Hoop Dreams 20 years later

[T-Bone]

http://thedissolve.com/features/oral-history/360-an-oral-history-of-hoop-dreams-20-years-after-its-/

It's a long read and have barely scratched the surface.  Gates declined to be interviewed for the piece.

[MU82]

http://thedissolve.com/features/oral-history/360-an-oral-history-of-hoop-dreams-20-years-after-its-/

It's a long read and have barely scratched the surface.  Gates declined to be interviewed for the piece.

I'll check this out. Thanks for posting.

I rank Hoop Dreams as the best sports movie ever, just ahead of Raging Bull and Slap Shot.

Had it been a motion picture screenplay, with all those incredible twists and turns -- particularly Agee ending up on top and Gates being in the dumps -- it might have been dismissed as cliche and unrealistic. That all the stuff actually happened makes it an amazing film.

[CTWarrior]

I rank Hoop Dreams as the best sports movie ever, just ahead of Raging Bull and Slap Stick.

I think you mean Slapshot.  My Top 10 Sports Movies ever:

1.  Hoosiers
2.  Raging Bull
3.  Rocky (Also to a lesser entent Rocky III and Rocky IV)
4.  Caddyshack
5.  Major League
6.  Diggstown
7.  Field of Dreams
8.  The Longest Yard (Burt Reynolds, not the Adam Sandler remake)
9.  The Karate Kid
10. Cinderella Man

I like Slapshot (anything with the Hansons is funny but the rest of the movie not so much), but it doesn't crack my top 10.  Also loved Hoop Dreams when I saw it but is not re-watchable.  Also like but no room for Eight Men Out, A League of Their Own, Miracle, Breaking Away

Bad Sports Movies that I am helpless to resist when I come across them:
1.  The Replacements
2.  Mystery, Alaska
3.  The Sandlot
4.  Victory (Starring Sylvester Stallone and Pele)
5.  Varsity Blues
6.  Necessary Roughness
7.  Fast Break

[Spotcheck Billy]

What? Happy Gilmore, Rollerball and Death Race 2000 don't crack your top 10?  

[LAMUfan]

does point break count??

[MU82]

I think you mean Slapshot.  My Top 10 Sports Movies ever:

1.  Hoosiers
2.  Raging Bull
3.  Rocky (Also to a lesser entent Rocky III and Rocky IV)
4.  Caddyshack
5.  Major League
6.  Diggstown
7.  Field of Dreams
8.  The Longest Yard (Burt Reynolds, not the Adam Sandler remake)
9.  The Karate Kid
10. Cinderella Man

I like Slapshot (anything with the Hansons is funny but the rest of the movie not so much), but it doesn't crack my top 10.  Also loved Hoop Dreams when I saw it but is not re-watchable.  Also like but no room for Eight Men Out, A League of Their Own, Miracle, Breaking Away

Bad Sports Movies that I am helpless to resist when I come across them:
1.  The Replacements
2.  Mystery, Alaska
3.  The Sandlot
4.  Victory (Starring Sylvester Stallone and Pele)
5.  Varsity Blues
6.  Necessary Roughness
7.  Fast Break

Yes, Slap Shot. 

I disagree about Hoop Dreams not being rewatchable. Every scene with one or both of Agee's parents is outstanding. You root for several characters and shake your head at Pingatore. Plus a nice cameo for K.O. Gene Siskel felt it should have won the Oscar -- not for documentary but overall -- in 1994 and was outraged that it wasn't even nominated in the Docu category.

I agree about Rocky III - just the Clubber Lang scenes are so wonderful. Rocky IV is hard to watch but I do love his speech in the ring at the end because it scores a solid 15 on the 1-to-10 scale of ridiculousness.

Caddyshack? What can I say. I use some of the lines when I play golf but I simply don't think it was that funny. Which means I have to turn in my "guy card" because every guy thinks it's hysterical.

Field of Dreams is a schlocky mess and is so inferior to Bull Durham. If I want schlocky sentimentality, I'll stick with Pride of the Yankees!

I'm also a big fan of the original version of The Longest Yard. And I shouldn't like Karate Kid, but I do!

I never saw Diggsville. I guess I should.


My Top Ten

1. Hoop Dreams
2. Raging Bull
3. Slap Shot
4. Pride of the Yankees
5. Rocky
6. The Naked Gun (Technically not a sports movie but the ballpark scenes are freakin' hilarious. Plus, O.J. gets his comeuppance!)
7. Bull Durham
8. North Dallas Forty
9. When We Were Kings
10. Hoosiers

[GGGG]

Hoop Dreams is pretty distinctive because it is a documentary.

[CTWarrior]

Field of Dreams is a schlocky mess and is so inferior to Bull Durham. If I want schlocky sentimentality, I'll stick with Pride of the Yankees!

You're probably right about Field of Dreams but I buy it, especially the Burt Lancaster/Frank Whaley Moonlight Graham character, schmaltz and all.  It really bothers me that Ray Liotta bats from the wrong side as Shoeless Joe.  Gary Cooper couldn't fake it left handed in Pride of the Yankees so he batted right handed and they reversed the film.  The problem I have with Pride of the Yankees (besides the fact that I hate the Yankees) is that the acting of that age is so wooden that it is disconcerting.

[Benny B]

I think you mean Slapshot.  My Top 10 Sports Movies ever:

1.  Hoosiers
2.  Raging Bull
3.  Rocky (Also to a lesser entent Rocky III and Rocky IV)
4.  Caddyshack
5.  Major League
6.  Diggstown
7.  Field of Dreams
8.  The Longest Yard (Burt Reynolds, not the Adam Sandler remake)
9.  The Karate Kid
10. Cinderella Man

I like Slapshot (anything with the Hansons is funny but the rest of the movie not so much), but it doesn't crack my top 10.  Also loved Hoop Dreams when I saw it but is not re-watchable.  Also like but no room for Eight Men Out, A League of Their Own, Miracle, Breaking Away

Bad Sports Movies that I am helpless to resist when I come across them:
1.  The Replacements
2.  Mystery, Alaska
3.  The Sandlot
4.  Victory (Starring Sylvester Stallone and Pele)
5.  Varsity Blues
6.  Necessary Roughness
7.  Fast Break

I still laugh watching Russell Martin skate in Mystery, Alaska.... if you watch closely, what little skating he actually does (which isn't his stunt double) is actually gliding.

For Love of the Game is another one I'd put on the "bad" list.  That movie is the poster child for showing how bad writing, worse cinematography and horrible execution can both hamstring great acting potential and tank an awesome plot concept.

While not a movie, any episode of Futurama involving the Harlem Globetrotters in a supporting role is funky enough to merit inclusion on both of these lists.

[BrewCity83]

Vision Quest is one of my favorite sports movies.  Really the only movie I've seen about HS wrestling.

...and you guys forgot The Fish Who Saved Pittsburgh.  Not a great movie but it's so goofy, and it stars Dr. J, that it's entertaining.

[keefe]

Tobey Bryan's Backcourt Violation and Tyler's Wood offer refreshingly candid insights on the arduous life of today's professional athlete.

[Lennys Tap]

I think you mean Slapshot.  My Top 10 Sports Movies ever:

1.  Hoosiers
2.  Raging Bull
3.  Rocky (Also to a lesser entent Rocky III and Rocky IV)
4.  Caddyshack
5.  Major League
6.  Diggstown
7.  Field of Dreams
8.  The Longest Yard (Burt Reynolds, not the Adam Sandler remake)
9.  The Karate Kid
10. Cinderella Man

I like Slapshot (anything with the Hansons is funny but the rest of the movie not so much), but it doesn't crack my top 10.  Also loved Hoop Dreams when I saw it but is not re-watchable.  Also like but no room for Eight Men Out, A League of Their Own, Miracle, Breaking Away

Bad Sports Movies that I am helpless to resist when I come across them:
1.  The Replacements
2.  Mystery, Alaska
3.  The Sandlot
4.  Victory (Starring Sylvester Stallone and Pele)
5.  Varsity Blues
6.  Necessary Roughness
7.  Fast Break

Good list and some good additions from 82 but you both missed the greatest sports movie of all time - The Hustler. Also missing is my favorite baseball movie ever - Bang The Drum Slowly with Michael Moriarity and a young Robert DeNiro.

[keefe]

Good list and some good additions from 82 but you both missed the greatest sports movie of all time - The Hustler. Also missing is my favorite baseball movie ever - Bang The Drum Slowly with Michael Moriarity and a young Robert DeNiro.

Bang the Drum Slowly is a great catch.

As a climber I would include the following films. Even for non-climbers these are superb works:


Touching the Void


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t65VrYZ2U9s



North Face


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lkEfgPsOa0


The Wildest Dream


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjYx8dWIdlU


I would have thought all you Chicagoans would have included Brian's Song

[WI inferiority Complexes]

I would have thought all you Chicagoans would have included Brian's Song

The week before Thanksgiving my small Catholic grade school in the Chicago suburbs would need the gym/cafeteria/auxillary chapel to set up for the Chirstmas Bazaar.  For PE class that week we'd watch Brian Song; I saw it 8 times in 8 years broken up in 40 minute segments.

I'm surprised that we didn't have someone from Milwaukee mention Mr. 3000 with Bernie Mac.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I think you mean Slapshot.  My Top 10 Sports Movies ever:

1.  Hoosiers
2.  Raging Bull
3.  Rocky (Also to a lesser entent Rocky III and Rocky IV)
4.  Caddyshack
5.  Major League
6.  Diggstown
7.  Field of Dreams
8.  The Longest Yard (Burt Reynolds, not the Adam Sandler remake)
9.  The Karate Kid
10. Cinderella Man

I like Slapshot (anything with the Hansons is funny but the rest of the movie not so much), but it doesn't crack my top 10.  Also loved Hoop Dreams when I saw it but is not re-watchable.  Also like but no room for Eight Men Out, A League of Their Own, Miracle, Breaking Away

Bad Sports Movies that I am helpless to resist when I come across them:
1.  The Replacements
2.  Mystery, Alaska
3.  The Sandlot
4.  Victory (Starring Sylvester Stallone and Pele)
5.  Varsity Blues
6.  Necessary Roughness
7.  Fast Break

My top 2 arent even in your top 10. Miracle and Remember the Titans always my two favorites.

[MU82]

Good list and some good additions from 82 but you both missed the greatest sports movie of all time - The Hustler. Also missing is my favorite baseball movie ever - Bang The Drum Slowly with Michael Moriarity and a young Robert DeNiro.

The Hustler is in my second 10, for sure, although calling billiards a sport is a stretch (although I guess no more a stretch than me listing The Naked Gun as a sports movie, so never mind).

Bang the Drum Slowly ... I saw it in the theater a zillion years ago and remember liking it. It was on TNT or some other channel a few months ago and I was excited and I watched it again. And, frankly, I was quite bored. Probably just me, but I still say it ain't no Bull Durham!

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Victory is great.  It also has Michael Caine & Max Von Sydow and a cast of international soccer all-stars.  Was it director John Huston's last movie?

I can't help but to add Happy Gilmore.  Not the best at all, bit I can't help it but I watch if I see it on.

I have a few friends in Alexandria, VA and they pointed out the Remember the Titans high school as it was near one of their houses.

[GooooMarquette]

What?  No mention of White Men Can't Jump?

[CTWarrior]

My top 2 arent even in your top 10. Miracle and Remember the Titans always my two favorites.

I have a strong dislike for the movie Remember the Titans.  First off, it is as generic and predictable as a sports movie can be.  Mostly, I have a problem with Denzel Washington.  He is the African American version of early Tom Cruise.  Whatever flaws he has, his character is always hyper-competent.  His is character is always "the best" at whatever he does.  He's the best lawyer or the best train engineer or the best coach, etc.  In this movie, in the big game, Denzel is coaching offense and the other guy is coaching defense.  They are losing 7-0 at the half, despite the fact that Denzel has taken all the best players for offense.  During halftime, for some reason it is the defensive guy, who has allowed only 7 points, who says "I am getting my butt kicked.  I need your help."  Not the offense who is being shut out.  And Denzel's brilliant plan to help the defense?  He lets them have a couple of the good players.  Brilliant coach?  Hardly.

PS - My wife hates watching sports movies with me.  Comments like "No way they pitch to Geena Davis with first base open and Marla Hooch off on her honeymoon!" or "Great coach my a$$!  After the season they had, Norman Dale has to be told by his players that Jimmy Chitwood can beat his man if they set him up?" seem to upset her for some reason.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I have a strong dislike for the movie Remember the Titans.  First off, it is as generic and predictable as a sports movie can be.  Mostly, I have a problem with Denzel Washington.  He is the African American version of early Tom Cruise.  Whatever flaws he has, his character is always hyper-competent.  His is character is always "the best" at whatever he does.  He's the best lawyer or the best train engineer or the best coach, etc.  In this movie, in the big game, Denzel is coaching offense and the other guy is coaching defense.  They are losing 7-0 at the half, despite the fact that Denzel has taken all the best players for offense.  During halftime, for some reason it is the defensive guy, who has allowed only 7 points, who says "I am getting my butt kicked.  I need your help."  Not the offense who is being shut out.  And Denzel's brilliant plan to help the defense?  He lets them have a couple of the good players.  Brilliant coach?  Hardly.

PS - My wife hates watching sports movies with me.  Comments like "No way they pitch to Geena Davis with first base open and Marla Hooch off on her honeymoon!" or "Great coach my a$$!  After the season they had, Norman Dale has to be told by his players that Jimmy Chitwood can beat his man if they set him up?" seem to upset her for some reason.

Wow I had a complete lapse in thought. I do like remember the titans but I meant to put "Glory Road" as my number 2 movie. Whoops.

[MU82]

I have a strong dislike for the movie Remember the Titans.  First off, it is as generic and predictable as a sports movie can be.  Mostly, I have a problem with Denzel Washington.  He is the African American version of early Tom Cruise.  Whatever flaws he has, his character is always hyper-competent.  His is character is always "the best" at whatever he does.  He's the best lawyer or the best train engineer or the best coach, etc.  In this movie, in the big game, Denzel is coaching offense and the other guy is coaching defense.  They are losing 7-0 at the half, despite the fact that Denzel has taken all the best players for offense.  During halftime, for some reason it is the defensive guy, who has allowed only 7 points, who says "I am getting my butt kicked.  I need your help."  Not the offense who is being shut out.  And Denzel's brilliant plan to help the defense?  He lets them have a couple of the good players.  Brilliant coach?  Hardly.

PS - My wife hates watching sports movies with me.  Comments like "No way they pitch to Geena Davis with first base open and Marla Hooch off on her honeymoon!" or "Great coach my a$$!  After the season they had, Norman Dale has to be told by his players that Jimmy Chitwood can beat his man if they set him up?" seem to upset her for some reason.

This is too funny, CT, because I am the same way. And I drive my wife crazy, too.

I also agree with you about Remember the Titans. I didn't hate the movie, in fact I remember liking it at the time I first saw it, but you are right about it being predictable and formulaic and unrealistic. I do disagree about Denzel, who I think is great most of the time.

As for Hoosiers, I can't remember who it was but somebody went back and watched the movie frame by frame and concluded that the team shot something like 80% from the floor! I liked Hoosiers because Hackman and Hopper and because it really is a great, true-ish story of triumph.

[Lennys Tap]

Two more highly acclaimed sports movies - The Natural and Chariots of Fire. IIRC "Chariots" won the Oscar for best picture.

[keefe]

I have a strong dislike for the movie Remember the Titans.  First off, it is as generic and predictable as a sports movie can be.  Mostly, I have a problem with Denzel Washington.  He is the African American version of early Tom Cruise.  Whatever flaws he has, his character is always hyper-competent.  His is character is always "the best" at whatever he does.  He's the best lawyer or the best train engineer or the best coach, etc.  In this movie, in the big game, Denzel is coaching offense and the other guy is coaching defense.  They are losing 7-0 at the half, despite the fact that Denzel has taken all the best players for offense.  During halftime, for some reason it is the defensive guy, who has allowed only 7 points, who says "I am getting my butt kicked.  I need your help."  Not the offense who is being shut out.  And Denzel's brilliant plan to help the defense?  He lets them have a couple of the good players.  Brilliant coach?  Hardly.

PS - My wife hates watching sports movies with me.  Comments like "No way they pitch to Geena Davis with first base open and Marla Hooch off on her honeymoon!" or "Great coach my a$$!  After the season they had, Norman Dale has to be told by his players that Jimmy Chitwood can beat his man if they set him up?" seem to upset her for some reason.

It's a Disney movie. Of course it's formulaic. And there's nothing wrong with that. It was never positioned as anything more than feel good entertainment. Not everything needs to be Bergman or Kurosawa. You can't eat steak every meal and every culture has developed dessert cuisine for a reason.

[Lennys Tap]

Some recent ones I've really liked - The Fighter (great performance by Christian Bale), Moneyball and Win Win (an indie film with Paul Giamatti as a struggling lawyer/wrestling coach). Not as recent but also worth a look - The Wrestler (Mickey Rourke's comeback), Seabiscuit, Friday Night Lights and Tin Cup.

[Goose]

Lenny

All good calls.