Butler loses 2nd player on team this year....Stevens recruit

[Pakuni]

Actually they had 3...1962, 2003, 2007.  If that counts as "many" in your eyes, then that's fine.

How's Butler tournament record over the past 20 years w/out Brad Stevens stack up to the tournament records of St. Louis or Dayton over the past couple decades? (not to mention Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall and St. John's)?

Again...by winning a lower level league.

Winning a lower league actually worked against them in the NCAA tournament because it landed them first- and second-round matchups against higher seeded opponents than they likely would have faced coming out of a better conference.

(And, yeah, i know the response here is they wouldn't have made the tourney against a power-conference schedule. To which I would reply we can't possibly know that, but we do know they've beaten some of those power-conference schools in the tourney).

[MUSF]

I wonder why Chicos started this thread.... Couldn't possibly be because Crean is sh*tting the bed and the IU fans are dreaming of Brad Stevens, could it? Desperate straw grabbing at its finest.

If you are correct about Chico's (I'm not saying you are) you just played into his hands with your reply.

[Texas Western]

Butler brings many positives to this league. They have a history of success under many different coaches, they play in a historic arena that has been recently renovated, they are in a big and growing media market, and the academic quality of the school is high .  They have consistently provided strong competition in what is clearly a transitional year. One of the nice thing about the round robin schedule Big East Schedule is we get a pretty deep understanding of our opponents over time. I don't think any one is going into a game with Butler and looking at it as a guaranteed win.

[mug644]

I'll mention Crean in this post, but not really along the lines of the above bickering.

I think Stevens, despite the obvious commitment of the Butler administration, realized the limitations of recruiting to a place like Butler, even despite it's great success of consecutive Final Fours and ascension to the Big East. It's incredibly hard for a coach at a lower profile school to maintain effort and success; maybe only Gonzaga has done so within the last 15-20 years (although Xavier comes to mind). But, Gonzaga, like Butler, built a program that succeeded with more than one coach. That's what keeps me hopeful about the Bulldogs despite this poor year, and the transition to a new coach.

The recruiting ceiling that was perhaps felt by Stevens is no different that the words spoken by Mike Deane about Marquette, and that led Tom Crean to say "It's Indiana, It's Indiana." Places like MU and Butler are simply not 'dream' schools for most top notch players, and it is exhausting for a coach to need to feel like Sisyphus each and every year, with each and every 5 star recruit.

[keefe]

The recruiting ceiling that led Tom Crean to say "It's Indiana, It's Indiana."

I'm glad to see it has turned out well for The Bronzed Beast of Bloomington...

[Dawson Rental]

This again?
Butler made NCAA tournament appearances with the guy before Brad Stevens (Todd Lickliter).
Butler made NCAA tournament appearances with the guy before Todd Lickliter (Thad Matta)
Butler made NCAA tournament appearances with the guy before Thad Matta (Barry Collier).

I'm far less concerned with Butler's ability to build a winner in the new Big East than I am Seton Hall or Providence or DePaul. Is anyone really shocked that a team that lost its top three scores AND its coach from last year is having a bit of a rough go at it?
Would we be better off with Dayton right now?

For this year anyway, the answer is yes.

[mug644]

I'm glad to see it has turned out well for The Bronzed Beast of Bloomington...

I feel the same way. 

[Dawson Rental]

I think they might be ok, but one of the complaints about Stevens is that he couldn't recruit very well.  Certainly has some coaching chops, but their classes coming off the NCAA runs weren't what was expected, and the talent not good this year.  I've had more than a few folks in the industry say Brad got out because he knew they were going to get smoked this year in this conference because the recruits weren't capable.  They said this prior to the season starting.

Brad isn't stupid.  

And the Boston Celtics' head coaching job ain't chopped liver, either.  Supposedly, Stevens was not willing to even consider other Division I jobs this off season, so, unless he knew a while before it became public that the Boston offer was coming through, then he evidently was willing to give coaching Butler in its first year in the Big East a go, so, I think that your folks in the industry were making crap up.  

[Dreadman24]

Actually they had 3...1962, 2003, 2007.  If that counts as "many" in your eyes, then that's fine.



Again...by winning a lower level league.

+1000

[MUSF]

Butler will be the Butler we all knew for most of their history. Not surprised by this at all. Schools like Butler or SLU can have a run but long term not a program that you look to be an anchor in a conference.

Actually, I think SLU may have been the better short and long-term option. I am more concerned about Butler's future without Stevens than I would be about SLU.

[wildbill sb]

Some might say the same thing about Marquette this year...

Yep.

[keefe]

I am relaxed. I provided simple reasoning.

If anything you need to relax. You just used world domination and Hitler as a way to disprove Marquette being 1 of the 3 headlining teams in the Big East Men's Basketball conference.

Take a deep breath and exhale slowly. I was just getting in some Godwin's points.

[bilsu]

This may not have anything to do with future success, but possibly Butler's best player had to redshirt this year do to injury. Given the number of close games they have been in, it is not hard to imagine Butler having a significantly better season, if the player did not get hurt.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you are correct about Chico's (I'm not saying you are) you just played into his hands with your reply.

I'm so glad I have that arseclown on ignore, but got to read from you quoting him...smh 

[kmwtrucks]

in 2013 Indiana had 10 player's rated 3 star in HS (not including post grad kids going to school elsewhere) PU got 2, IU got 2, ND got 3, Cuse and Mich got 1 each.   Its tough when you are only recruiting 2 star players to have real sustained success.  Most Indiana kids are going to goto IU, PU and ND 1st.  and the 2-3 top 40 types are going to either the 3 above or blue blood.   MU is in a way better recruiting situation then Butler.  Better facilities, less competition for in state player's, and larger budgets, donations, and Alumni base. 

[StillWarriors]

This again?
Butler made NCAA tournament appearances with the guy before Brad Stevens (Todd Lickliter).
Butler made NCAA tournament appearances with the guy before Todd Lickliter (Thad Matta)
Butler made NCAA tournament appearances with the guy before Thad Matta (Barry Collier).

I'm far less concerned with Butler's ability to build a winner in the new Big East than I am Seton Hall or Providence or DePaul. Is anyone really shocked that a team that lost its top three scores AND its coach from last year is having a bit of a rough go at it?
Would we be better off with Dayton right now?

Hard to argue with the concern over DePaul's ability to build a winner. I have been seeing a lot lately though about Seton Hall having some major success on the recruiting trail, and that their future looks pretty bright. Hope so. Can only be good for the conference.

[slingkong]

There were a couple other schools that fit those criteria.  The question is over the course of time, do they fit that criteria better than schools like Dayton or SLU.

It's been my opinion since day 1 of this conference that SLU is not a good fit because it has not been historically committed to basketball. And despite their current ranking (with Majerus' players) they're an even bigger question mark now that Majerus is gone. Anyway, I agree with others that Butler wasn't added as a headliner - neither would SLU if they are added - but because of their location, semi-successful history, and size.