John Dawson Time...

[BallBoy]

I'm not surprised your username here is BallBoy...stick to what you do best, chasing balls around for guys who can play and know the game.

If you've ever played a lick of basketball beyond 8th grade, you know that getting 9 minutes a game, which is what Dawson has averaged in the total games he's played, and usually that 9 minutes of time is broken up into three, 3-minute segments - you'd know it's next to impossible to put up impressive stat lines.

Thank you.  I guess when you can't win you start to name call.  I did play beyond 8th grade though I will admit I only played intramural ball in college.  Which starter on the Marquette team were you?  

If you have as extensive of basketball experience as you say, why is that he is only getting 3 minute sprints?  1.) Conditioning, 2.) Skill set, 3.) the coach doesn't like you but you are the better player.  One is the excuse of a loser who doesn't want to admit 1 or 2 is true.  Seeing how that is your go it tells me about your extensive experience.  

In the Grambling game against equal talent with the same number of minutes and breaks.  Wilson played better.  In the CS Fullerton game where Wilson only had 11 more minutes (24) and Dawson got above his average (13).  Wilson had a significantly better stat line.  In the IUPUI game where Wilson had 22 minutes and Dawson got 13 minutes.  Wilson had a better stat line.  

If you are only getting 3 minute sprints, you are only there because you are giving a better player a breather or they are in foul trouble.  There is plenty of track record to show this.    

[NersEllenson]

Thank you.  I guess when you can't win you start to name call.  I did play beyond 8th grade though I will admit I only played intramural ball in college.  Which starter on the Marquette team were you?  

If you have as extensive of basketball experience as you say, why is that he is only getting 3 minute sprints?  1.) Conditioning, 2.) Skill set, 3.) the coach doesn't like you but you are the better player.  One is the excuse of a loser who doesn't want to admit 1 or 2 is true.  Seeing how that is your go it tells me about your extensive experience.  

In the Grambling game against equal talent with the same number of minutes and breaks.  Wilson played better.  In the CS Fullerton game where Wilson only had 11 more minutes (24) and Dawson got above his average (13).  Wilson had a significantly better stat line.  In the IUPUI game where Wilson had 22 minutes and Dawson got 13 minutes.  Wilson had a better stat line.  

If you are only getting 3 minute sprints, you are only there because you are giving a better player a breather or they are in foul trouble.  There is plenty of track record to show this.    

The stats in the games you reference aren't a very significant variance.  What is a significant variance is you have one guy - Derrick - who has been in the program for 2.5 years, and played in roughly 40 college basketball games, and the other guy - Dawson - who was playing in basically his 1st - 6th college games, while being the program for 6 months.  (The players report over the summer, usually in July, thus the 1/2 year component.)

For there to be that little of disparity, with the huge disparity in experience - it's pretty telling.  As is the team's record.  As are the struggles Gardner and Wilson are facing this year.  Neither have elevated their game, and in Gardner's case he's regressed.  The PG is the engine of your whole team - if you have really good one - you will always be in games.  Have a bad one, and it's going to be a challenge to win.

I don't hate Derrick personally in anyway, and think he's a hard working, great kid - he's just very limited at this level.  We should be grooming a potential future PG at this point, as we likely aren't going to win any of the games against Top 25-50 caliber teams with the current lineup.

[Nevada233]

Wellll,

Derrick isn't a good shooter, so that's not the answer.

Maybe Dawson can shoot!

BUT

Buzz sees these kids practice everyday. What if he sees that Dawson is clearly worse at shooting than Derrick? Is Dawson still an option?

WE, (internet nerds) don't know because Dawson doesn't play. However, Buzz Williams knows because he watches Dawson everyday.

Right and im sure Buzz or one of his Assistants or Dozens of staff reads these blogs. Theres no way they have no idea what the fans are saying.

[connie]

Right and im sure Buzz or one of his Assistants or Dozens of staff reads these blogs. Theres no way they have no idea what the fans are saying.

I have heard Buzz directly state that he doesn't read any blogs.  Honestly, I would be disappointed if he did.  The idea that Buzz might take my basketball advice is pretty depressing.

[keefe]

I have heard Buzz directly state that he doesn't read any blogs. 

Fuel for the fire! All the more reason to let him go!

[Nevada233]

I have heard Buzz directly state that he doesn't read any blogs.  Honestly, I would be disappointed if he did.  The idea that Buzz might take my basketball advice is pretty depressing.

Lol..... I almost fell out my chair.

[jesmu84]

Why is it so hard for some to believe that Derrick is playing exactly how Buzz is wanting/asking him to play? What if Buzz said: "Derrick, I want you to play hard on defense and slow the game down so we work 100% in the halfcourt?" And you've got posters here berating Derrick for no transition game. I certainly don't know what directions Derrick is being given, and neither do you. What if Buzz is telling Derrick not to shoot any 3s? It seems pretty obvious to me that Buzz is telling the teams something about shooting as I haven't seen nearly the number of trailing 3s that Lazar and Crowder used to take.

And the argument of "play Dawson for 30 minutes so we can get a baseline" is just absurd. No coach, team or player should ever be expected to go though that for any reason. It seems to just be a please-some-disgruntled-fans idea.

[keefe]

Why is it so hard for some to believe that Derrick is playing exactly how Buzz is wanting/asking him to play? What if Buzz said: "Derrick, I want you to play hard on defense and slow the game down so we work 100% in the halfcourt?" And you've got posters here berating Derrick for no transition game. I certainly don't know what directions Derrick is being given, and neither do you. What if Buzz is telling Derrick not to shoot any 3s? It seems pretty obvious to me that Buzz is telling the teams something about shooting as I haven't seen nearly the number of trailing 3s that Lazar and Crowder used to take.

And the argument of "play Dawson for 30 minutes so we can get a baseline" is just absurd. No coach, team or player should ever be expected to go though that for any reason. It seems to just be a please-some-disgruntled-fans idea.

Because we are not competitive against any school in a major conference, which now includes the Mountain West. 

[Wojo'sMojo]

Why is it so hard for some to believe that Derrick is playing exactly how Buzz is wanting/asking him to play? What if Buzz said: "Derrick, I want you to play hard on defense and slow the game down so we work 100% in the halfcourt?" And you've got posters here berating Derrick for no transition game. I certainly don't know what directions Derrick is being given, and neither do you. What if Buzz is telling Derrick not to shoot any 3s? It seems pretty obvious to me that Buzz is telling the teams something about shooting as I haven't seen nearly the number of trailing 3s that Lazar and Crowder used to take.

And the argument of "play Dawson for 30 minutes so we can get a baseline" is just absurd. No coach, team or player should ever be expected to go though that for any reason. It seems to just be a please-some-disgruntled-fans idea.

So your saying that Buzz wants him to play like crap? Because that's how he's playing...and no team wants to play 100 percent from the half court. If you notice when we play inferior competition he does try and push it, that's why that argument doesn't make sense.

[Nevada233]

So your saying that Buzz wants him to play like crap? Because that's how he's playing...and no team wants to play 100 percent from the half court. If you notice when we play inferior competition he does try and push it, that's why that argument doesn't make sense.

Whens the NIT Start??? Again?

Maybe we can get a 1970 Dean Meminger
Performance out of Derrick and we can win it...

But then again Dean was on the last Knicks team that won a Championship too... He was a player.

[jesmu84]

So your saying that Buzz wants him to play like crap? Because that's how he's playing...and no team wants to play 100 percent from the half court. If you notice when we play inferior competition he does try and push it, that's why that argument doesn't make sense.

Like crap? Really? I'd hate to see what derricks asst-to ratio would be and to/game would be if he played worse than "crap".

[ATL MU Warrior]

Because we are not competitive against any school in a major conference, which now includes the Mountain West. 

Play Dawson for 30 minutes and I think we'd be hard pressed to be "competitive" with most of the teams on the schedule.

[Goose]

Times are tough if an 8 page thread on John Dawson.

[GooooMarquette]

Times are tough if an 8 page thread on John Dawson.

No kidding.  I can't wait to see how many pages Ners gets when he begins the "start Dylan Flood" thread.

[NersEllenson]

No kidding.  I can't wait to see how many pages Ners gets when he begins the "start Dylan Flood" thread.

Sorry Gooo, but you and a few others are simply in denial as to how bad Derrick's "performance" is negatively impacting this team.  Virtually every team wants to score in transition - against a defense that isn't set - no coach would advocate not pushing the ball off of missed shots - particularly if you have a team of decent athletes.  You slow the pace when you are severely undermanned/undertalented - which we are not, other than at the PG position.

[Goose]

Ners,
I agree on Wilson but Dawson can't play a lick either. Our best two guard is JJJ and Jamil is best PG. Dawson is not the answer IMO.

[NersEllenson]

Why is it so hard for some to believe that Derrick is playing exactly how Buzz is wanting/asking him to play? What if Buzz said: "Derrick, I want you to play hard on defense and slow the game down so we work 100% in the halfcourt?" And you've got posters here berating Derrick for no transition game. I certainly don't know what directions Derrick is being given, and neither do you. What if Buzz is telling Derrick not to shoot any 3s? It seems pretty obvious to me that Buzz is telling the teams something about shooting as I haven't seen nearly the number of trailing 3s that Lazar and Crowder used to take.

And the argument of "play Dawson for 30 minutes so we can get a baseline" is just absurd. No coach, team or player should ever be expected to go though that for any reason. It seems to just be a please-some-disgruntled-fans idea.

First, Buzz has said this season that we need to be better in transition, so doubt he's telling Derrick not to push the ball.  No team wants to play against a set defense, if they can get 3 on 2, 4 on 3 situations, especially when the alternative in the halfcourt in Buzz's words is playing 4 on 5 due to Derrick's limitations.

As for the bolded - No, it isn't absurd to ask for the backup when the starter is so ineffective.  We basically have the equivalent of Brandon Weedon (Browns QB) running our offense - Derrick's O Rating is dead last on the team, and by a significant margin, and we have a very relevant sample size.  We are 0-6 against Top 75 teams.  It isn't foolish in any sense to see what your backup can do, when your starter is so utterly ineffective.

[NersEllenson]

Ners,
I agree on Wilson but Dawson can't play a lick either. Our best two guard is JJJ and Jamil is best PG. Dawson is not the answer IMO.

I disagree that Dawson can't play a lick - he's put up comparable numbers to Derrick, in very short stints of action, and the kid is only in his 6 month in the program.  Derrick's had 2.5 years, and this is what we are getting out of him with all that experience.  I have a very strong feeling if Dawson got 25-30 minutes of run, he'd put up better numbers than Derrick and the team as a whole would function much better.  Hopefully, we'll soon get to see this - perhaps all it will take is a loss to DePaul today.  It saddened me that I wasn't even willing to bet MU -11.5 to DePaul today at home.  Wouldn't surprise me if Derrick gets 30 minutes again that this game comes down to the wire.  Hopefully not, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Sorry Gooo, but you and a few others are simply in denial as to how bad Derrick's "performance" is negatively impacting this team.  Virtually every team wants to score in transition - against a defense that isn't set - no coach would advocate not pushing the ball off of missed shots - particularly if you have a team of decent athletes.  You slow the pace when you are severely undermanned/undertalented - which we are not, other than at the PG position.

Or you slow the pace when your "best" player is an overweight, slow-footed post player and you want to actually have him involved in the offense.  It is not as simple as what you are saying.

Derrick has been pushing the ball the last few games, but it is rare that there is anybody there with him other than a couple of guys from the other team.  That is not a coincidence, it is a choice/decision made by the coaching staff on style of play.

[NersEllenson]

Or you slow the pace when your "best" player is an overweight, slow-footed post player and you want to actually have him involved in the offense.  It is not as simple as what you are saying.

Derrick has been pushing the ball the last few games, but it is rare that there is anybody there with him other than a couple of guys from the other team.  That is not a coincidence, it is a choice/decision made by the coaching staff on style of play.

Sure, but what's the point of that when you get in the halfcourt and that "best, slow footed" post player faces constant double teams due to having a PG that doesn't need to be defended?

And sorry, but no coaching staff doesn't want to score points in transition, especially when playing 4 on 5 in the halfcourt game.  And those are Buzz's words, not some made up b.s.  Buzz knows it, sees it, realizes it - at some point I suspect he'll make the change as he'll come to the conclusion that as much as he likes Derrick as a kid - the team simply cannot win against top opponents with him getting 30 minutes of run at PG.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Sure, but what's the point of that when you get in the halfcourt and that "best, slow footed" post player faces constant double teams due to having a PG that doesn't need to be defended?

And sorry, but no coaching staff doesn't want to score points in transition, especially when playing 4 on 5 in the halfcourt game.  And those are Buzz's words, not some made up b.s.  Buzz knows it, sees it, realizes it - at some point I suspect he'll make the change as he'll come to the conclusion that as much as he likes Derrick as a kid - the team simply cannot win against top opponents with him getting 30 minutes of run at PG.

The point is that Buzz likely thinks that's the way the team can win and is telling them to play that way. 

I hope for all of our sakes that rather than inserting an unproven freshman PG for 30 minutes a game, that Buzz loosens the reins and lets the guys play.  I don't think the whole paint touches philosophy is working for the group of guys that we have this year.

[NersEllenson]

The point is that Buzz likely thinks that's the way the team can win and is telling them to play that way. 

I hope for all of our sakes that rather than inserting an unproven freshman PG for 30 minutes a game, that Buzz loosens the reins and lets the guys play.  I don't think the whole paint touches philosophy is working for the group of guys that we have this year.

Agree to disagree on the bolded.  And has Buzz explicitly said NO shots can be taken without a paint touch?  If so, when did he say that?  I simply cannot believe that if Jake Thomas had a wide open 3, or the other guys with 10 toes to the line - that Buzz is coaching them to not shoot those shots.

On another note, why do you think the whole paint touches strategy isn't working this year, when it has worked so well in past years?  Pretty sure we were last in the Big East last year in 3 pt shooting percentage, yet still got to the Elite 8 and were good enough to win a share of the former Big East Conference regular season championship.  So let's not say the paint touches strategy worked last year because we were a better shooting perimeter team....there is one and only one answer as to why things aren't working this year and it's the PG getting 30 minutes a game.  Period.

[forgetful]

Agree to disagree on the bolded.  And has Buzz explicitly said NO shots can be taken without a paint touch?  If so, when did he say that?  I simply cannot believe that if Jake Thomas had a wide open 3, or the other guys with 10 toes to the line - that Buzz is coaching them to not shoot those shots.

On another note, why do you think the whole paint touches strategy isn't working this year, when it has worked so well in past years?  Pretty sure we were last in the Big East last year in 3 pt shooting percentage, yet still got to the Elite 8 and were good enough to win a share of the former Big East Conference regular season championship.  So let's not say the paint touches strategy worked last year because we were a better shooting perimeter team....there is one and only one answer as to why things aren't working this year and it's the PG getting 30 minutes a game.  Period.

Jake and Jake alone may have an exception to that rule.  But Buzz did say in the press conference after the last game that they have a rule, no shots until a paint touch.  He emphasized that Juan took a shot early without a paint touch and was pulled out of the game immediately for it.

That is why a couple of us have been emphasizing that Juan not shooting is no necessarily because he doesn't want to shoot, rather he is following the team rule.

[GGGG]

Agree to disagree on the bolded.  And has Buzz explicitly said NO shots can be taken without a paint touch?  If so, when did he say that?  I simply cannot believe that if Jake Thomas had a wide open 3, or the other guys with 10 toes to the line - that Buzz is coaching them to not shoot those shots.

On another note, why do you think the whole paint touches strategy isn't working this year, when it has worked so well in past years?  Pretty sure we were last in the Big East last year in 3 pt shooting percentage, yet still got to the Elite 8 and were good enough to win a share of the former Big East Conference regular season championship.  So let's not say the paint touches strategy worked last year because we were a better shooting perimeter team....there is one and only one answer as to why things aren't working this year and it's the PG getting 30 minutes a game.  Period.

Ners, again, no one is really arguing that the PG play is ineffective.  Most of us simply don't believe that "John Dawson Time..." is a better option.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Jake and Jake alone may have an exception to that rule.  But Buzz did say in the press conference after the last game that they have a rule, no shots until a paint touch.  He emphasized that Juan took a shot early without a paint touch and was pulled out of the game immediately for it.

That is why a couple of us have been emphasizing that Juan not shooting is no necessarily because he doesn't want to shoot, rather he is following the team rule.

Yeah, sort of troubling to me. Buzz has always been great at adapting to his teams, but the Buzz this year has been hesitant to make any real adjustments. Hopefully that will change. I think we can all agree on that.

As to whether Dawson needs to be playing 30 mins a night - I tend to think It is time to make Jamil the main PG with Derrick backing him up for 15-18 mins. It is time. JJJ, Burton and Steve need more minutes.