Press Break

[TJ]

That was worse than 2005 and the Marcus Jackson experiment (with all apologies to Marcus - not his fault he was asked to play completely out of position).  Both Derrick and Jamil were deer in headlights in the face of a standard full court trap.  Glad we're not going to have to see a Louisville press this year.  It would have gotten ugly real fast.

[ATL MU Warrior]

That was worse than 2005 and the Marcus Jackson experiment (with all apologies to Marcus - not his fault he was asked to play completely out of position).  Both Derrick and Jamil were deer in headlights in the face of a standard full court trap.  Glad we're not going to have to see a Louisville press this year.  It would have gotten ugly real fast.

I think anybody would be glad to not face that Louisville pressure. 

Not sure what happened...poor execution of a good plan or a poor plan. 

Either way, you can't have 3 guys run to the other end of the floor and never come back to the ball.

[Lighthouse 84]

I'd rather see Todd bring the ball up.  He seemed to handle the ball today well enough and he can make a free throw.  Get DeWil out of there though at the end.

[TJ]

You also can't pick up your dribble then expect to be able to step through and throw a pass to covered man.  Call a TO and get in the other 3 guys faces for running down to the other end.  The first TO was bad enough; the next two were inexcusable.  The PG and the senior leader need to take charge and make sure that doesn't happen.

[chapman]

I'd rather see Todd bring the ball up.  He seemed to handle the ball today well enough and he can make a free throw.  Get DeWil out of there though at the end.

Agree.  Very good handle and excellent free throw shooter.  He's got to be the first choice back there against pressure.

[tower912]

Two fundamental problems.   1.  Not having an outlet pass available behind the ball.   2.   Dribbling at the double team and then picking up your dribble without a plan as the double team arrived.   Yeah, that was ugly.  Should have used Mayo and Thomas.

[TJ]

I think anybody would be glad to not face that Louisville pressure. 

Not sure what happened...poor execution of a good plan or a poor plan. 

Either way, you can't have 3 guys run to the other end of the floor and never come back to the ball.

Despite our record against Louisville I always expected that we could hold our own with them when we had James and co., or Acker/Cubillan, or even Junior to a slightly lesser extent.  This team wouldn't score 40 points if Pitino decided to keep the pressure up all game.

[AZWarrior]

I'd rather see Todd bring the ball up.  He seemed to handle the ball today well enough and he can make a free throw.  Get DeWil out of there though at the end.

Agreed.  When being pressured, at the end of a game we should sub Dawson for DeWil and let Mayo bring the ball up.  Dawson is better from the line (I think at least, heck - he must be) and he's much better offensively.  Dawson is looking better and better.  And I'm getting tired of Kevin O pointing out that our opponents often don't guard DeWil.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'd rather see Todd bring the ball up.  He seemed to handle the ball today well enough and he can make a free throw.  Get DeWil out of there though at the end.

Last year I hated Todd's handle. He has really improved in this area. I'd like to see him at the one more often

[TJ]

And I'm getting tired of Kevin O pointing out that our opponents often don't guard DeWil.

They don't.  He's just doing his job and pointing it out.  Seton Hall made an extra effort to make sure they didn't bother covering him.  That baseline 10 footer in the second half he had time to go get some nachos if he wanted before someone was going to close on him.

[LloydMooresLegs]

Two fundamental problems.   1.  Not having an outlet pass available behind the ball.   2.   Dribbling at the double team and then picking up your dribble without a plan as the double team arrived.   Yeah, that was ugly.  Should have used Mayo and Thomas.

+1 on both.

[AZWarrior]

They don't.  He's just doing his job and pointing it out.  Seton Hall made an extra effort to make sure they didn't bother covering him.  That baseline 10 footer in the second half he had time to go get some nachos if he wanted before someone was going to close on him.

Yes, I know.  I agree.  Kevin O's been pointing it out for multiple games now.  And when DeWil's defender sags it clogs up the paint and makes DG much less effective.  It makes it tougher in general to get the paint touches that makes our offense go.

The really strange thing is that DeWil's shot mechanics aren't bad.  I suspect it's a lack of confidence in his shot that makes him an ineffective shooter from the outside.  I'd love to see him drain a few of those wide open looks he keeps getting.

[NersEllenson]

I think anybody would be glad to not face that Louisville pressure. 

Not sure what happened...poor execution of a good plan or a poor plan. 

Either way, you can't have 3 guys run to the other end of the floor and never come back to the ball.

You do realize sending 3 offensive players to the other end of the court eliminates their defenders from pressing in the backcourt?

You aggessively push against a press, and avoid the trapping corners near the timeline - you can push up the sideline, but as you do that you need to sprint one of the 3 guys in the frontcourt to the middle/halfcourt area - then dump to him before you can get trapped.  Walking the ball up the middle of the court as Derrick did is the worst thing you can do - ultra easy to trap that.

[tower912]

You realize in a trapping zone press that those guys aren't being guarded, right?    Have an outlet pass behind, have somebody come to the middle of the floor at mid court.   Pass to one of those two as the double team starts to form.  Press defeated. 

[Lighthouse 84]

Two fundamental problems.   1.  Not having an outlet pass available behind the ball.   2.   Dribbling at the double team and then picking up your dribble without a plan as the double team arrived.   Yeah, that was ugly.  Should have used Mayo and Thomas.

i agree Mayo and Thomas would be best. They both shoot FTs well and don't get flustered by the pressure.  

[TJ]

Yes, I know.  I agree.  Kevin O's been pointing it out for multiple games now.  

KO has to assume he's talking to a different audience each game.  For one thing, he probably is for the most part.  For another, announcers would run out of things to say pretty quickly if they couldn't repeat themselves.

[brandx]

Yes, I know.  I agree.  Kevin O's been pointing it out for multiple games now.  And when DeWil's defender sags it clogs up the paint and makes DG much less effective.  It makes it tougher in general to get the paint touches that makes our offense go.

The really strange thing is that DeWil's shot mechanics aren't bad.  I suspect it's a lack of confidence in his shot that makes him an ineffective shooter from the outside.  I'd love to see him drain a few of those wide open looks he keeps getting.

Problem is that in non-conf games there is not a lot of scouting so some teams will guard DW. We will rarely see him guarded the rest of the year, so it continues 4-on-5

[TJ]

You do realize sending 3 offensive players to the other end of the court eliminates their defenders from pressing in the backcourt?

You aggessively push against a press, and avoid the trapping corners near the timeline - you can push up the sideline, but as you do that you need to sprint one of the 3 guys in the frontcourt to the middle/halfcourt area - then dump to him before you can get trapped.  Walking the ball up the middle of the court as Derrick did is the worst thing you can do - ultra easy to trap that.

Not when it's MU doing it.  You have to successfully make the long pass and easy layup occasionally or the defense won't respect it and now you're just trying to break a 3-4 man press with 2 guys.

I agree with your second paragraph about what they should do, but that's all theory at this point.  As it is, MU running 3 guys down the floor just makes the trap easier for the opponent.

[brandx]

You realize in a trapping zone press that those guys aren't being guarded, right?    Have an outlet pass behind, have somebody come to the middle of the floor at mid court.   Pass to one of those two as the double team starts to form.  Press defeated. 

Agee - but DW is just as passive attacking a press as he is attacking the basket.

I was busy and didn't turn game on until 7 or 8 minutes left and the 1st time MU had the ball is a microcosm of their entire offensive problems. Juan had a wide open 3 and passed on it, Jamil had a wide open 3 and passed on it. Juan had another wide open 3 and passed on it. Eventually the ball was passed to Derrick 30' from the basket with 7 seconds on the shot clock. Derrick's first 2 steps were to back out toward center court despite no one guarding him. Then after being yelled at about the clock, he threw up a 25 footer. Clank.

That is our offense. We will not beat a good team all year if Derrick plays 35+ minutes a game. Dawson is green, but at least he plays basketball.

Now I am imposing a moratorium on myself about Derrick. Seems like a great kid and is doing the best he can.

[NersEllenson]

You realize in a trapping zone press that those guys aren't being guarded, right?    Have an outlet pass behind, have somebody come to the middle of the floor at mid court.   Pass to one of those two as the double team starts to form.  Press defeated. 

It's never a good thing when you have to have an outlet pass behind the ball when breaking a press.  That is the first sign the press is defeating you - when you have to retreat against it.  Isn't the end of the world, but a team with a good PG rarely has to pass it backward against a press.  And I'm not saying Dawson would necessarily handle it differently than Derrick - but just feel at some point we have to begin playing an aggressive brand of basketball, instead of the let's not make a mistake brand of basketball.  Derrick is SO conservative, it simply doesn't lend itself to aggression and putting pressure on the opposition press/defense.

[tower912]

That press break was more on Buzz and Jamil than it was on Derrick.    Derrick should be smarter than to dribble into double teams, but he has to have passing options when the trap comes.  It was either bad scheme or bad execution by Jamil. 

[willie warrior]

They don't.  He's just doing his job and pointing it out.  Seton Hall made an extra effort to make sure they didn't bother covering him.  That baseline 10 footer in the second half he had time to go get some nachos if he wanted before someone was going to close on him.

Exactly--they packed it in big time. De. Wilson is not even guarded.

[RushmoreAcademy]

Tough to say whose fault that was.  You've got to go with everybody, even though we know Buzz obviously knows what he's doing.  Having an outlet pass behind him doesn't necessarily solve your problem, but may just prolong it... at the least I suppose it makes the defense make a decision, but that's not the solution.  You've got to pass before you get trapped.  We couldn't really see what the rest of the court looked like, but that would definitely give us a lot of insight as to what they were running.

Seton Hall hit some big shots, but the guys held on for the W.  They are never easy and a win is a win right now.
 

[ATL MU Warrior]

Ners,

Agree with most of what you are saying here. 

Honestly, I think the press surprised them...didn't look at all like they knew what they should do and they clearly didn't have the personnel in the right places to be effective against it. 

[bilsu]

I think the first trap actually caught Derrick by surprise. after that it did not look pretty, but we did not really turn the ball over.