Observations from a non-fan

[MU82]

I agree with the leader thing.  It needs to be Jamil.  Trouble is, he is too nice of a guy. If you ever meet him, he's a great guy.  I spent 20+ minutes with him last spring.  Enjoyed every minute of it.

Someone has to get him ticked off.  Really ticked off.  Yesterday was the first time I've seen him play live. He was the best athlete on the floor.  By a long shot.  Dude has NBA skills.  Too bad he chooses to waste them.

If Jamil gets it figured out...the leadership thing, this team will be dangerous.  

I dunno. Tim Duncan -- a.k.a. "The Big Easy" -- very good leader. Wayne Gretzky, one of the great guys in sports, very good leader. Joe Montana, a sweetheart, not a bad leader. Derek Jeter, never has a bad thing to say, good leader. I could go on

One need not be a jerk to be a good leader.

[real chili 83]

I dunno. Tim Duncan -- a.k.a. "The Big Easy" -- very good leader. Wayne Gretzky, one of the great guys in sports, very good leader. Joe Montana, a sweetheart, not a bad leader. Derek Jeter, never has a bad thing to say, good leader. I could go on

One need not be a jerk to be a good leader.

Never met those guys, so I can't argue your points.

Just know Jamil has the ability to do it. He just has to want to.

[MU82]

Never met those guys, so I can't argue your points.

Just know Jamil has the ability to do it. He just has to want to.

I agree with you. A nice guy can want to lead -- and can lead very effectively. Those traits are not mutually exclusive.

[MUfan12]

They got completely outworked yesterday. They lost just about every 50-50 ball, which helped UW keep them at arms length. Not to mention the lazy closeouts and rotations.

They don't get how hard they have to play to overcome their deficiencies yet.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not part of it, all of it.

Which begs the question why don't we do more to get him open.  It's hard for me to believe some of the guys over the years like Alford, etc, were any more athletic, but maybe they were.  Those teams would set double, triple staggered screens if they had to get those shooters open. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

That's what has frustrated me. No effort to shed guys off our one legitimate three point shooter. Yet other teams put shots from above the arc seemingly at will

[Lennys Tap]

Which begs the question why don't we do more to get him open.  It's hard for me to believe some of the guys over the years like Alford, etc, were any more athletic, but maybe they were.  Those teams would set double, triple staggered screens if they had to get those shooters open. 

Alford was way more athletic. He could get his own shot and spent a lot of time at the free throw like. Jake is much more like Steve Novak athletically. Problem is he's 6'3" not 6'10" and only a good shooter not a great one. Why would a team with as good shooters (J Wilson, Mayo) and much better scorers (everyone on the team but Derrick and Dylan Flood) be running triple screens for A guy who shoots in the low 30s?

[MU82]

Alford was way more athletic. He could get his own shot and spent a lot of time at the free throw like. Jake is much more like Steve Novak athletically. Problem is he's 6'3" not 6'10" and only a good shooter not a great one. Why would a team with as good shooters (J Wilson, Mayo) and much better scorers (everyone on the team but Derrick and Dylan Flood) be running triple screens for A guy who shoots in the low 30s?

Exactly. Alford was the best player on a championship team. Novak was one of the best shooters in basketball history. You make springing them the major part of your offense.

Jake Thomas is ... well ... not Steve Alford or Steve Novak.

[brandx]

Alford was way more athletic. He could get his own shot and spent a lot of time at the free throw like. Jake is much more like Steve Novak athletically. Problem is he's 6'3" not 6'10" and only a good shooter not a great one. Why would a team with as good shooters (J Wilson, Mayo) and much better scorers (everyone on the team but Derrick and Dylan Flood) be running triple screens for A guy who shoots in the low 30s?

And why waste the effort on a triple-screen when the PG doesn't know how to get him the ball anyway?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Exactly. Alford was the best player on a championship team. Novak was one of the best shooters in basketball history. You make springing them the major part of your offense.

Jake Thomas is ... well ... not Steve Alford or Steve Novak.

To be clear, I'm not saying Jake Thomas is Alford or Novak.  I'm asking the question why we don't seem to run many screens for the guy.  As for Alford creating his own shot, I guess my memory is fuzzy because I don't remember it that way.  I don't remember it that way in RMK's basketball theory class either, I remember the words that he was slow as a donkey but he worked his butt off and they played smart basketball to clear him for some open shots.  Who knows the memory can be fuzzy, I just don't remember it.

[MUMountin]

I think J Will became the leader yesterday.  Looked like he said ENOUGH and was putting it out there.  That's my hope anyway.  Not sure DG is the leader type, not really sure J Will is either, but I saw some flashes of it.  Your team big fella, seize it.  Show these guys how to win and more importantly, how to never quit.

I sure hope so, but I feel like Jamil has shown this tenacity in end-of-game situations before (see Davidson) when their back is against the wall, but doesn't carry over the intensity to the next game.  Seems like he often gets going late in games--and unfortunately this season often too late in the game--but struggles to bring the passion for the whole 40 minutes.  Need to see that fervor all game long for him to really be a leader.

[WarriorFan]

To be clear, I'm not saying Jake Thomas is Alford or Novak.  I'm asking the question why we don't seem to run many screens for the guy.  As for Alford creating his own shot, I guess my memory is fuzzy because I don't remember it that way.  I don't remember it that way in RMK's basketball theory class either, I remember the words that he was slow as a donkey but he worked his butt off and they played smart basketball to clear him for some open shots.  Who knows the memory can be fuzzy, I just don't remember it.


[/quote
Alford got more screens than all the cabins in the Rhinelander woods.  He was a great (college) player who had a great coach who got him the looks he needed to shoot or create.  Jake could do the same but he's not good enough to center our offense on him, so he needs to pick his spots.

The big difference I noted is that Bo's players all catch and shot fake and then pass or create.  our guys just catch and pass.  No threat. 

More screens... more shot fakes = more 3's.

[bilsu]

To be clear, I'm not saying Jake Thomas is Alford or Novak.  I'm asking the question why we don't seem to run many screens for the guy.  As for Alford creating his own shot, I guess my memory is fuzzy because I don't remember it that way.  I don't remember it that way in RMK's basketball theory class either, I remember the words that he was slow as a donkey but he worked his butt off and they played smart basketball to clear him for some open shots.  Who knows the memory can be fuzzy, I just don't remember it.

Buzz does not run screans for three point shooters. Under Buzz's offense when the guard gets the ball he is expected to drive or pass inside. Jake is what he is, but he is probably playing on the wrong team for him to be successful.

[MerrittsMustache]

Buzz does not run screans for three point shooters. Under Buzz's offense when the guard gets the ball he is expected to drive or pass inside. Jake is what he is, but he is probably playing on the wrong team for him to be successful.

Not true at all. Buzz has run plenty sets for Jake to get 3s this season.

[mu03eng]

Buzz does not run screans for three point shooters. Under Buzz's offense when the guard gets the ball he is expected to drive or pass inside. Jake is what he is, but he is probably playing on the wrong team for him to be successful.

Disagree, most of the wing action is down screens from the 4 and 5 to free Jake or another shooter.

[Lennys Tap]

To be clear, I'm not saying Jake Thomas is Alford or Novak.  I'm asking the question why we don't seem to run many screens for the guy.  As for Alford creating his own shot, I guess my memory is fuzzy because I don't remember it that way.  I don't remember it that way in RMK's basketball theory class either, I remember the words that he was slow as a donkey but he worked his butt off and they played smart basketball to clear him for some open shots.  Who knows the memory can be fuzzy, I just don't remember it.

In his senior year (the only year he played with a 3 point line) Alford shot 180 free throws and 60+% of his field goal attempts were inside the arc. His junior year he was 1st team AA with no 3 point line. So, yes, your memory is fuzzy. On an unrelated topic, you took "Basketball Theory" in graduate school? No Horton Roe music courses available at IU

[ChicosBailBonds]

In his senior year (the only year he played with a 3 point line) Alford shot 180 free throws and 60+% of his field goal attempts were inside the arc. His junior year he was 1st team AA with no 3 point line. So, yes, your memory is fuzzy. On an unrelated topic, you took "Basketball Theory" in graduate school? No Horton Roe music courses available at IU

Didn't take the class, was an observer since I was in grad school. 

Looks like other people here have the same fuzzy memory I did, and apparently Coach Knight did as well as he used to talk about how they would need to run Steve off multiple screens to get him open because he was too slow.  Down screens, cross screens, slip screens, back screens, etc.

One of many blurbs, this from the NY Times....helping to keep my memory not so fuzzy.

I think UNLV said it well in the NCAA tournament in 1987 Final Four.  ''Steve Alford's tough because the entire team is designed to set picks and screens,'' said Mark Wade, the Rebels' guard who was assigned to Alford for much of the game.  ''We knew what to expect,'' Wade added. ''In practice we ran through the picks. But in practice the guy setting the pick could be your friend. Out here it was a lot more intense. Tonight, they were looking for me.''  ''It's like trying to get through an offensive line,'' Wade said. ''Everytime you turn around, somebody's setting a pick on you, and the whole offense is geared for getting Steve open and they do a good job of it.''

After the game, Alford said: ''My teammates did an awfully good job of screening for me and having the ball in good position for me. My job is to be in constant movement and read the screen and read the defensive man and be able to knock the jump shot in, and fortunately today a lot of those things happened.''

I'd also suggest picking up a book called "Playing for Knight:  My six seasons with Coach Knight".  Written by a guy named Steve Alford.   
 

[tower912]

Knight had guys who's job it was to set screens and play defense.   His motion offense at IU was predicated on off-the-ball movement and screens.    He could also run sets specifically to get shooters open, witness Todd Leary against Duke in the '92 semi-final.   Who?   Look it up.   IU was way down, Knight sent in a guy with one job, to make 3's.   They started running him off of double screens and he started raining.   Knight's IU teams in the late 70's, 80's and through the mid 90's were some of my favorites to watch.   Then his crankiness started repelling recruits.  

Another thing about IU under Knight.   They didn't have a zone offense.   He was so confident and comfortable with his motion offense that he thought he could beat zones with it.   His track record shows that he was right.   He also wasn't afraid to go small and have 6'2 guys guarding 6'9 guys.   He sincerely believed that proper technique and help principles out of his man-to-man would be enough to offset the size differential. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Knight had guys who's job it was to set screens and play defense.   His motion offense at IU was predicated on off-the-ball movement and screens.    He could also run sets specifically to get shooters open, witness Todd Leary against Duke in the '92 semi-final.   Who?   Look it up.   IU was way down, Knight sent in a guy with one job, to make 3's.   They started running him off of double screens and he started raining.   Knight's IU teams in the late 70's, 80's and through the mid 90's were some of my favorites to watch.   Then his crankiness started repelling recruits.  

Another thing about IU under Knight.   They didn't have a zone offense.   He was so confident and comfortable with his motion offense that he thought he could beat zones with it.   His track record shows that he was right.   He also wasn't afraid to go small and have 6'2 guys guarding 6'9 guys.   He sincerely believed that proper technique and help principles out of his man-to-man would be enough to offset the size differential. 

Correct

[Lennys Tap]

Didn't take the class, was an observer since I was in grad school. 

Looks like other people here have the same fuzzy memory I did, and apparently Coach Knight did as well as he used to talk about how they would need to run Steve off multiple screens to get him open because he was too slow.  Down screens, cross screens, slip screens, back screens, etc.

One of many blurbs, this from the NY Times....helping to keep my memory not so fuzzy.

I think UNLV said it well in the NCAA tournament in 1987 Final Four.  ''Steve Alford's tough because the entire team is designed to set picks and screens,'' said Mark Wade, the Rebels' guard who was assigned to Alford for much of the game.  ''We knew what to expect,'' Wade added. ''In practice we ran through the picks. But in practice the guy setting the pick could be your friend. Out here it was a lot more intense. Tonight, they were looking for me.''  ''It's like trying to get through an offensive line,'' Wade said. ''Everytime you turn around, somebody's setting a pick on you, and the whole offense is geared for getting Steve open and they do a good job of it.''

After the game, Alford said: ''My teammates did an awfully good job of screening for me and having the ball in good position for me. My job is to be in constant movement and read the screen and read the defensive man and be able to knock the jump shot in, and fortunately today a lot of those things happened.''

I'd also suggest picking up a book called "Playing for Knight:  My six seasons with Coach Knight".  Written by a guy named Steve Alford.   
 

So how does a slow guy who does nothing but run around screens and shoot 3s shoot 60% of his shots from inside the arc and shoot 180 free throws?

As for reading a book written by Steve Alford, I hope you're kidding.

[mileskishnish72]

Would have to agree that we were outhustled - loose balls, OOB plays,etc.
keefer, please don't include photos like the one above without appropriate warnings.

[brandx]

So how does a slow guy who does nothing but run around screens and shoot 3s shoot 60% of his shots from inside the arc and shoot 180 free throws?

Playing with guards like Keith Smart and Ricky Callaway helps. It helps even more when you can put the ball on the floor and you have a Knight-coached team that was as good as any at setting screens both for the ball handler and off-ball.

[77ncaachamps]

And why waste the effort on a triple-screen when the PG doesn't know how to get him the ball anyway?

Plus, he can't do much with the ball when a defender swings to him.
Ever see him blow by anyone? If you did, it was rare. And it may have been in a Coyotes' uni.

Buzz does not run screans for three point shooters. Under Buzz's offense when the guard gets the ball he is expected to drive or pass inside. Jake is what he is, but he is probably playing on the wrong team for him to be successful.

I see what you did there.