New Lineup Moving Forward

[NersEllenson]

If we are going to make any kind of run from here on out, the lineup/rotation needs to be as follows:

PG - Dawson, 30 minutes.  Derrick 10
2G - Mayo, 30 minutes.  Jake 10
3   - Steve Taylor 27 minutes.  Burton 13
4 - Jamil Wilson  32 minutes.  Burton 8
5 - Gardner 33 minutes.  Otule 7

End of story.  No messing around with offense/defense substitutions.  Get synergy and efficiency through guys playing long runs of games together.

[jesmu84]

No big disagreements here. Though, I'd switch STJ and Jamil. Rather have STJ playing more inside.

Also, if Mayo has one of his off games, would you be ok with a 20-20 or 25-15 split if jake is hitting from the outside?

This isn't going to please those who thing JJJ will transfer without playing time...

[Lennys Tap]

If we are going to make any kind of run from here on out, the lineup/rotation needs to be as follows:

PG - Dawson, 30 minutes.  Derrick 10
2G - Mayo, 30 minutes.  Jake 10
3   - Steve Taylor 27 minutes.  Burton 13
4 - Jamil Wilson  32 minutes.  Burton 8
5 - Gardner 33 minutes.  Otule 7

End of story.  No messing around with offense/defense substitutions.  Get synergy and efficiency through guys playing long runs of games together.

Steve Taylor + Deonte Burton for 40 minutes at the 3 = 40 points per game from our opponents at that position.

[NersEllenson]

Steve Taylor + Deonte Burton for 40 minutes at the 3 = 40 points per game from our opponents at that position.

You might be right, but guess what - Steve and Deonte would score 40 combined as well.  As K.O., has said, Burton is a guy who can just go out and get you 20 and 10.  Obviously that's an exaggeration, but he has that kind of offensive potential.

The other upside - you get these guys valuable game experience NOW as sophomore and freshman, help them become better defensively in game action, and be that much better as upperclassmen.

And...you also help keep their attitude good, and prevent them from having any thoughts of transferring..

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Here's what I would like to see:

Dawson (20 mins) Derrick (20 mins)
Mayo (30 mins) Jake (10 mins)*
Jake (15 mins) J Wilson (10 mins) Burton (10 mins) Juan (5 mins)
J Wilson (20 mins) Taylor (20 mins)
Gardner (30 mins) Otule (10 mins)

*Jake's minutes at the 2 should only come when Dawson is at the point.

I think the key to winning is Thomas and Mayo on the floor at the same time. Mayo is our best penetrater and Jake is our best sniper having one of each will open all sorts of things on the offensive end.

I love me some Juan, think he's one of the best hustlers on the team. But until he can take a shot with confidence, I don't think he can see the floor.

[Lennys Tap]

And...you also help keep their attitude good, and prevent them from having any thoughts of transferring..

If that's what you're after, completely bench the seniors. Activate Duane, start a three guard offense (Dawson, JJJ, Duane), play Burton at the 4 and Taylor at the 5. Give Juan 6 minutes (3 behind Steve and 3 behind Burton) give Mayo 10 minutes behind each of the other three guards. Everybody's happy, more experienced and the seniors don't have to risk injury before trying to play in Europe. We lose every game by 30 and Buzz will be able to win COY next year if he goes .500. And you and the rest of Scoop would be ecstatic. Mission Accomplished.

[JakeBarnes]

BECAUSE I SPIT HOT FIRE!

[chapman]

Let's keep doing what we're doing.  If our starting backcourt gets outscored 40-6 again we'll just have to tell the posts and the guys sitting on the bench to play better defense.  Should boil down to 17-14.  Why change anything for the risk of going 15-16 and missing out on the prestigious NIT?

[NersEllenson]

If that's what you're after, completely bench the seniors. Activate Duane, start a three guard offense (Dawson, JJJ, Duane), play Burton at the 4 and Taylor at the 5. Give Juan 6 minutes (3 behind Steve and 3 behind Burton) give Mayo 10 minutes behind each of the other three guards. Everybody's happy, more experienced and the seniors don't have to risk injury before trying to play in Europe. We lose every game by 30 and Buzz will be able to win COY next year if he goes .500. And you and the rest of Scoop would be ecstatic. Mission Accomplished.

Funny how you parsed everything else in my original post about the reasons for playing Deonte and Steve more - that they might give up 40, but they'll get you 40 - and in the process be getting them valuable game experience.  They are the future, along with Dawson.  Not Derrick.  Not Jake.  Not Otule.  Those three aforementioned guys have us 11-9 with no wins over Top 50 teams.  

Go back and look at my original post and lineup suggestion.  Just because you are a staunch Derrick backer, and have continued to defend him at every turn, when all evidence suggests he's crippling this team mightly - doesn't mean you can't change your point of view.

And if I'm John Dawson - I'm seriously thinking about transferring.  Sitting behind a guy who has been SO incredibly ineffective, and only getting 8 minutes after you lead the team to its best victory of the year (yes at Georgetown is better than a neutral court win over George Washington), and play a solid floor game, solid defense, and score 7 in overtime - and you come out and get 8 minutes the next game?  Yea...totally annoying.  Don't think for a minute schools aren't reaching out to Dawson to try to get him to transfer.  College hoops is a dirty, dirty business.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Funny how you parsed everything else in my original post about the reasons for playing Deonte and Steve more - that they might give up 40, but they'll get you 40 - and in the process be getting them valuable game experience.  They are the future, along with Dawson.  Not Derrick.  Not Jake.  Not Otule.  Those three aforementioned guys have us 11-9 with no wins over Top 50 teams.  

Go back and look at my original post and lineup suggestion.  Just because you are a staunch Derrick backer, and have continued to defend him at every turn, when all evidence suggests he's crippling this team mightly - doesn't mean you can't change your point of view.

And if I'm John Dawson - I'm seriously thinking about transferring.  Sitting behind a guy who has been SO incredibly ineffective, and only getting 8 minutes after you lead the team to its best victory of the year (yes at Georgetown is better than a neutral court win over George Washington), and play a solid floor game, solid defense, and score 7 in overtime - and you come out and get 8 minutes the next game?  Yea...totally annoying.  Don't think for a minute schools aren't reaching out to Dawson to try to get him to transfer.  College hoops is a dirty, dirty business.

I get your PoV but what kind of message does it send to potential recruits if your coach gives up on the season and never plays their season?

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Here's what I would like to see:

Dawson (20 mins) Derrick (20 mins)
Mayo (30 mins) Jake (10 mins)*
Jake (15 mins) J Wilson (10 mins) Burton (10 mins) Juan (5 mins)
J Wilson (20 mins) Taylor (20 mins)
Gardner (30 mins) Otule (10 mins)

*Jake's minutes at the 2 should only come when Dawson is at the point.

I think the key to winning is Thomas and Mayo on the floor at the same time. Mayo is our best penetrater and Jake is our best sniper having one of each will open all sorts of things on the offensive end.

I love me some Juan, think he's one of the best hustlers on the team. But until he can take a shot with confidence, I don't think he can see the floor.

Already assuming JJJ is transferring, eh?

[NersEllenson]

I get your PoV but what kind of message does it send to potential recruits if your coach gives up on the season and never plays their season?

WE aren't giving up by going to a BETTER lineup - we are improving!  The current lineup hasn't gotten it done.  Period. 

And, if I'm a recruit, and I see the same crappy upperclassmen lineup trotted out game after game after game, with the same paltry results - and I can hardly sniff the floor as a talented freshman/sophomore - yeah, I might think I want to go elsewhere.

[royceda5 9]

If I'm a transfer I would leave, Buzz doesn't even play our best players... Ever.

[UticaBusBarn]

If we are going to make any kind of run from here on out, the lineup/rotation needs to be as follows:

PG - Dawson, 30 minutes.  Derrick 10
2G - Mayo, 30 minutes.  Jake 10
3   - Steve Taylor 27 minutes.  Burton 13
4 - Jamil Wilson  32 minutes.  Burton 8
5 - Gardner 33 minutes.  Otule 7

End of story.  No messing around with offense/defense substitutions.  Get synergy and efficiency through guys playing long runs of games together.


This is about right. The irony is that it appears to me that D. Wilson has regressed as a defensive player. For example, Chennault went coast-to-coast at the end of regulation on Derrick. The claimed best defensive player on the team by Coach Williams

I also agree with you that Coach Williams allow players to go for longer time stints. For all of 2012-13 folks suggested that Gardner, because of his offensive numbers, play more than 16 minutes a game.  Coach Williams gave all sorts of excuses for not playing Gardner more - out of shape, does not rebound, no defense, etc. Finally, at the beginning of this year, Coach Williams starts him. (Wonder if the then sulking Gardner said something along the lines of I am senior, play me!) The results have been pretty impressive.

Anyway, the win one, lose one scenario needs to end, and the future needs to be considered.

[GGGG]

You might be right, but guess what - Steve and Deonte would score 40 combined as well.  As K.O., has said, Burton is a guy who can just go out and get you 20 and 10.  Obviously that's an exaggeration, but he has that kind of offensive potential.

The other upside - you get these guys valuable game experience NOW as sophomore and freshman, help them become better defensively in game action, and be that much better as upperclassmen.

And...you also help keep their attitude good, and prevent them from having any thoughts of transferring..

I hope Buzz never, ever, ever plays players "to prevent them from having any thoughts of transferring."  It shouldn't enter his mind at all.

There is so much more than being a member of a team than playing a few extra minutes here and there.  If that is what is going to drive people away, then it's been nice knowing ya.  Really the only "regrettable" transfers in the Buzz era have been Maymon (crazy ass dad) and TJ Taylor (homesick.)  And neither one of them were make-or-break. 

[NersEllenson]

I hope Buzz never, ever, ever plays players "to prevent them from having any thoughts of transferring."  It shouldn't enter his mind at all.

There is so much more than being a member of a team than playing a few extra minutes here and there.  If that is what is going to drive people away, then it's been nice knowing ya.  Really the only "regrettable" transfers in the Buzz era have been Maymon (crazy ass dad) and TJ Taylor (homesick.)  And neither one of them were make-or-break. 

I agree that you don't play, players out of a fear they might transfer - you play them if they can play.  Dawson can play.  Burton can play.  Steve Taylor can play (now that healthy).  JJJ - Needs to get healthy, but in his case he has a pretty good vet in front of him in Todd - which makes sitting more tolerable.  But if I'm Dawson, and sitting behind the horse crap point guard in front of me - I'm definitely getting frustrated - even though I am a high character guy.

[GGGG]

This is just going to be the drum that you are going to beat all year.  But Dawson is a freshman.  He is inconsistent.  He was great against Georgetown, but was not as good as Derrick yesterday.  I agree that he should have gotten more minutes than he did...only if to keep Derrick more refreshed.

But I think it is disingenuous to think that Dawson somehow is far and away better RIGHT NOW.  He might be, but it is hardly an open and shut case.

[willie warrior]

I hope Buzz never, ever, ever plays players "to prevent them from having any thoughts of transferring."  It shouldn't enter his mind at all.

There is so much more than being a member of a team than playing a few extra minutes here and there.  If that is what is going to drive people away, then it's been nice knowing ya.  Really the only "regrettable" transfers in the Buzz era have been Maymon (crazy ass dad) and TJ Taylor (homesick.)  And neither one of them were make-or-break. 

Well Sultan--disagree here. I believe Buzz already has shown a pattern of playing guys so they would not transfer. R. Smith and E. Williams both started and got 3 minutes per half so they would not transfer--and then they did anyhow. Boom. And they did not deserve starting. Thomas and Juan were going to transfer last year but Buzzo begged them to stay, so he rewards them with starting and minutes this year. . Now we will never know for sure but look at these cases--why are they/were they getting those minutes with their performance?

[GGGG]

Well Sultan--disagree here. I believe Buzz already has shown a pattern of playing guys so they would not transfer. R. Smith and E. Williams both started and got 3 minutes per half so they would not transfer--and then they did anyhow. Boom.

Illogical.

1. There is no proof that he started them so they wouldn't transfer.  Buzz started Reggie for a handful of games his freshman year...Buzz started EWill because he stated he wanted to keep Jae out of foul trouble.  I mean, do you really think that Buzz started EWill in a S16 game so he wouldn't transfer?

2. Both players did transfer, so even if you buy into your screwball theory that that's the reason why they started, it didn't work.  So why should he do it now?

3.  You probably picked the two most useless players that transferred from MU during the Buzz era.  Reggie transferred again to Eastern Illinois.  EWill is completely out of college basketball.

Thomas and Juan were going to transfer last year but Buzzo begged them to stay, so he rewards them with starting and minutes this year. . Now we will never know for sure but look at these cases--why are they/were they getting those minutes with their performance?

Buzz did not beg Juan to stay.  Juan was going to transfer closer to home for a reason related to his family.  His family told him to stay.  Jake was going to transfer because he was going off scholarship, but when Vander left, Buzz gave Jake his scholarship.

He didn't promise starting minutes to either one of them.  Juan is barely playing.

[BCHoopster]

Illogical.

1. There is no proof that he started them so they wouldn't transfer.  Buzz started Reggie for a handful of games his freshman year...Buzz started EWill because he stated he wanted to keep Jae out of foul trouble.  I mean, do you really think that Buzz started EWill in a S16 game so he wouldn't transfer?

2. Both players did transfer, so even if you buy into your screwball theory that that's the reason why they started, it didn't work.  So why should he do it now?

3.  You probably picked the two most useless players that transferred from MU during the Buzz era.  Reggie transferred again to Eastern Illinois.  EWill is completely out of college basketball.


Buzz did not beg Juan to stay.  Juan was going to transfer closer to home for a reason related to his family.  His family told him to stay.  Jake was going to transfer because he was going off scholarship, but when Vander left, Buzz gave Jake his scholarship.

He didn't promise starting minutes to either one of them.  Juan is barely playing.

Juan must be very disappointed in his play, or yesterday lack of play.  Really should have transferred but he has never taken the next step offensively to desire playing time.  Jake has earned it by hustling, something that Todd might not do in practice, so he gets majority of the PT time.  But when the other team takes him out of the game, he has to seat.  Buzz did not
nor the other coaches realize that.  There is always going to be rumblings of kids transferring as freshman, most freshman should not be playing at all.  Most are clueless, all 3 have weaknesses.  Burton maturity, JJJ needs 20 lbs., and John needs muscle as well, all 3 will be good players by there junior year, hope they all stay.  Add the pieces next year, they should be
very good in 2 years.  Next year might really be rebuilding.

[BallBoy]

Well Sultan--disagree here. I believe Buzz already has shown a pattern of playing guys so they would not transfer. R. Smith and E. Williams both started and got 3 minutes per half so they would not transfer--and then they did anyhow. Boom. And they did not deserve starting. Thomas and Juan were going to transfer last year but Buzzo begged them to stay, so he rewards them with starting and minutes this year. . Now we will never know for sure but look at these cases--why are they/were they getting those minutes with their performance?

Where do you come up with this stuff?  It was well documented that Juan was going to the PAC-10 to be closer to home. When he didn't get the level of interest that he thought his parents told him it is better for him to try to make it at a Big East program than play for small conference.

Jake was off scholarship and then one opened.

[NersEllenson]

This is just going to be the drum that you are going to beat all year.  But Dawson is a freshman.  He is inconsistent.  He was great against Georgetown, but was not as good as Derrick yesterday.  I agree that he should have gotten more minutes than he did...only if to keep Derrick more refreshed.

But I think it is disingenuous to think that Dawson somehow is far and away better RIGHT NOW.  He might be, but it is hardly an open and shut case.

The only thing inconsistent about Dawson is the playing time Buzz gives him. The only thing consistent with Derrick is high minutes and limited production. I just don't understand how some of you are so quick to judge Dawson in 5 and 8 minutes of action and determine he's inconsistent or was worse than Derrick getting 36 minutes. We have just 2 games of Dawson getting good, extended run at PG - Xavier and GTown - and he played pretty well.  I would bet my left nut that if Dawson were given 30 minutes from here on out his stats and the teams record would be better than what we've gotten out of Derrick's direction.

[Lennys Tap]

.  But if I'm Dawson, and sitting behind the horse crap point guard in front of me - I'm definitely getting frustrated - even though I am a high character guy.

With that kind of toxic, me first, me only attitude even a (self proclaimed) great athlete would find himself playing pick up games at the rec center instead of playing on a real team. I'd bet John Dawson is a much better teammate than you would be (or were, for that matter).

[willie warrior]

Where do you come up with this stuff?  It was well documented that Juan was going to the PAC-10 to be closer to home. When he didn't get the level of interest that he thought his parents told him it is better for him to try to make it at a Big East program than play for small conference.

Jake was off scholarship and then one opened.

Where do I get this stuff? It was on this board last year. Juan was going to transfer, Buzz talked him out of it. Thomas was going to leave, Buzz talked him out of it, or miraculously came up with a schollie. Neither deserve the time they have gotten this year. Nothing against those kids, just their talent level. Do they hustle-yeah. Point is, this certainly suggests that possibly Buzz play kids to stop from transferring--although as I said, we will never know for sure. In Buzz we slurp...er...trust.

[ATL MU Warrior]

With that kind of toxic, me first, me only attitude even a (self proclaimed) great athlete would find himself playing pick up games at the rec center instead of playing on a real team. I'd bet John Dawson is a much better teammate than you would be (or were, for that matter).

in high school?  or on his intramural team?