[Cracked Sidewalks] We are what we are?

[NotAnAlum]

James had an offer from Purdue (they really wanted him) and I beleive Lazar was offered by U-Conn along with Wes who as you said was offered by WI so its not like we always lose.  However, it seems we've had more than our share of disappointment.

[augoman]

wow, great posts, and I couldn't agree more re loss of FBE being much more painful than loss of IS in terms of need, however, IS had an aura as a top 15 (concensus) player that can't be duplicated.  A true 'coup' for us would be to land a top 25 center (obviously).  Then I think, building on him, we could recruit power forwards and so on.  As far as the list of recent sucesses, few of them were actually concensus top 100 recruits- some were 3 star-rated for one reason or another.  As we all know, team chemistry is vital to wins, and many 5 stars fail to perform as expected.  With that caveat in mind, I assume we can salvage the class, but I don't want another year of 'pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining.'

[tower912]

We ARE a concensus pre-season top 15 school.   We ARE a team with 20 conference wins in two years in the BE.   We ARE as deep a team as MU has had since the Carter administration.   We ARE going to have our best team and probably best season since the FF year.
Guys, we lost out on two of our top targets.   The school didn't close down, the plane didn't crash, TC wasn't found in bed with PRN or Murf.    The program is in good hands.    We will continue to get quality recruits and miss out on others.    We AREN'T Duke, KU, UNC.   We can't just show up and have the kids fling themselves at us like an asian carp in the Mississippi river.    In through the nose, hold, out through the mouth.

[Murffieus]

TC's only exceptional recruiting classes were his first class and the first BE/McGuire Center class. I could be wrong on this, but he might be spreading himself to thin by having too many recruits on the radar at any one time----Al was just the opposite as he targeted just a couple guys each year and spent all his time (when he wasn't playing gin rummey with his cronies) on them.

It seems to me that when you target oodles of recruits at the same time you spread yourself pretty thin and would also seem to me like the old Abbott & Costello sitcom joke where Lou Costello is confused about who is on first base, who is on 2nd base, and who is on 3rd!

Focus is very important in recruiting!

[Pakuni]

Really, the only player we've signed recently where we honestly had to beat out a top notch competitor was Matthews, and much of his decision was based on the desire to separate himself from his father's legacy. Heck, even Notre Dame has outrecruited us recently and I think MU has a much better basketball program.

Chicos -- there's a reason these kids are saying no. I obviously don't know why, but
I have suspicions.

When Shumpert chose GT over UNC, was it Roy Williams' fault? Was it Roy's Huckleberry Hound appearance that turned him off? How about when Kevin Love chose UCLA over Duke and Kansas? Was he saying "yes" to Howland, or was it "No" to Coach K and Bill Self?
These kids aren't saying 'No' to Marquette. They're saying 'Yes' to other schools, likely for a variety of reasons ranging from playing time to the campus to the weather to, perhaps even the coach. But it's extremely unlikely MU is a finalist for Shumpert or any of these other kids they've lost out on if the player had a problem with Crean. If Crean's personality were as off-putting as you claim, Marquette wouldn't get very far with these kids. It's not as if kids are beating down the door to come to Marquette like they are with Duke, UNC, Kansas and a few others. If MU gets to be a finalist qith a top-flite player, it's largely because of Tom Crean.
Why the heck would Shumpert have ranked Marquette in his top 3 if he found Tom Crean to be so distasteful? He wouldn't.
 

[spartan3186]

James had an offer from Purdue (they really wanted him) and I beleive Lazar was offered by U-Conn along with Wes who as you said was offered by WI so its not like we always lose

We've actually beat out a lot of top notch programs for  lot of guys heres a list of offers that they got according to rivals

Mbakwe- Wisconsin, Florida, Georgetown, Illinois
Chistopherson- Wisconsin, Washington State
Hayward- Pitt, Virginia (It says no offer by Uconn)
James- Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue, Iowa
Matthews- Wisconsin, Georgia Tech
Amo- Minnesota, Iowa State
Novak- Illinois, Florida

Thats just a sampling of some of the players and big names we beat out, all in all we close on some guys we dont on others, its an individual basis. You can't sign everyone

[MUinCO]

All good posts.  I guess I would ask the "next question"....could someone else out there do it better?  Would someone else come to MU, put in the time, stay, and do better than the current staff?

If I had to pick a name out of the hat it would be Steve Alford; he has done a bang up job at New Mexico assembling something close to 6...8 ranked class (Yes, the coaching part is still TBD).  Indecently, doing precisely what TC has been trying to do as of late...by showing Texas (Houston to be exact) a little extra recruiting love. 

I know he was a little up and down at Iowa, but if TC were to leave in 6-8 years and Alford has the Lobos hitting on all cylinders at the same time he would be a solid choice for Marquette.

[bma725]

James had an offer from Purdue (they really wanted him) and I beleive Lazar was offered by U-Conn along with Wes who as you said was offered by WI so its not like we always lose.  However, it seems we've had more than our share of disappointment.

Hayward didn't have an offer from UConn, but they were heavily involved with him.  The thought at the time was that they would offer when he had his official visit at Midnight Madness.  But his visit to MU was a week before that, and he committed to MU 4 days after that visit.

[Pakuni]

All good posts.  I guess I would ask the "next question"....could someone else out there do it better?  Would someone else come to MU, put in the time, stay, and do better than the current staff?

If I had to pick a name out of the hat it would be Steve Alford; he has done a bang up job at New Mexico assembling something close to 6...8 ranked class (Yes, the coaching part is still TBD).  Indecently, doing precisely what TC has been trying to do as of late...by showing Texas (Houston to be exact) a little extra recruiting love. 

I know he was a little up and down at Iowa, but if TC were to leave in 6-8 years and Alford has the Lobos hitting on all cylinders at the same time he would be a solid choice for Marquette.

I'd rather finish at the bottom of the Big East annually than have a person like Steve Alford associated with Marquette basketball.

[bma725]

James had an offer from Purdue (they really wanted him) and I beleive Lazar was offered by U-Conn along with Wes who as you said was offered by WI so its not like we always lose

We've actually beat out a lot of top notch programs for  lot of guys heres a list of offers that they got according to rivals

Mbakwe- Wisconsin, Florida, Georgetown, Illinois
Chistopherson- Wisconsin, Washington State
Hayward- Pitt, Virginia (It says no offer by Uconn)
James- Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue, Iowa
Matthews- Wisconsin, Georgia Tech
Amo- Minnesota, Iowa State
Novak- Illinois, Florida

Thats just a sampling of some of the players and big names we beat out, all in all we close on some guys we dont on others, its an individual basis. You can't sign everyone

A few more according to Scout:

Brandon Bell: Pittsburgh, West Virginia
James Matthews: Texas A&M, USC
Ousmane Barro: Auburn, Depaul, Iowa State
Mbakwe: Minnesota, Iowa State

Also I'm pretty sure DJ had an offer from Notre Dame, but they backed off when he wouldn't commit early.

[bs4173]

Murf: Focus is very important in recruiting!

Agreed wholeheartedly. I think some recruits see how many other kids Crean has an interest in (not to mention recruits like Fulce that nobody knew about) and it brings into question the seriousness with which the coaching staff is approaching each recruit. Not to say they did that with Shumpert, but it seems like they have too many recruits on their plate at a time to sometimes give each recruit enough attention.

[ChicosBailBonds]

PRN....I gave you those three names as players that came to MU because of CREAN and they were top players.  INcluding the kids on the team now.

You can't have it both ways yet you are trying.  You are stating why kids aren't coming here and saying it's Crean when all one has to do is look at the damn roster to see plenty of top 100 kids now and past that came because of him, yet you ignore that entirely.  I just don't get it.

Yeah, we lost 3 kids to Ga. Tech, Louisville and wherever.  We're losing kids to some fantastic basketball programs, that's the way it goes.

I said months ago I didn't think we would land all these kids and thought the expectations for this class were too high.  A lot of winks and nods from folks on the other board that indicated they were done deals didn't happen in reality.  Recruiting is a tough situation.

I remember watching Ben Howland's first two classes and how he missed out on all these top kids and Bruins fans were beside themselves, then the kids he did get ended up being coachable and extremely productive.

Now let's see how things shake out here at MU. 

[4everwarriors]

Are you getting restless too? PRN and I were just years ahead of our time or had the foresight.

[Pakuni]

Are you getting restless too? PRN and I were just years ahead of our time or had the foresight.

Yep, a couple of guys who continue to obsess over a long-dead nickname are way ahead of their time.

[rocky_warrior]

Duke and UNC having problems recruiting...
    http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/story/744287.html
I wonder what's wrong with Roy and Coach K ??? Lol...

[ecompt]

Gotta go with Pakuni on this one...I want no part of Steve Alford coaching MU.

[NYWarrior]

Gotta go with Pakuni on this one...I want no part of Steve Alford coaching MU.

Oh man, NFW on Alford.

MU's in very good hands.  no need to rush this along imho

[ecompt]

Aside to Murff: Anyone who compares recruiting now to recruiting in Al's day is foolish. It's a TOTALLY diferent ballgame.

[chefrad]

 

What we are in ranked in the top 12. Wow, what a disgrace!

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

Are you getting restless too? PRN and I were just years ahead of our time or had the foresight.

Yep, a couple of guys who continue to obsess over a long-dead nickname are way ahead of their time.

Lol. That's pretty unnatural carnal knowledgeing funny.

[Dry White Toast]

Don't want to sound facist, but can we ban anyone who ever mentions Alford at MU?  He is an a-hole and a horrible coach.

[MUinCO]

Don't want to sound facist, but can we ban anyone who ever mentions Alford at MU?  He is an a-hole and a horrible coach.

Never suggested that Marquette SHOULD get Alford...just that he could be a potential in the future given a lot of caveats.  I don't know enough about the guy to say whether or not he's a bad coach; all I know is that he was very up and down at Iowa, had a couple of conference championships and nothing but early exits from the tourney.  He had one year to turn it around at Iowa and instead chose to escape to New Mexico...for $975K.  Not sure why anyone on this board would feel so strongly about the guy, a-hole or not.

Anyway, being a UNM fan as well, I was actually a little upset at the choice of 'what's his face' particularly at that salary.  I will say that he's definitely turned some heads in the Mountain West putting together a solid recruiting class (I heard 6 or 8?) doing the very thing TC is trying to do, recruit Texas.  My point is, if he happens to turn a program mired in mediocrity like UNM after a few short years, go deep into the tourney, given his background (IU, Bobby Knight, NBA, ect.) he could actually become a hot commodity on the coaching market. 

Maybe Crean stays at MU till he retires at 80, maybe not; but getting away from, you know who...what's his name, what kind of coaches make inviting targets 5-10 years down the line should TC leave?  Latest up-in-comer assistant from Izzo's staff?  An established, and very expensive, winner from a successful program?  Getting back to the title of this post, "We are what we are," I say what we are has been changing drastically since TC got here and a whole new set of tradition and standard of success is being established right now. 

I would like to think that what MU is and will become means competing with the nation's top programs for recruits (and winning some), being mentioned in the same breath as KU and Duke, and yes...becoming one of the most desirable coaching destinations in D-1 ball. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

MU's athletic department is so lacking in self confidence that they'd probably let Crean hand-pick his successor.

[Henry Sugar]

Never suggested that Marquette SHOULD get Alford...just that he could be a potential in the future given a lot of caveats. should never ever be considered as a candidate for Marquette.  I don't know enough about the guy to say whether or not he's a bad coach; all I know is that he was very up and down at Iowa, had a couple of conference championships and nothing but early exits from the tourney.  kept a rapist on his team and tried to intimidate the rape victim.

Pierre Pierce'd

[MUinCO]

MU's athletic department is so lacking in self confidence that they'd probably let Crean hand-pick his successor.

I agree, that would probably be a mistake...unless of course, his successor also happens to be a point guard.