Marial Shayok

[Windyplayer]

He simply needs to unbury himself then.

This is my point. 18 and 19-year-olds don't think like this for the most part. Why "unbury" myself when I can have a fresh start elsewhere and play right away.

I know nothing about the situation so I'm not comfortable making any further comments regarding why he's not playing, or what Buzz has in store for him next year. I'm merely trying to get in the head of a kid is age.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is my point. 18 and 19-year-olds don't think like this for the most part. Why "unbury" myself when I can have a fresh start elsewhere and play right away.

I'm not sure if this is as universal as you think it is. I know what your are referring to. I work with millennial students every day. But athletes especially are used to years of coaching, belittling, challenge, and hard work. To transfer for more playing time is often viewed as "wimping out" or "giving up." Not saying it is right, just saying it is a perception that exists.

Plus, they wouldn't play right away. They would sit a year and then play. Very few millennial students are willing to delay gratification that long

[GGGG]

This is my point. 18 and 19-year-olds don't think like this for the most part. Why "unbury" myself when I can have a fresh start elsewhere and play right away. 

But he's not going to play right away if he transfers.

[Windyplayer]

But he's not going to play right away if he transfers.

True.

[tower912]

If this is in refernce to JaJuan--there should be a legitimate concern of him transferring after this year. He's absolutely buried behind a very pedestrian backcourt. Top 35 recruits have higher expectations for themselves for better or worse. I'm sure Buzz has sounds reasons for not playing him, it's just a difficult situation.

Then blame JaJuan for not doing the work to supplant the pedestrian backcourt.  I had, and still have, high hopes for JJJ.   But when he HAS seen the floor during the last month, he has done nothing to show he deserves more time.   The formula is simple.   Know your defensive responsibilities and perform them.   Know your offensive responsibilities and perform them.   Play hard and smart every minute you are on the floor.  We all want JJJ to succeed.  

[MerrittsMustache]

This is my point. 18 and 19-year-olds don't think like this for the most part. Why "unbury" myself when I can have a fresh start elsewhere and play right away.

I know nothing about the situation so I'm not comfortable making any further comments regarding why he's not playing, or what Buzz has in store for him next year. I'm merely trying to get in the head of a kid is age.

JJJ committed to Marquette under the impression that Vander Blue was going to be in front of him his freshman year and playing 32-36 minutes/game. If he was dead-set on playing big minutes right away, he wouldn't have committed to MU in the first place.

[Windyplayer]

JJJ committed to Marquette under the impression that Vander Blue was going to be in front of him his freshman year and playing 32-36 minutes/game. If he was dead-set on playing big minutes right away, he wouldn't have committed to MU in the first place.

He's playing no minutes right now.

[MerrittsMustache]

He's playing no minutes right now.

If a team's best player is a rising senior 2-guard who is going to play 35 min/game, then a 2-guard recruit who signs with that team is clearly willing to have, and understands that he will have, a very limited role his freshman year.

In other words, JJJ chose MU for reasons other than immediate playing time.

[The Love House]

To be honest I see him getting the least amount of playing time of any of our recruits next year. Theres really no minutes available for a player of his skill set on net years team.

No minutes??? The kid can't shoot, can't drive the lane, is a marginal rebounder, and has no clear position. He'll fit in from day one!

[NersEllenson]

 

Then blame JaJuan for not doing the work to supplant the pedestrian backcourt.  I had, and still have, high hopes for JJJ.   But when he HAS seen the floor during the last month, he has done nothing to show he deserves more time.   The formula is simple.   Know your defensive responsibilities and perform them.   Know your offensive responsibilities and perform them.   Play hard and smart every minute you are on the floor.  We all want JJJ to succeed.  

What you seem to continue to fail to understand is that it is really hard to "show something" in 3 minutes of action...which are the typical stints given to JJJ and Dawson...  It's like you guys who unequivocally support the starting backcourt expect the freshman to come into the game and immediately score, make assists, steals, etc., within 3 minutes - and if they don't then they aren't doing anything to deserve more playing time...yet your guys have many, many, LONG stints of "showing nothing," and you try to justify how/why they are earning their time...when there is so little data to suggest they should continue to be max minute players.  That's the frustration point for me/others who have an opposing viewpoint - so quick to jump and judge the freshman on such limited time/sample size...yet so willing to support the vets who have a huge sample size of not doing a whole lot...

[Windyplayer]

If a team's best player is a rising senior 2-guard who is going to play 35 min/game, then a 2-guard recruit who signs with that team is clearly willing to have, and understands that he will have, a very limited role his freshman year.

In other words, JJJ chose MU for reasons other than immediate playing time.

Guy, clearly that's not what's going on. You don't think he's adjusted his expectations after Blue bolted for the draft and this backcourt proved time and again to be inept?

[avid1010]

I'm not sure if this is as universal as you think it is. I know what your are referring to. I work with millennial students every day. But athletes especially are used to years of coaching, belittling, challenge, and hard work. To transfer for more playing time is often viewed as "wimping out" or "giving up." Not saying it is right, just saying it is a perception that exists.

Plus, they wouldn't play right away. They would sit a year and then play. Very few millennial students are willing to delay gratification that long

i think i agree with you, but the delayed gratification (maybe we should just put marshmallows in front of them, but then we wouldn't have signed gardner) reason for not wanting to transfer also pertains to not wanting to ride the pine in the first year or two at MU.  

if i were buzz i would ask a player with the skill of JJJ to name a player who transferred from MU and went on to play in the NBA while making the point that i know what it takes to get guys in the NBA (rattling off all the names), and emphasizing that if you're not good enough to earn minutes at MU, you're sure as heck not going to earn minutes in the NBA no matter where you transfer to.  

if a kid like juan wants to transfer back home to be close to family at a school where he can get tons of minutes, so be it.  he's likely headed overseas, and a couple years being close to family before heading in that direction makes sense.  if a kid like JJJ wants to be in the nba, but can't figure out how to crack the rotation, i think the only mentality that may allow him to have a chance at the nba is the one that says i'm going to work my a$$ off in the off-season and be so good that buzz can't take me off the court.  

[avid1010]

Guy, clearly that's not what's going on. You don't think he's adjusted his expectations after Blue bolted for the draft and this backcourt proved time and again to be inept?

that can go in the other direction as well.  do you think he's adjusted his expectations after continuously getting shut out in practice by teammates that are superior defenders and getting scored on by players that struggle to score in a BEAST game?  i'm not saying that's what happening, but it very well could be.  so i get that he's not getting minutes in the games to prove anything, but if he can't score or guard in practice, what makes him think he should get minutes. 

now from a coaching perspective i might look at it differently, but from a player perspective...if i can't guard or score in practice...forget minutes in the game.  as much as i struggle with d. wilson's minutes because i feel dawson has a higher ceiling.  i bet he doesn't score much on d. wilson in practice, and i bet his defensive lapses are present. 

[avid1010]

He is a Juan Anderson upgrade for sure

and you're a willie warrior upgrade

[GGGG]

What you seem to continue to fail to understand is that it is really hard to "show something" in 3 minutes of action...which are the typical stints given to JJJ and Dawson...  It's like you guys who unequivocally support the starting backcourt expect the freshman to come into the game and immediately score, make assists, steals, etc., within 3 minutes - and if they don't then they aren't doing anything to deserve more playing time...yet your guys have many, many, LONG stints of "showing nothing," and you try to justify how/why they are earning their time...when there is so little data to suggest they should continue to be max minute players.  That's the frustration point for me/others who have an opposing viewpoint - so quick to jump and judge the freshman on such limited time/sample size...yet so willing to support the vets who have a huge sample size of not doing a whole lot...

Sometimes I think people want to see the freshmen play to satisfy their own curiosity more than anything.  

Because this kind of post lacks a certain type of logic.  Yeah, from your vantage point you haven't been able to judge, but from the vantage point of the guy who sees them pretty much every day for the last six months, he has seen plenty to judge.  And he has based his playing time decisions accordingly.

As I have said earlier, does that make Buzz infallible?  Of course not.  But at some point people need to understand that he knows what he is doing is is very likely (given his track record) making the right decisions.

[Windyplayer]

that can go in the other direction as well.  do you think he's adjusted his expectations after continuously getting shut out in practice by teammates that are superior defenders and getting scored on by players that struggle to score in a BEAST game?  i'm not saying that's what happening, but it very well could be.  so i get that he's not getting minutes in the games to prove anything, but if he can't score or guard in practice, what makes him think he should get minutes. 

now from a coaching perspective i might look at it differently, but from a player perspective...if i can't guard or score in practice...forget minutes in the game.  as much as i struggle with d. wilson's minutes because i feel dawson has a higher ceiling.  i bet he doesn't score much on d. wilson in practice, and i bet his defensive lapses are present. 

Fair points, I suppose. But I'm basing my argument on realities where yours is pure speculation. But clearly, something is going on in practice for JJJ to be relegated to the end of the bench for multiple games. 

[brandx]

If this is in refernce to JaJuan--there should be a legitimate concern of him transferring after this year. He's absolutely buried behind a very pedestrian backcourt. Top 35 recruits have higher expectations for themselves for better or worse. I'm sure Buzz has sounds reasons for not playing him, it's just a difficult situation.

Why - because you are an insider with all the scoop? I'm gonna pass on that.

[ATL MU Warrior]

What you seem to continue to fail to understand is that it is really hard to "show something" in 3 minutes of action...which are the typical stints given to JJJ and Dawson...  It's like you guys who unequivocally support the starting backcourt expect the freshman to come into the game and immediately score, make assists, steals, etc., within 3 minutes - and if they don't then they aren't doing anything to deserve more playing time...yet your guys have many, many, LONG stints of "showing nothing," and you try to justify how/why they are earning their time...when there is so little data to suggest they should continue to be max minute players.  That's the frustration point for me/others who have an opposing viewpoint - so quick to jump and judge the freshman on such limited time/sample size...yet so willing to support the vets who have a huge sample size of not doing a whole lot...

Personally, I don't expect them to or even care if they score at all in those limited stints of action.  What I expect them to do is:
   1) play good defense -- this isn't necessarily about steals or something else that shows up in a boxscore
   2) Not jack up shots early in the shot clock without running the offense
   3) Not turn the ball over
   4) Not commit silly fouls (you could argue that this is closely related to #1)

Generally speaking, I think #1 is the area that most commonly results in the quick trip back to the bench and that is just fine with me.

You seem to want to only judge guys on whether or not they score -- "long stints of showing nothing" I think is how you put it.  As has been said ad nauseam, the guys who play the most minutes play those minutes because they have fewer defensive lapses. 

[ATWizJr]

Why - because you are an insider with all the scoop? I'm gonna pass on that.

Is it possible that JJJ would more than compensate for any defensive shortcomings by his athleticism and offensive capabilities?  If so, it would be a net gain for MU.

[keefe]

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego

MLK, Letter From a Birmingham Jail

[Golden Avalanche]

From what I've seen of each recruit, he might be the best of the bunch when it's all said and done. Very high ceiling.

Really?

Thought on him here in Jersey is that he's a very nice high school player who seems to have hit a level higher then he should relative to attending Marquette. I only watched him twice since he's on a prep squad and they play a lot out of state but it feels more that he'd be a nice program guy recruit.

Then again, I'm a bit daft when it comes this stuff. I think Veer Singh, supposed 2016 stud from Jersey, is more a reject tennis player than anything. Not even best player on his squad.

[GGGG]

Is it possible that JJJ would more than compensate for any defensive shortcomings by his athleticism and offensive capabilities?  If so, it would be a net gain for MU.

Theoretically is it possible?  Sure.

But outside of ASU, I haven't seen much evidence to suggest that it would be reality.  And neither does Buzz.

[NersEllenson]

Personally, I don't expect them to or even care if they score at all in those limited stints of action.  What I expect them to do is:
   1) play good defense -- this isn't necessarily about steals or something else that shows up in a boxscore
   2) Not jack up shots early in the shot clock without running the offense
   3) Not turn the ball over
   4) Not commit silly fouls (you could argue that this is closely related to #1)

Generally speaking, I think #1 is the area that most commonly results in the quick trip back to the bench and that is just fine with me.

You seem to want to only judge guys on whether or not they score -- "long stints of showing nothing" I think is how you put it.  As has been said ad nauseam, the guys who play the most minutes play those minutes because they have fewer defensive lapses. 

Okay...so basically you list 1-4 that could be Derrick's best assets...he's a good defender...he won't shoot, unless its a layup, he is good at protecting the ball, and he generally doesn't foul.

Now if those things were leading to victories consistently, and us beating a good team every now and then..I wouldn't argue their merits as it relates to this MU team.  But we all can agree...nobody here thought going into this year we would be fighting for our NCAA lives, and be 3-8 against Teams in the Top 50...so...the defensive first approach really hasn't worked that well.

At the end of the day, I'd just like a PG that gets 30 minutes plus per game to be a threat offensively, and require that the defense defend him on the perimeter.  You simply cannot seem to wrap your head around how hard that makes it for all 4 of the other MU players to be effective on the offensive end.  As for the defensive end...yes, Dawson isn't as good of defender as Derrick (and wouldn't expect that he would be as a freshman), but there is something called "help" defense...where you can help a teammate....there is no "help" teammate on the offensive end can provide when your PG doesn't need to be guarded on the perimeter...

[NersEllenson]

Sometimes I think people want to see the freshmen play to satisfy their own curiosity more than anything.  

Because this kind of post lacks a certain type of logic.  Yeah, from your vantage point you haven't been able to judge, but from the vantage point of the guy who sees them pretty much every day for the last six months, he has seen plenty to judge.  And he has based his playing time decisions accordingly.

As I have said earlier, does that make Buzz infallible?  Of course not.  But at some point people need to understand that he knows what he is doing is is very likely (given his track record) making the right decisions.

You make a good point...and it certainly is reasonable.  I'd just say in opposition, that just because it is the way Buzz is doing it (or any coach for that matter), doesn't automatically mean its the right decision....Buzz makes mistakes/miscalculations just like every other human being in the world.

If you can't see and tell that Buzz LOVE Derrick, and thinks the world of him...don't know what to say...coaches do develop favorites for all kinds of different reasons...and when a guy is a favorite...he is going to get the maximum benefit of the doubt from a coach..and that's the way I look at the whole deal with Derrick.  Derrick is a great kid, hard worker, high character - all admirable qualities, and ones Buzz sure loves...so....Buzz rewards that perhaps beyond what he should...if you are going to look at the overall results of Derrick getting 30 minutes per game objectively.

[Windyplayer]

Why - because you are an insider with all the scoop? I'm gonna pass on that.

It's called accounting for known factors and making an educated guess. I never said he will because I don't have "scoop." You do realize that's pretty much the essence of this message board, right? We're all operating on imperfect information, but that doesn't mean we can't make assertions or statements based on what we do know. And then, you get to judge those based on the argument laid out and what you know. It's called an argument. Look it up.