Milwaukee In Decline?

[forgetful]

I think there have been several discussions on USN college rankings and the merits of the criteria.

I investigated twice if there was any payback moving from Connecticut to Florida.  (Weather related only and I'd be forfeiting a ton of money but that's a different story.)  I was looking at USN stats and I found that one of their big stats that inflates school system's score is "% of kids taking AP classes."  It was like 4 times higher than any Connecticut school district.  Yet the college attendance rate was half the amount and the average SAT scores were lower, etc.  Then I found out why - subject matter.  Not taken into account by USN.  The Senior AP classes in Florida were the average required curriculum for Freshman year in Connecticut public high schools.  And Tennessee schools are supposed to be even worse than Florida. 

This is a big sham to the school rankings.  There are several historically highly rated schools that pay the students to take AP classes and essentially guarantee a good grade.  They even pay the teacher additional money for each student they recruit to take those AP courses.

They will also pay the students additional money to take the AP exam and pay for the AP exam itself. 

Also, these historically high ranking high schools are not open to all students, they have to test into them.  The testing program is biased, where admins sell the tests to top tutors, who are then hired by wealthy parents to tutor their kids to ensure they get into the special schools.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The top public school in Tennessee (Hume-Fogg in Nashville) was ranked #37 nationally by USN. Not too shabby.

Two of the top 27 HS's are within 4 miles of my house....a few years ago they were both ranked in the top 10.  I have no idea how you rank high schools.  My son tried to get into one of them as a 7th grader (it's a 7th through 12th - Oxford Academy).  Straight A student, off the charts on the public testing scores....didn't get in.  Even though it is public, they can decline admissions and the acceptance rate is very low.

Minority enrollment 88%.  Almost all Asian kids.  Extremely competitive. 

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/california/districts/anaheim-union-high/oxford-academy-1748

[warriorchick]

Two of the top 27 HS's are within 4 miles of my house....a few years ago they were both ranked in the top 10.  I have no idea how you rank high schools.  My son tried to get into one of them as a 7th grader (it's a 7th through 12th - Oxford Academy).  Straight A student, off the charts on the public testing scores....didn't get in.  Even though it is public, they can decline admissions and the acceptance rate is very low.

Minority enrollment 88%.  Almost all Asian kids.  Extremely competitive. 

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/california/districts/anaheim-union-high/oxford-academy-1748

The USN high school rankings are more full of crap than their college rankings.  My kid's high school has been crowing that they made it into the top tier of those rankings.  It's only because that is where my school district's gifted program is housed.  The rest of the student body consists of what are referred to as "at-risk" students, and to my knowledge, they don't perform any better than your average group of at-risk students.

[mu03eng]

I think there have been several discussions on USN college rankings and the merits of the criteria.

I investigated twice if there was any payback moving from Connecticut to Florida.  (Weather related only and I'd be forfeiting a ton of money but that's a different story.)  I was looking at USN stats and I found that one of their big stats that inflates school system's score is "% of kids taking AP classes."  It was like 4 times higher than any Connecticut school district.  Yet the college attendance rate was half the amount and the average SAT scores were lower, etc.  Then I found out why - subject matter.  Not taken into account by USN.  The Senior AP classes in Florida were the average required curriculum for Freshman year in Connecticut public high schools.  And Tennessee schools are supposed to be even worse than Florida. 

As someone who spent time in Florida schools especially Tampa, I can tell you DON'T DO IT.  Worst experience of my life.  My brother was in first grade when we moved there from Ohio, they put him in a corner and let him read all he wanted because he was so far ahead.  We left two years later and he was a grade behind the other 3rd graders in Illinois.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The USN high school rankings are more full of crap than their college rankings.  My kid's high school has been crowing that they made it into the top tier of those rankings.  It's only because that is where my school district's gifted program is housed.  The rest of the student body consists of what are referred to as "at-risk" students, and to my knowledge, they don't perform any better than your average group of at-risk students.

I have no doubt.  I don't know how you could reasonable rank all those schools to begin with.  I know the one school I referenced close to our house is extremely good and puts kids in fantastic colleges, but the school he is at puts kids in the same colleges.  The difference is that the percentage of kids doing so is higher in the former rather than the latter.

[tower912]

I chose a less expensive house in the city that employs me and then opted to spend the money for Catholic Schools.   

[brandx]

As someone who spent time in Florida schools especially Tampa, I can tell you DON'T DO IT.  Worst experience of my life.  My brother was in first grade when we moved there from Ohio, they put him in a corner and let him read all he wanted because he was so far ahead.  We left two years later and he was a grade behind the other 3rd graders in Illinois.

I think that is generally true in most Southern states. But their property taxes are lower. It's all a trade-off and very politically motivated.

[keefe]

Bleau, my daughter and fiance each sold their condos in Chicago's Gold Coast last year and moved to a suburb of Nashville (Franklin).  No state income tax, income increases, lower property taxes, great schools and state not on the verge of bankruptcy.  (and football is not much different).

My wife and I were looking at a condo in the third ward on the river as a 'pied a tierre' for the winter, or whenever we didn't feel like driving back to Oconomowoc after a game or play, but the taxes were silly.

Does your wife know about your fiancé?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I chose a less expensive house in the city that employs me and then opted to spend the money for Catholic Schools.   

Are you in Detroit?

[tower912]

No.   

[keefe]

Almost all Asian kids.  Extremely competitive. 

Their football team?

[chapman]

As someone who spent time in Florida schools especially Tampa, I can tell you DON'T DO IT.  Worst experience of my life.  My brother was in first grade when we moved there from Ohio, they put him in a corner and let him read all he wanted because he was so far ahead.  We left two years later and he was a grade behind the other 3rd graders in Illinois.

Have a few co-workers in the northeast who want to move to Florida - they could pay for a house in less than ten years with their tax savings alone.  That's the very reason they aren't already there; they will not leave until the kids are done with school first.   

[keefe]

ZFB: "Are you in Detroit?"

912: "No."   

International Man of Mystery.

[DegenerateDish]

I live in Northwest Chicago burbs (Kane), modest townhouse, $5200 in property taxes yearly, it's crazy.

For a lot of reasons, I hate living in Illinois.

I have no clue how one rates schools. Chicago Public Schools, from what I hear, try to prepare kids mainly to take standardized tests, to increase those scores, in spite of core curriculm. No idea if this is true.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

No.   

Good.   

[brandx]

I live in Northwest Chicago burbs (Kane), modest townhouse, $5200 in property taxes yearly, it's crazy.

For a lot of reasons, I hate living in Illinois.

I have no clue how one rates schools. Chicago Public Schools, from what I hear, try to prepare kids mainly to take standardized tests, to increase those scores, in spite of core curriculm. No idea if this is true.

I would guess it's just as true there as in other places.

[keefe]

I would guess it's just as true there as in other places.

It is. The fallacy of standardized tests.

[Hards Alumni]

Your property taxes all sound cheap.  I'm paying aound $6,200 per year.

$8,800

Get on my level son. 

[muwarrior69]

You guys make me cry! My taxes in New Jersey are 14000; if you live in Princeton Borough or West Windsor just two communities adjacent to mine you could pay upward of 20000. I believe the median property tax in New Jersey is around 7500. In Trenton, where the school system is subsidized by the state were paying around 11000 per student where only 30-40% graduate. The average car insurance for 2 cars will run you about 1500. Chris Cristie along with the Democrats in the assembly capped the property tax increases to 2% two years ago, but exempted pension and medical insurance, two of the 3 prime drivers that increase your taxes, from the cap. Go figure. I could go on about the cost of living in my state but I'm getting a headache. 

[chapman]

You guys make me cry! My taxes in New Jersey are 14000; if you live in Princeton Borough or West Windsor just two communities adjacent to mine you could pay upward of 20000. I believe the median property tax in New Jersey is around 7500.

You've nailed the biggest offending state from my "few co-workers in the northeast" referenced above 

[warriorchick]

You guys make me cry! My taxes in New Jersey are 14000; if you live in Princeton Borough or West Windsor just two communities adjacent to mine you could pay upward of 20000. I believe the median property tax in New Jersey is around 7500. In Trenton, where the school system is subsidized by the state were paying around 11000 per student where only 30-40% graduate. The average car insurance for 2 cars will run you about 1500. Chris Cristie along with the Democrats in the assembly capped the property tax increases to 2% two years ago, but exempted pension and medical insurance, two of the 3 prime drivers that increase your taxes, from the cap. Go figure. I could go on about the cost of living in my state but I'm getting a headache. 

It's simply the premium you pay for the privilege of living in New Jersey.   

[Spotcheck Billy]

that east coast bias doesn't come free you know

[PBRme]

But is that because of a difference in valuations?  For instance, if I owned a house in Milwaukee...or the same exact house in New Berlin, I know that the *rate* would be higher in Milwaukee.  But would the actual $$$ be higher as well?

Milwaukee taxes are skewed by MATC at least when I lived in Wauwatosa.  MATC was over a quarter of the tax bill.

Now just west of 124th and WCTC is far less.

[mu_hilltopper]

In the end .. it doesn't matter that you have high or low property taxes.  It's your total tax burden that matters.

New Jersey has high property taxes?  Well, no wonder.  They get 49% of their entire tax revenue from property taxes .. the US average is 32%.  Illinois is at 44%.  Wisconsin is at 39%.

Meanwhile NJ, IL and WI are low sales-tax states, and gets only 15% of its taxes from Sales tax .. IL is at 16%  .. WI is at 17 .. the US averages 22%.

State   Property   Sales   Income   Corporate Other Taxes (a)
Minn.   30.7%   18.6%   26.5%   3.0%   21.2%
Calif.   31.2%   23.1%   26.4%   5.3%   14.0%
*US   34.8%   22.4%   20.5%   3.4%   18.9%
Wis.   39.5%   17.4%   23.7%   3.5%   15.9%
Mich.   40.3%   25.9%   16.4%   1.9%   15.4%
Ill.   43.6%   15.9%   15.8%   2.5%   22.1%
N.J.   48.4%   15.5%   20.2%   4.0%   11.9%


What you need to talk about is total State/Local tax burden.   Looks like NJ wins (loses) that battle.  IL is the cheapest of these states..

State   Revenue Per Capita   Rank
Ill.   $7,522   31
Mich.   $7,731   29
Wis.   $8,013   23
*US.   $8,122   –
Minn.   $8,750   14
Calif.   $8,785   13
N.J.   $9,485   7

[mu_hilltopper]

Milwaukee taxes are skewed by MATC at least when I lived in Wauwatosa.  MATC was over a quarter of the tax bill.

Now just west of 124th and WCTC is far less.

While each municipality's property tax bill's %ages fluctuate, MATC is likely not a quarter of anyone's tax bill.  Looking at mine (north shore) .. MATC's share is 8%. 

The %ages for most property tax bills average out to 40-50% for schools, 20-30% for the municipality, 5-10 for MMSD, 5-10 for MATC, 15-20 for MKE County, and 1-2% for the State.