At this point

[MerrittsMustache]

and you hit the point that frustrates the most:

"Get used to it, because Derrick will be the man again next year"

will be real interesting to see what Buzz does next year:

1)  Don't think Derrick has too much of a higher ceiling
2)  Buzz does love him
3)  Alternatives - Dawson / Du Wilson still unproven next year as they did not play this year
4)  Buzz not going to start an incoming freshman if we had a PG recruit
5)  Less talent in the front court overall gonna need a great PG to balance next year

not sure next year any better unless something changes...

Both Duane and Dawson will have a year of experience in a D1 basketball program, plus the on-campus offseason. Being "unproven" will have nothing to do with who plays.

Buzz loved Derrick last year too but that didn't prevent him from starting a more talented player and giving Derrick just 13 min per. Buzz also loves Otule and thinks DG is lazy, but he still gives Gardner a bulk of the minutes. The notion of a high-major D1 basketball coach "playing favorites" is asinine.

[Texas Western]

Have you seen Burton play D? Of course not! No one has! He's going to be one helluva player for MU but his defense needs a ton of work. JJJ has been battling an ankle injury for a few weeks now. He got extended minutes against St. John's and didn't do much. Why do teams need to respect Dawson's offense? Because he hit 2 threes in a game a month ago? He's shooting under 30% for the season, take away G'town and he's shooting under 25%. These 3 guys are each going to be difference-makers for MU in the future but they're not there yet.

4 of Marquette's last 6 recruiting classes have been ranked in the top 20, including 2013 (11th) and 2014 (19th).

Marquette was in a dogfight with a very good New Mexico team (in Vegas, which is a 12-hour drive from Clovis, NM) yet you think Buzz should have given an unproven freshman a few minutes as "a cheap form of good will." Really?! Should Steve Taylor's mom be in charge of bringing a team snack to the DePaul game since he's from Chicago?

Given Marquette's small margin for error, 5 minutes in each half could be enough to turn a win into a loss.

Keith Appling was a McDonald's All-American who played 23 minutes/game as a frosh, not a "handful of minutes" that were basically to get him D1 experience.

The point is each of the three freshman bring something very positive to the table. Yes they are young and have room to grow. On the other hand the  players that are getting the minutes  are also not without significant liabilities. My point is that the athletic abilities of the freshman are something this team is desperate need of today.

This years recruiting class was more high profile than year past, plus we are in a new conference so the stakes are higher in making sure the experience is good in my view. We can't just offer a Big East position, because that Big East no longer exists.

As to the point of parent bringing snacks. Magic Johnson's mother would show up at all the LA LAKERS games in Detroit with sweet potato pie. So yes these things do matter.  

Seriously would five minutes a half less of Derick Jake Juan make a big difference?

Keith Appling did not get the majority of his minutes his freshman year until after Korie Luscious was kicked off the team. JJJ has the same level of ability up front that Appling had going into MSU. Yes he had his ankle injury and I understand that can be chronic, but the kid is flat out on another level in terms of explosiveness. His body language shows that our coach doesn't believe in him and that is an important factor in success.

[mattyv1908]

To anyone who would argue that Wilson is doing what Cadougan did for us, here's some numbers to shed some light on the situation.


Junior Cadougan attempted 62 3 point FG's last year making only 14 for a .226 rate.  He played in all 35 games last year attempting 1.8 3 point FG's per game.

Derrick Wilson has attempted 13 3 point FG's this year making only 1 for a .077 rate.  He has played in all 26 games so fare attempting .5 3 point FG's per game.


Was Cadougan a great shooter?  No.
Did he still need to keep his man honest?  Yes.

At the end of the day Cadougan kept teams honest.  He didn't shoot well but he took enough shots and enough went in that his defender had to account for him and it enabled him to get to the basket off the dribble and find open shooters because his defender couldn't sag into the lane.

It's night and day the difference he had on last years team compared to who's running the point this year.  Derrick Wilson is playing a lot better the last 6 games or so but to claim he's doing the same things Cadougan did is an outright lie.

[GGGG]

Both Duane and Dawson will have a year of experience in a D1 basketball program, plus the on-campus offseason. Being "unproven" will have nothing to do with who plays.

Buzz loved Derrick last year too but that didn't prevent him from starting a more talented player and giving Derrick just 13 min per. Buzz also loves Otule and thinks DG is lazy, but he still gives Gardner a bulk of the minutes. The notion of a high-major D1 basketball coach "playing favorites" is asinine.

Exactly.

If Dawson or Duane earns the time, they will play ahead of Derrick.  Hell, Buzz was giving more time to Dawson just a couple weeks ago until he had a set back.

[79Warrior]

You're right, I should have checked. How many other Top 100 schools would Juan be playing anywhere near 9.5 minutes? Especially when he is on the floor t the same time as a PG who isn't guarded five feet from the basket?

Great point that gets overlooked. When JA is on the floor the same time as DW the defense has two guys they can sag off from because neither JA or DW will shoot the ball beyond a layup. Anderson and Wilson are not offensive threats so virtually everyone else gets doubled up.

No way we beat any good team when TWO players on the court will never shoot. Our 11 losses so far would agree.

Perplexing season because JA is getting more time than ST or JJJ and I for sure thought both were better than JA. I certainly hope it is not an ability issue becasue if it is then we are in for a world of hurt next year. I get ST has been hurt, but something does not feel right.

[MerrittsMustache]

The point is each of the three freshman bring something very positive to the table. Yes they are young and have room to grow. On the other hand the  players that are getting the minutes  are also not without significant liabilities. My point is that the athletic abilities of the freshman are something this team is desperate need of today.

This years recruiting class was more high profile than year past, plus we are in a new conference so the stakes are higher in making sure the experience is good in my view. We can't just offer a Big East position, because that Big East no longer exists.

As to the point of parent bringing snacks. Magic Johnson's mother would show up at all the LA LAKERS games in Detroit with sweet potato pie. So yes these things do matter.  

Seriously would five minutes a half less of Derick Jake Juan make a big difference?

Keith Appling did not get the majority of his minutes his freshman year until after Korie Luscious was kicked off the team. JJJ has the same level of ability up front that Appling had going into MSU. Yes he had his ankle injury and I understand that can be chronic, but the kid is flat out on another level in terms of explosiveness. His body language shows that our coach doesn't believe in him and that is an important factor in success.

True, the frosh do bring something positive to the table. However, in the coaches' minds, they bring fewer positives and/or more negatives than the current players seeing a bulk of the minutes.

So...once a year Lakers players in the 80s would get homemade sweet potato pie and that's why New Mexico native John Dawson should have played in a game in Las Vegas as a way to help recruiting?

Appling played 19.6 min before Lucious was booted. How was his body language though?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sigh...so much illogical thinking going on in this thread. I don't even know where to begin. I know, let's organize it:

Can we make the tournament?
Two days ago a majority of this board was talking about how we needed to go at least 4-2 or 5-1 to have a shot at the tournament. Then we lost. Even though the pregame prediction allowed for up to two losses, somehow this board has forgetten that. Please try to have memories that last longer than the last game Marquette played. Do I think we make the tournament? Honestly, no. I think it requires winning @NOVA and we are terrible in Philly. But I am sure hella glad that my coach is a Warrior who is going to fight until the bitter end. We play to win now, that is what Buzz is paid for.

Do the freshmen deserve more playing time?
No. If they could help us WIN RIGHT NOW, they would be playing. An argument could be made that if we had played them sooner that we would be better now. That is POSSIBLY true but there is no way to prove it. However, if we played the freshmen earlier, I would bet a lot of money that we would have even more losses and wouldn't even be in this conversation. We pay Buzz to win now. There is no higher draft pick in college to tank for. Even if we go 0-5, we can still win the BET. The upperclassmen give us a better shot at that.

Will the freshmen transfer because of playing time?
Let's think about this logically. If you accept the premise that the freshmen want more playing time right now, then why would they transfer? Next season at least one of them will HAVE to start (unless we have a really good freshmen) and if they aren't starting, they will be the first options off the bench. If they transfer, then they will get ZERO playing time next year as they will have to sit out. In two years, they will be the stars of this team as their will be only one Senior ahead of them. Meanwhile, if they transferred, they would be just getting to play now and would probably be getting the same if not less PT that they would have gotten for Marquette. The ONLY time transferring for PT makes sense is if you think that a player younger than you is going to be above you on the depth chart. That's why I hold that Dawson may transfer because Duane is now in a lower class than he is. I hope he doesn't, kid has talent. These players picked Marquette for more reasons than just PT. Trust those other reasons.

Also, these freshmen are in the top 7 in freshmen minutes during the Buzz era. Only Mayo, Vander, Gardner, and Maymon had more. If Buzz is half the man I think he is, I am sure he would have given these frosh heads up about what kind of PT they could expect.

Will frosh playing time this year negatively impact recruiting?
This is an argument I am more willing to accept. However, I think it is flawed. I truly believe that Buzz plays the players who give us the best chance of winning. If we accept this premise, then we must assume that the freshmen would be getting even less playing time at teams that are better than us. Buzz can counter any concerns a recruit has about PT but simply stating that the players who give us the best chance to win will play. Every HS student thinks that they will help a college team win. And if they don't think that they can help us win, then we probably don't want them.

So yes, I think an opposing coach could point to freshmen PT and try to sway recruits away from us. But the only teams that can do that are teams who are worse than us, so we have the upper hand on them in other ways. Our freshmen would not be starting at 95% of the teams that are better than us this year.

Recruits choose schools for more than immediate playing time.

Derrick
He has improved greatly over the past few games. Next season no longer gives me a pit in my stomach. Yes, I wish he could shoot a three. He's got the form, he just needs to make them. I hope he takes 1000 threes a day every day of the off season. But Derrick is still the best option we have at point right now. To say otherwise is simply not true.

I would respond to specific posters...there was a plethora of logical fallacies. But I signed the NEP. Just got my 1 week sober pin. Don't want to lose that.

Juan
I just saw the line of comments about Juan Anderson not getting 9.5 mpg at any other top 100 school. Again, just flat out false.

Juan gets enough minutes to qualify as our third option off the bench. He gets 3.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.0 apg, and 1.0 spg.

Let's compare him to other 3rd off the bench players in the BEast.
Creighton: Will Artino-6.3, 3.7 rpg, 0.3 apg, 0.3 bpg (advantage Artino)
Villanova: Tony Chenault, 3.0 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 0.7 spg (Advantage Anderson)
Xavier: Brandon Randolph, 3.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.7 apg, 0.4 spg (advantage Anderson)
St. John's: Jamal Branch, 4.2 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 1.8 apg, 0.6 spg (push)
Providence: Ted Bancroft, 0.5 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.1 apg, 0.3 spg (advantage Anderson)
Georgetown: Moses Ayegba, 2.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.2 apg, 0.7 bpg (advantage Anderson)
Seton Hall: Haralds Karlis, 1.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.3 spg (advantage Anderson)
Buter: Jackson Aldridge, 1.7 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.5 apg, .333 3P (advantage Anderson)
Depaul: Greg Sequele, 1.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.1 apg, 0.4 bpg (advantage Anderson)

So basically every team in the Big East besides Creighton and St. John's would be improved if they got the same level of production out of their 3rd bench player as Marquette does out of Juan Anderson. We fans simply have too high of expectations for a bench player.

The one thing I will agree with is that I expect a junior to be either starting or at the top of our bench. I would rather lose Juan's senior year if he's going to be our third option of the bench and sign someone with more upside.

[NavinRJohnson]

Why don't some of you clowns compare the numbers of Junior C as a Junior and Derrick Wilson as a Freshman, to Derrick as a Junior and Dawson as a Freshman. I think you'll find a whole lot of similarities.

Junior is a little better player, but the other difference is that he was playing along side 3 guys who have played in the NBA or at least gotten a serious look (Crowder, DJO, and Blue). Wilson of course, is not.

[MerrittsMustache]

Why don't some of you clowns compare the numbers of Junior C as a Junior and Derrick Wilson as a Freshman, to Derrick as a Junior and Dawson as a Freshman. I think you'll find a whole lot of similarities.

Junior is a little better player, but the other difference is that he was playing along side 3 guys who have played in the NBA or at least gotten a serious look (Crowder, DJO, and Blue). Wilson of course, is not.

Clown, here. See links below...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&junior-cadougan=2011-2012&p1=junior-cadougan

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?derrick-wilson=2011-2012&p2=derrick-wilson&p3=john-dawson&remove=junior-cadougan

[Texas Western]

True, the frosh do bring something positive to the table. However, in the coaches' minds, they bring fewer positives and/or more negatives than the current players seeing a bulk of the minutes.

So...once a year Lakers players in the 80s would get homemade sweet potato pie and that's why New Mexico native John Dawson should have played in a game in Las Vegas as a way to help recruiting?

Appling played 19.6 min before Lucious was booted. How was his body language though?

Yes your first point is true, the coaches see it that way. I guess I see it differently.  I can tell you from personal experience families matter, as a matter of fact some coaches will tell you up front they are recruiting the family just as much as the kid. I am not the only person on this board who brought up the fact that it was a faux pas not getting Dawson in that New Mexico game.  Dean Smith used to bring in all the subs with 2 minutes to go before Halftime. It can be done with out sacrificing competitiveness.  Finally, Your actually making my point for me on JJJ. Appling got real playing time, he had lots of ups and downs that first year and Izzo worked through them because he knew there was a pot of gold at the end. MSU had a kid named Mike Kebler who was essentially the Jake of their team. Kebler worked his rear end off and got meaningful playing time in big games, it was well deserved but it was in proportion to his ability.  We need more of an investment in JJJ playing time in my view as I think he will be worth it.  I would settle for 10 but yes it should be more like what Appling got.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes your first point is true, the coaches see it that way. I guess I see it differently.  I can tell you from personal experience families matter, as a matter of fact some coaches will tell you up front they are recruiting the family just as much as the kid. I am not the only person on this board who brought up the fact that it was a faux pas not getting Dawson in that New Mexico game.  Dean Smith used to bring in all the subs with 2 minutes to go before Halftime. It can be done with out sacrificing competitiveness.  Finally, Your actually making my point for me on JJJ. Appling got real playing time, he had lots of ups and downs that first year and Izzo worked through them because he knew there was a pot of gold at the end. MSU had a kid named Mike Kebler who was essentially the Jake of their team. Kebler worked his rear end off and got meaningful playing time in big games, it was well deserved but it was in proportion to his ability.  We need more of an investment in JJJ playing time in my view as I think he will be worth it.  I would settle for 10 but yes it should be more like what Appling got.

Please cite a source showing that Dean Smith used to do that. I find it hard to believe.

You realize that the game against New Mexico wasn't IN New Mexico, right? It was in Vegas, 12 hours away from Dawson's hometown. If I was a parent (or recruit) and a coach put an undeserving player into a tightly-contested game simply because it happened to be in the same general vicinity as his hometown, I'd think that the coach isn't serious about winning.

To each his own.

[ronald dragon]

I've always backed DWill and will continue to do so, he has to start taking some midrange shots though. If he can keep his opponent out a little more on him he will be able to get a ton more blow by drives. He has the ability to get recruited and pay for a high D-1 college,  i imagine that he should be able to knock down a few 10 to 15 footers

[MarquetteDano]

NM

[Hards Alumni]

Have you seen Burton play D? Of course not! No one has! He's going to be one helluva player for MU but his defense needs a ton of work. JJJ has been battling an ankle injury for a few weeks now. He got extended minutes against St. John's and didn't do much. Why do teams need to respect Dawson's offense? Because he hit 2 threes in a game a month ago? He's shooting under 30% for the season, take away G'town and he's shooting under 25%. These 3 guys are each going to be difference-makers for MU in the future but they're not there yet.


4 of Marquette's last 6 recruiting classes have been ranked in the top 20, including 2013 (11th) and 2014 (19th).

Marquette was in a dogfight with a very good New Mexico team (in Vegas, which is a 12-hour drive from Clovis, NM) yet you think Buzz should have given an unproven freshman a few minutes as "a cheap form of good will." Really?! Should Steve Taylor's mom be in charge of bringing a team snack to the DePaul game since he's from Chicago?

Given Marquette's small margin for error, 5 minutes in each half could be enough to turn a win into a loss.

Keith Appling was a McDonald's All-American who played 23 minutes/game as a frosh, not a "handful of minutes" that were basically to get him D1 experience.

Yup nailed it.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Why don't some of you clowns compare the numbers of Junior C as a Junior and Derrick Wilson as a Freshman, to Derrick as a Junior and Dawson as a Freshman. I think you'll find a whole lot of similarities.

Junior is a little better player, but the other difference is that he was playing along side 3 guys who have played in the NBA or at least gotten a serious look (Crowder, DJO, and Blue). Wilson of course, is not.

And the other differences are Jr could shoot 3's, pass to the post, and get teammates easy looks.

[madtownwarrior]

you forgot that:

1)  Junior did not have players sagging 10 feet off of him causing havoc for the rest of the team
2)  Junior could drive in traffic and make baskets, not just uncontested layups

And the other differences are Jr could shoot 3's, pass to the post, and get teammates easy looks.

[madtownwarrior]

you forgot that:

1)  Junior did not have players sagging 10 feet off of him causing havoc for the rest of the team
2)  Junior could drive in traffic and make baskets, not just uncontested layups

but Wilson did raise his 3pth shooting percentage from 0.0% to 7.7% from Freshman to Junior year

[NersEllenson]

Actually it is very simple..."Derrick Wilson is the best point guard on Marquette's roster right now."

No one is making excuses...that is a simple and basic fact that addresses all counter-points.  Marquette's offense is actually functioning very well the last few games.  Derrick had six assists and one turnover (an offensive foul), went 3-6 with seven points.  Not stellar by any means, but better production than anyone else IMO.

3-6, 7 points and 6 assists would be a serviceable enough line for a PG in 40 minutes - if the result of that PG playing didn't negatively trickle down to affect the other 4 players on the floor with him.  It is the exact opposite scenario of what a PG should be for a basketball team - a guy who makes everyone around him better.  When he doesn't need to be defended within 8 feet on the perimeter....that makes it incredibly hard for everyone else playing with him...

Buzz has said we are playing 4 on 5 with him on the court.  He concedes it.  Knows it.  Keeps rolling with it for 32+ minutes per game.  

As I've said about 10 times for everyone who wanted to look to Dawson's poor game against Seton Hall as evidence he is in no way ready, or better than Derrick - AS BAD AS DAWSON WAS IN HIS 9 MINUTES AGAINST SETON HALL.....WE ACTUALLY GREW OUR LEAD FROM 6 TO 8 POINTS.  HE WASN'T A NET NEGATIVE IN THAT STRETCH...EVEN THOUGH HE WAS FAR AND AWAY AS BAD AS HE'S BEEN AT ANY POINT.  How could this be, given that Dawson is so weak on defense (allegedly), and that we grew a lead with our best defender on the bench?

Just by virtue of Dawson needing to be guarded on the perimeter, that in and of itself makes the team better...for 4 other teammates on the floor with him!

[NersEllenson]

Exactly.

If Dawson or Duane earns the time, they will play ahead of Derrick.  Hell, Buzz was giving more time to Dawson just a couple weeks ago until he had a set back.

Yeah...Buzz gave Dawson all of 9 minutes against Nova after his really good performance against GTown on the road.  Would think that might have "earned" him a little more...

[ecompt]

Sigh...so much illogical thinking going on in this thread. I don't even know where to begin. I know, let's organize it:

Can we make the tournament?
Two days ago a majority of this board was talking about how we needed to go at least 4-2 or 5-1 to have a shot at the tournament. Then we lost. Even though the pregame prediction allowed for up to two losses, somehow this board has forgetten that. Please try to have memories that last longer than the last game Marquette played. Do I think we make the tournament? Honestly, no. I think it requires winning @NOVA and we are terrible in Philly. But I am sure hella glad that my coach is a Warrior who is going to fight until the bitter end. We play to win now, that is what Buzz is paid for.

Do the freshmen deserve more playing time?
No. If they could help us WIN RIGHT NOW, they would be playing. An argument could be made that if we had played them sooner that we would be better now. That is POSSIBLY true but there is no way to prove it. However, if we played the freshmen earlier, I would bet a lot of money that we would have even more losses and wouldn't even be in this conversation. We pay Buzz to win now. There is no higher draft pick in college to tank for. Even if we go 0-5, we can still win the BET. The upperclassmen give us a better shot at that.

Will the freshmen transfer because of playing time?
Let's think about this logically. If you accept the premise that the freshmen want more playing time right now, then why would they transfer? Next season at least one of them will HAVE to start (unless we have a really good freshmen) and if they aren't starting, they will be the first options off the bench. If they transfer, then they will get ZERO playing time next year as they will have to sit out. In two years, they will be the stars of this team as their will be only one Senior ahead of them. Meanwhile, if they transferred, they would be just getting to play now and would probably be getting the same if not less PT that they would have gotten for Marquette. The ONLY time transferring for PT makes sense is if you think that a player younger than you is going to be above you on the depth chart. That's why I hold that Dawson may transfer because Duane is now in a lower class than he is. I hope he doesn't, kid has talent. These players picked Marquette for more reasons than just PT. Trust those other reasons.

Also, these freshmen are in the top 7 in freshmen minutes during the Buzz era. Only Mayo, Vander, Gardner, and Maymon had more. If Buzz is half the man I think he is, I am sure he would have given these frosh heads up about what kind of PT they could expect.

Will frosh playing time this year negatively impact recruiting?
This is an argument I am more willing to accept. However, I think it is flawed. I truly believe that Buzz plays the players who give us the best chance of winning. If we accept this premise, then we must assume that the freshmen would be getting even less playing time at teams that are better than us. Buzz can counter any concerns a recruit has about PT but simply stating that the players who give us the best chance to win will play. Every HS student thinks that they will help a college team win. And if they don't think that they can help us win, then we probably don't want them.

So yes, I think an opposing coach could point to freshmen PT and try to sway recruits away from us. But the only teams that can do that are teams who are worse than us, so we have the upper hand on them in other ways. Our freshmen would not be starting at 95% of the teams that are better than us this year.

Recruits choose schools for more than immediate playing time.

Derrick
He has improved greatly over the past few games. Next season no longer gives me a pit in my stomach. Yes, I wish he could shoot a three. He's got the form, he just needs to make them. I hope he takes 1000 threes a day every day of the off season. But Derrick is still the best option we have at point right now. To say otherwise is simply not true.

I would respond to specific posters...there was a plethora of logical fallacies. But I signed the NEP. Just got my 1 week sober pin. Don't want to lose that.

Juan
I just saw the line of comments about Juan Anderson not getting 9.5 mpg at any other top 100 school. Again, just flat out false.

Juan gets enough minutes to qualify as our third option off the bench. He gets 3.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.0 apg, and 1.0 spg.

Let's compare him to other 3rd off the bench players in the BEast.
Creighton: Will Artino-6.3, 3.7 rpg, 0.3 apg, 0.3 bpg (advantage Artino)
Villanova: Tony Chenault, 3.0 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 0.7 spg (Advantage Anderson)
Xavier: Brandon Randolph, 3.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.7 apg, 0.4 spg (advantage Anderson)
St. John's: Jamal Branch, 4.2 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 1.8 apg, 0.6 spg (push)
Providence: Ted Bancroft, 0.5 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.1 apg, 0.3 spg (advantage Anderson)
Georgetown: Moses Ayegba, 2.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.2 apg, 0.7 bpg (advantage Anderson)
Seton Hall: Haralds Karlis, 1.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.3 spg (advantage Anderson)
Buter: Jackson Aldridge, 1.7 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.5 apg, .333 3P (advantage Anderson)
Depaul: Greg Sequele, 1.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.1 apg, 0.4 bpg (advantage Anderson)

So basically every team in the Big East besides Creighton and St. John's would be improved if they got the same level of production out of their 3rd bench player as Marquette does out of Juan Anderson. We fans simply have too high of expectations for a bench player.

The one thing I will agree with is that I expect a junior to be either starting or at the top of our bench. I would rather lose Juan's senior year if he's going to be our third option of the bench and sign someone with more upside.

The stuff on Juan would be great except for the fact that he has STARTED games this year and has been on the floor several times with DWill, Jake and Chris. It's nothing per se against Juan, but he has lost all confidence in his crap.

[MerrittsMustache]

As I've said about 10 times for everyone who wanted to look to Dawson's poor game against Seton Hall as evidence he is in no way ready, or better than Derrick - AS BAD AS DAWSON WAS IN HIS 9 MINUTES AGAINST SETON HALL.....WE ACTUALLY GREW OUR LEAD FROM 6 TO 8 POINTS.  HE WASN'T A NET NEGATIVE IN THAT STRETCH...EVEN THOUGH HE WAS FAR AND AWAY AS BAD AS HE'S BEEN AT ANY POINT.  How could this be, given that Dawson is so weak on defense (allegedly), and that we grew a lead with our best defender on the bench?

Just by virtue of Dawson needing to be guarded on the perimeter, that in and of itself makes the team better...for 4 other teammates on the floor with him!

Let's break down those 9 minutes, shall we?

12:31 Dawson checks in
12:13 Mayo hits 2 FTs (+2)
11:56 Steal by Jamil
11:27 Gardner scores on off reb (+4)
11:14 Steal by Jamil
11:08 Gardner hits 2 FTs (+6)
10:24 SHU lay-up (+4)
9:54 Gardner scores on off reb (+6)
9:38 Foul on Dawson, SHU misses 2 FTs
8:58 SHU lay-up (+4)
8:37 TO by Jake
8:18 Burton misses a jumper
8:16 Mayo misses a 3
8:08 SHU makes a 3 (+1)
7:56 TO by Dawson
7:46 TO by SHU
7:30 TO by Dawson
6:58 SHU makes a 3 (-2)
6:35 Juan scores on off reb (E)
6:19 SHU misses a 3
6:04 SHU misses a jumper
5:42 Mayo misses a lay-up
5:38 TO by SHU
5:11 TO by Dawson
4:43 SHU misses lay-up
4:34 TO by Juan
4:29 Foul on Dawson, SHU misses 2 FTs
4:12 Jamil makes 2 FT (+2)
4:12 Dawson out

MU shot 3-9 from the floor and turned the ball over 5 times while SHU went 0-4 on FTs (all attempts off of Dawson fouls). That's not exactly a 9-minute stretch upon which I'd hang my hat as a PG.

[GGGG]

3-6, 7 points and 6 assists would be a serviceable enough line for a PG in 40 minutes - if the result of that PG playing didn't negatively trickle down to affect the other 4 players on the floor with him.  It is the exact opposite scenario of what a PG should be for a basketball team - a guy who makes everyone around him better.  When he doesn't need to be defended within 8 feet on the perimeter....that makes it incredibly hard for everyone else playing with him...

Buzz has said we are playing 4 on 5 with him on the court.  He concedes it.  Knows it.  Keeps rolling with it for 32+ minutes per game.  

Yeah I know all that.  Yet he is *still* the best point guard on the team right now.  Period.

Honestly, the offense has had its best four game stretch of the season with Derrick Wilson playing huge minutes.  What else exactly do you want?

I know you see potential in John Dawson.  So do I.  But potential is just that...potential.  It's not here and now.

[GGGG]

Let's break down those 9 minutes, shall we?

12:31 Dawson checks in
12:13 Mayo hits 2 FTs (+2)
11:56 Steal by Jamil
11:27 Gardner scores on off reb (+4)
11:14 Steal by Jamil
11:08 Gardner hits 2 FTs (+6)
10:24 SHU lay-up (+4)
9:54 Gardner scores on off reb (+6)
9:38 Foul on Dawson, SHU misses 2 FTs
8:58 SHU lay-up (+4)
8:37 TO by Jake
8:18 Burton misses a jumper
8:16 Mayo misses a 3
8:08 SHU makes a 3 (+1)
7:56 TO by Dawson
7:46 TO by SHU
7:30 TO by Dawson
6:58 SHU makes a 3 (-2)
6:35 Juan scores on off reb (E)
6:19 SHU misses a 3
6:04 SHU misses a jumper
5:42 Mayo misses a lay-up
5:38 TO by SHU
5:11 TO by Dawson
4:43 SHU misses lay-up
4:34 TO by Juan
4:29 Foul on Dawson, SHU misses 2 FTs
4:12 Jamil makes 2 FT (+2)
4:12 Dawson out

MU shot 3-9 from the floor and turned the ball over 5 times while SHU went 0-4 on FTs (all attempts off of Dawson fouls). That's not exactly a 9-minute stretch upon which I'd hang my hat as a PG.

Classic.

[bilsu]

I disagree that Derrick Wilson does not have upside. At beginning of year he could not make a layup and now is easily making 3 a game. I of course do not know if he will improve much from the outside, but I would think he would spend the whole summer working on his outside shot. Cadougan's shot improved from his junior to senior year. Blue's outside shot improved from his sophomore to junior year. McNeal did not really have an outside shot until his senior year. Players improve there shooting all of the time. I would also expect Derrick's passing to improve as he is teamed with better players.

[NersEllenson]

Let's break down those 9 minutes, shall we?

12:31 Dawson checks in
12:13 Mayo hits 2 FTs (+2)
11:56 Steal by Jamil
11:27 Gardner scores on off reb (+4)
11:14 Steal by Jamil
11:08 Gardner hits 2 FTs (+6)
10:24 SHU lay-up (+4)
9:54 Gardner scores on off reb (+6)
9:38 Foul on Dawson, SHU misses 2 FTs
8:58 SHU lay-up (+4)
8:37 TO by Jake
8:18 Burton misses a jumper
8:16 Mayo misses a 3
8:08 SHU makes a 3 (+1)
7:56 TO by Dawson
7:46 TO by SHU
7:30 TO by Dawson
6:58 SHU makes a 3 (-2)
6:35 Juan scores on off reb (E)
6:19 SHU misses a 3
6:04 SHU misses a jumper
5:42 Mayo misses a lay-up
5:38 TO by SHU
5:11 TO by Dawson
4:43 SHU misses lay-up
4:34 TO by Juan
4:29 Foul on Dawson, SHU misses 2 FTs
4:12 Jamil makes 2 FT (+2)
4:12 Dawson out

MU shot 3-9 from the floor and turned the ball over 5 times while SHU went 0-4 on FTs (all attempts off of Dawson fouls). That's not exactly a 9-minute stretch upon which I'd hang my hat as a PG.

I agree it was awful...have said as much...yet as bad as it was...we actually expanded the lead.  Obviously you and I are never going to agree on this debate..and that's fine...I've felt Derrick has played better basketball the last 3 games..been disruptive defensively, made some really nice passes....and he very well may be better at some things than Dawson at this stage.  My point all along is that playing Dawson (the potential future of the position) 25+ minutes a game from early non conference, likely wouldn't have resulted in things being "worse," from a wins/loss perspective...and you get your freshman valuable experience. 

Oh well...I'm pretty well over it...have resigned myself to the fact the above isn't going to happen...yet still remain hopeful we can somehow make the NCAA...we probably won't get to see the difference it makes having a PG who is a true threat to score for yet another season after next so I'm prepared for another long year next year.