads to...unfortunately we lost a couple of those, but the other teams were pretty good. That's one of the reasons when you're at home and have the guys that can shoot the ball that way it becomes an issue. I think I just covered what happens with the defense and sometimes that's what happens to us on the road.

Those really good teams are Nebraska, PU, Minny and PSU that we blew leads against!  Also tries to rationalize it by saying other teams lose leads.

Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home.  IU beat PSU on the road.  Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home. 

I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years.  Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game.  But hey...you're the coaching expert. 

[avid1010]

Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home.  IU beat PSU on the road.  Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home. 

I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years.  Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game.  But hey...you're the coaching expert. 

why does one have to point out the faults of buzz whenever ripping on TC for being a crap coach/person?

[GGGG]

Do you honestly think you are going to get the answer you are looking for from ww?

Of course not.  The next one will be the first one.

[ChicosBailBonds]

why does one have to point out the faults of buzz whenever ripping on TC for being a crap coach/person?

I thought this thread was about 2008 coaching carousel which included Buzz and TC.....maybe I'm wrong. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home.  IU beat PSU on the road.  Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home. 

I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years.  Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game.  But hey...you're the coaching expert. 

Maybe it's because Gardner can't guard the other team's center at the three point line?

[Eldon]

Eh...it's hard to say.  He inherited a 6-25 team and a terrible program so they are giving him a longer leash.  And he did win 21 games a couple years ago.  I mean, it isn't an exaggeration to say that he is their best coach in over 20 years.

+1

When you are a distant third for "the best OSU in the country," the leash will be (and should be) a long one.

[MUSF]

I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years.  Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game.  But hey...you're the coaching expert. 

Okay, I get what you are trying to say but there are a few problems with your comparisons.

1. UW has difficulty getting to the line at times because the offense Bo runs doesn't rely heavily on dribble penetration or one on one post-ups. That offense has served them very well over Bo's tenure so I don't think anyone really thinks they have a significant problem offensively. IU on the other hand does rely on dribble penetration and has a guy named Yogi Ferrell that can take almost any defender off the dribble. They should be getting to the line. That one game may be an anomaly, but if it is a consistent problem then IU has some issues.

2. You can't compare a single player's shot attempts in a game to an entire team's free throw attempts in a game. You're comparing apples and hammers.

I don't see myself as a regular Crean or Chicos basher, but I think you're grasping at straws here.

[NavinRJohnson]

Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home.  IU beat PSU on the road.  Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home. 

I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years.  Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game.  But hey...you're the coaching expert. 

[NavinRJohnson]

I thought this thread was about 2008 coaching carousel which included Buzz and TC.....maybe I'm wrong. 

Yes, because this is of course, the only thread in which you've done that.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Haha I know Chicos worked in the A.D. while Crean was there (because he has told us all ad nauseum). With Crean's reputation as an abusive employer, I'm beginning to think Chicos is suffering from some bizarre form of Stockholm syndrome re: Crean. Really very strange.

[spartan3186]

It looks like MU won the 2008 Coaching Carousel. 

Ohio had a pretty awesome hire with John Groce. Obviously not the same situation though.

John Groce
85-56 with Ohio (Round of 32 and Sweet 16 Appearance)
23-13 with Illinois (Round of 32 appearance)

[willie warrior]

Present the evidence that Oregon State is only retaining their best coach in 20 years, one who won 20 games just two years ago, because he's the President's brother-in-law and I will consider it.

Otherwise I am not sure what Oregon State is getting (outside of some sort of PR benefit) from retaining him simply because he is President's brother-in-law. 

Are they getting additional federal funding they don't otherwise deserve?

Best defense I have seen yet of El Presidente. The fact that the guy's career record is less than .500 should suggest something. Many times those guys are gone in 4 years. If we were under .500 after 6 years with Buzz, would he still be HC? Doubt it. You probably don't.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, because this is of course, the only thread in which you've done that.

It sure isn't.  So, don't you find it odd that Davante got 2 FG attempts against Creighton and 3 FG attempts against Creighton the second time?  Is that coaching?  Is that guard play not feeding the post?  Is that DG not making himself available?  Clearly, if it was any other of these coaches on this list it was coaching, but in our case what was it? 

[Lennys Tap]

Haha I know Chicos worked in the A.D. while Crean was there (because he has told us all ad nauseum). With Crean's reputation as an abusive employer, I'm beginning to think Chicos is suffering from some bizarre form of Stockholm syndrome re: Crean. Really very strange.

He absolutely defends the bizarre notion that someone can be a bully and an abuser to one's subordinates at work but still be a sweetheart away from the office in "real life". Right out of the TC play book.

[GGGG]

Best defense I have seen yet of El Presidente. The fact that the guy's career record is less than .500 should suggest something. Many times those guys are gone in 4 years. If we were under .500 after 6 years with Buzz, would he still be HC? Doubt it. You probably don't.

Of course Marquette's starting point was much higher than Oregon State's...but don't let that fact get in the way of making your political point.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Who won the 1999 carousel, if you snap the chalk when Crean left? Anyone have a list of other programs who hired new coaches that year?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe it's because Gardner can't guard the other team's center at the three point line?

Could be, but offensively I expected that DG would get more than 2 or 3 FG attempts when we were the ones with the ball.

Maybe we will figure it out the third time.  I felt like I was watching TC utilize Noel Vonleh in the two games DG played against Creighton.  It was a head scratcher to be polite.

[The Lens]

Marquette won the 1999 search and the 2008 search. 

[willie warrior]

Of course Marquette's starting point was much higher than Oregon State's...but don't let that fact get in the way of making your political point.

Always the smartie--it is your fact--no political point intended--unless you were trying to make one.

And answer the question: Would Buzz still be employed by MU if he had less than .500 win %. Already know the answer--for you it would be yes. And why: Because he has compassion and cares. And you worship the hallowed ground he walks on. Don't bother with an answer, but I cannot wait to hear your snarky comments.

[GGGG]

Always the smartie--it is your fact--no political point intended--unless you were trying to make one.

And answer the question: Would Buzz still be employed by MU if he had less than .500 win %. Already know the answer--for you it would be yes. And why: Because he has compassion and cares. And you worship the hallowed ground he walks on. Don't bother with an answer, but I cannot wait to hear your snarky comments.

And you are the one that brought up "El Presidente."  So yeah...you were making a political comment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Okay, I get what you are trying to say but there are a few problems with your comparisons.

1. UW has difficulty getting to the line at times because the offense Bo runs doesn't rely heavily on dribble penetration or one on one post-ups. That offense has served them very well over Bo's tenure so I don't think anyone really thinks they have a significant problem offensively. IU on the other hand does rely on dribble penetration and has a guy named Yogi Ferrell that can take almost any defender off the dribble. They should be getting to the line. That one game may be an anomaly, but if it is a consistent problem then IU has some issues.

2. You can't compare a single player's shot attempts in a game to an entire team's free throw attempts in a game. You're comparing apples and hammers.

I don't see myself as a regular Crean or Chicos basher, but I think you're grasping at straws here.

It's still about strategy, is it not?  Getting to the free throw line is a strategy.  Attack the basket, get fouled, force the action, get rewarded. Its a strategy that has been successful for MU and other teams over the years.  It is a coaching philosophy and strategy IMO.  So, too, is attacking a team with a weak inside defensive scheme with your best player....who for reasons known only to a few, got 2 FG attempts in one game and 3 in another.

So I don't see it as apples to hammers at all.  One coach is questioned for his strategy because his team only got 3 FT attempts, the implication by the poster that they didn't attack enough to earn more trips to the free throw line.  I totally agree, by the way with that conclusion.  My question is why another coach on that same list shouldn't also be questions around a strategy that also has put his team in a lessor position to win, twice...by not having your most potent offensive weapon basically do nothing in two games?

I thought it a fair question, feel free to disagree.  Quite frankly, I don't know why it hasn't been spoken about much more?  Or not fouling when up 3 points at the end of the game?  I'm of the opinion that both coaches that we're talking about have had much better coaching years than the current year.  Neither has impressed in my opinion.

[MUSF]

It's still about strategy, is it not?  Getting to the free throw line is a strategy.  Attack the basket, get fouled, force the action, get rewarded. Its a strategy that has been successful for MU and other teams over the years.  It is a coaching philosophy and strategy IMO.  So, too, is attacking a team with a weak inside defensive scheme with your best player....who for reasons known only to a few, got 2 FG attempts in one game and 3 in another.

So I don't see it as apples to hammers at all.  One coach is questioned for his strategy because his team only got 3 FT attempts, the implication by the poster that they didn't attack enough to earn more trips to the free throw line.  I totally agree, by the way with that conclusion.  My question is why another coach on that same list shouldn't also be questions around a strategy that also has put his team in a lessor position to win, twice...by not having your most potent offensive weapon basically do nothing in two games?

I thought it a fair question, feel free to disagree.  Quite frankly, I don't know why it hasn't been spoken about much more?  Or not fouling when up 3 points at the end of the game?  I'm of the opinion that both coaches that we're talking about have had much better coaching years than the current year.  Neither has impressed in my opinion.

If a team fails to get to the line it's either about the coach's game plan or terrible officiating. If a single player doesn't get shot attempts it could be many different things. I just don't think you are comparing like items when you try to connect the two. Either way, it hasn't been spoken about much because it isn't a trend. DG continues to be a focal point of the offense, and he continues to produce.

I agree with you on the fouling when up 3, but there are definitely two distinct philosophies on that. A coach's philosophy on such a specific scenario is not an indicator of his overall ability. I also agree that both IU and MU have been disappointing this season and both coaches are at least partly responsible. That said, I think it's time to start acknowledge that Crean's entire body of work at IU is starting to look mediocre at best. I don't think the same can be said about Buzz at this point. A few more seasons like this one may change that.

Your attempts to draw comparisons between Crean and Buzz's performance is not effective, IMO. Pointing out Buzz's possible shortcomings doesn't prove anything about Crean's and it also makes you look overly critical / anti-Buzz. I guess I don't see the point.