Point Guard...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I do agree that last night Derrick was not the primary or even the secondary reason we lost.  We missed too many FTs and allowed too many putbacks to blame our PG, who actually did a good job on the defensive boards and by knocking a few balls away from their interior guys under the basket.  From an overall season perspective, hoqwever IMO PG is our biggest positional concern.

Fair enough.

I'm more concerned about Jamil... but maybe my own expectations are just too high.

I think Derrick can go 5/5/5 and the team can win a lot of games.

Jamil has to be better than 10/5 if MU wants to win a lot of games. He's gotta be higher usage and higher efficiency.

[BCHoopster]

 They blew out Gw, why, Jamil had 20 in the first half, as Jamil goes, so goes this team.

[GGGG]

They blew out Gw, why, Jamil had 20 in the first half, as Jamil goes, so goes this team.

Jamil had 20 v. Fullerton.  They blew out GW and Jamil only had 5.

[NersEllenson]

My God you're a clueless boob.

Says the guy who thought Mayo was terrible against GW...talk about clueless.

[MU82]

My point about Derrick's scoring was that fans like points. If a guy doesn't score many points, fans want him replaced. If a guy occasionally scores some points, especially in the form of 3s or dunks, let him play 40 minutes! Fans like points!  (intentional hyperbole)

Yes, I would like a future NBA player (Siva, Carson, etc) running the point over Derrick Wilson. So would Buzz. But what does that have to do with anything? While we're at it, what if MU had Julius Randle instead of Gardner and Marcus Smart instead of Jake? I bet MU would be 8-0!

Great comment by Guns n Ammo: The best players need to be better. Once that happens, I'll start worrying about Derrick.

I'm going to give most fans here on Scoop credit for recognizing that a player can be valuable even if he isn't scoring many points. Maybe I shouldn't, but I will.

I was only using the Carson/Derrick what-if to illustrate what a difference a guard who can hit the occasional jumper might make to the team. And I think you're smart enough to know that.

[Wojo'sMojo]

If Wilson average 15 ppg but was careless with the basketball and couldn't defend at all, would people still consider PG a problem? I can guarantee that there wouldn't be nearly as many threads about him if that was the case.

So far, Derrick is averaging 5.5 points and 4.4 assists. That means he's accounting for about 14.3 ppg (assume 2 pts per assist). Last season Junior averaged 8.5 points and 3.8 assists so he accounted for about 16.1 ppg. Throw in the fact that Junior averaged nearly 1 more TO/game and it's pretty close to being a wash in terms of offensive production.

Numbers aren't telling the whole story...The offense is not running optimally because D Wilson presents no chance to hit a shot outside of 5 ft. He is absolutely atrocious on the offensive end and his lack of a jump shot is clogging things up for the rest of the players on the court. Cadoughan at least could drive and penetrate and give teammates open looks. The offense is stagnant with him running the point and it's disheartening to watch.

[forgetful]

Derrick isn't a good shooter, and teams are sagging off. That is correct.

However, the idea that a good shooting PG would magically solve Jamil, Juan and Todd's deficiencies is too simplistic.

If that were the case, MU could simply insert Mayo at the PG, and the offense would magically open up. I don't think that is a the case.

Not saying it would resolve all the deficiencies, you are right...that would be too simplistic.  Just indicating it is a large part of the issue and those looking at the points production out of Wilson and saying he is doing well are not understanding the larger scope of his role/effect on the offense.

The other aspect having a large effect on all aspects of our offense is poor floor spacing (independent of D. Wilson's defender).  We have too many guys trying to occupy the same space on the floor.  That is not helping at all.  This is most pronounced in the JUMBO lineup...which frankly isn't working. 

A third aspect that I haven't seen discussed much is the lack of effective screens/picks in our offense.  The offense just seems like chaos...no one is setting a screen, thus people aren't getting open.

An improved PG would help seems dramatically, but fixing the others would also improve the offense.  Since I don't think we have a better option at PG (sadly) we need to improve the efficiency and spacing of the offense.

[jesmu84]

Yes, I would like a future NBA player (Siva, Carson, etc) running the point over Derrick Wilson. So would Buzz. But what does that have to do with anything? While we're at it, what if MU had Julius Randle instead of Gardner and Marcus Smart instead of Jake? I bet MU would be 8-0!

Or if we had Shabazz Napier...

http://youtu.be/QLcOj6Z7Fus

[MU82]

Or if we had Shabazz Napier...

http://youtu.be/QLcOj6Z7Fus

I'd settle for a PG who hits 2-3 outside shots -- even 15-footers -- a game, just to make the opponent think he might occasionally burn them from outside.

But that's not the hand we've been dealt, at least so far this season.

Maybe Derrick will improve. Maybe Duane will get healthy and be a revelation. Maybe Dawson will grow up in a hurry. Maybe Jamil will play more PG than forward and play up to his potential. Maybe Mayo will log more time at 1.

Or maybe we're just going to be a team with a PG who can't make a single shot beyond 3 feet all season and we'll have to find other ways to win.

[Nevada233]

Dawson would have had a triple double by now.

+1

[Nevada233]

Wow - somebody gets it!!  The reason our wings and bigs are struggling so much is because Derrick Wilson is a total and complete non factor to hurt you from the perimeter.  Defenses sag off of him, pack the paint, and it makes it far more difficult for the bigs, or wings to get looks when you can help off a Point Guard so much.

And please, all the excuses that his 2nd half was the effect of the groin - as some have pointed out - he was chasing the SDSU point guard all over the floor, denying him the ball down the stretch.  He didn't lose an millisecond of quickness or explosion.  He is who he is - a guy who can score going right at the basket..and a very good defender.

Defenses dont even have to be honest when your 35 plus minute pg hasnt hit a jumpshot all season and the only point guard who has hit a 3 this year dawson... Doesnt even play against any team worth talkkng about.

[BCHoopster]

Derrick is getting a bad rap by most, blame the assistant coach who recruited him.  Derrick is fine if he had 4 other players who could score around him, with a limited offensive team, Derrick
just does not fit this team.  Can not run an offense when the point guard defender is not near him.  Dawson might have been as bad against Thames but they might have to guard him, can
not win right now against a decent team without a scoring point.  This might be Buzz's worst team unless he makes some changes quickly.  Should be Devante, JWill, Burton, Mayo and Wilson, get an offensive team around Derrick.  Jake is a 10 minute guy at most.

[MUrugger]

OK, I'll blame the assistant coach who recruited him.

[Dr. Blackheart]

OK, I'll blame the assistant coach who recruited him.

He is in Memphis.

[Nevada233]

Derrick is getting a bad rap by most, blame the assistant coach who recruited him.  Derrick is fine if he had 4 other players who could score around him, with a limited offensive team, Derrick
just does not fit this team.  Can not run an offense when the point guard defender is not near him.  Dawson might have been as bad against Thames but they might have to guard him, can
not win right now against a decent team without a scoring point.  This might be Buzz's worst team unless he makes some changes quickly.  Should be Devante, JWill, Burton, Mayo and Wilson, get an offensive team around Derrick.  Jake is a 10 minute guy at most.

Wilson is a good pg just not a Starter or 38 Min guy and im sure he knows that. There aren't many top 50 teams he'd even play 15 MPG for.

No knock on him. When i played basketball if the coach gave me lions share minutes id take em with no problem. But his defense is supposed to be so world renouned and i watched Thames and Carson of arizona state Torch him for 20 and 29 so it aint that great. 

Thomas is not a 30 minute guy either no way no how. These guys just dont have the talent to be starters their good ROLE players.

Dawson should be getting at least 10-15 mpg against more than grambling state the kid had a good inside and out w gardner against GW and hit the open 3. Something we havent seen from our 35 mpg guy all year. All im saying is with the starting back court we have and the future pgs injured and stacking up DNPs we should be concerned. Wilsons a great kid but just doesnt threaten opposing defenders and cant feed the post so the offense will remain stagnant.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm going to give most fans here on Scoop credit for recognizing that a player can be valuable even if he isn't scoring many points. Maybe I shouldn't, but I will.

I was only using the Carson/Derrick what-if to illustrate what a difference a guard who can hit the occasional jumper might make to the team. And I think you're smart enough to know that.

Therein lies your problem. The majority of Scoop posters, and basketball fans in general (not unique to MU) focus on points. Points are simple and clean and straightforward. Scoring points gets your name in the paper.

I understood the point you were trying to make but your examples were pretty ridiculous. If you want to claim that the offense would be better with a guy like Mo Acker running the point, I'd agree with you. It doesn't need to be a potential lottery pick.

[Nevada233]

Therein lies your problem. The majority of Scoop posters, and basketball fans in general (not unique to MU) focus on points. Points are simple and clean and straightforward. Scoring points gets your name in the paper.

I understood the point you were trying to make but your examples were pretty ridiculous. If you want to claim that the offense would be better with a guy like Mo Acker running the point, I'd agree with you. It doesn't need to be a potential lottery pick.

+10000

You dont need Kyrie Irving as pg. But i mean if you cant feed the post or hit an open shot every now and then. Well how far do you expect to go. Gardner is playing well even tho hes virtually double teamed 90% of the time before he even gets the ball by a sagging defender and thats a problem. The defenses arent even honest when defending the perimeter.

[GGGG]

The other aspect having a large effect on all aspects of our offense is poor floor spacing (independent of D. Wilson's defender).  We have too many guys trying to occupy the same space on the floor.  That is not helping at all.  This is most pronounced in the JUMBO lineup...which frankly isn't working. 

You are very much correct on this point.  The Jumbo lineup frankly sucks.  I think Buzz knows it is ineffective, but really had limited options when Jamil got himself into early foul trouble.  Taylor hasn't been playing well...and Burton is a freshman.  Hopefully after Burton's performance we will see more of him in that role.

[RushmoreAcademy]

He is not guarded...his man is 6 feet away at the closest and is doubling the post to deny ball entry instead of focusing on Wilson.  The help defenders are offering no help and sticking with the shooters.

This.  Wilson isn't the worst player, but he's sure making his own job, of getting our best scorers their best chance to score, a lot tougher.   I'm actually fine with him just taking the 15 footer when there are no defenders in site, but it it looks like the decision has been made that he isn't going to.

[Nevada233]

You are very much correct on this point.  The Jumbo lineup frankly sucks.  I think Buzz knows it is ineffective, but really had limited options when Jamil got himself into early foul trouble.  Taylor hasn't been playing well...and Burton is a freshman.  Hopefully after Burton's performance we will see more of him in that role.

The same problem the Knicks have Carmelo and Amare play in the same
Area and they have no spacing

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Not saying it would resolve all the deficiencies, you are right...that would be too simplistic.  Just indicating it is a large part of the issue and those looking at the points production out of Wilson and saying he is doing well are not understanding the larger scope of his role/effect on the offense.

The other aspect having a large effect on all aspects of our offense is poor floor spacing (independent of D. Wilson's defender).  We have too many guys trying to occupy the same space on the floor.  That is not helping at all.  This is most pronounced in the JUMBO lineup...which frankly isn't working. 

A third aspect that I haven't seen discussed much is the lack of effective screens/picks in our offense.  The offense just seems like chaos...no one is setting a screen, thus people aren't getting open.

An improved PG would help seems dramatically, but fixing the others would also improve the offense.  Since I don't think we have a better option at PG (sadly) we need to improve the efficiency and spacing of the offense.

I agree with you... sort of.

I definitely see where a good shooting PG would help this team. (that's easy).

What I can't figure out is how they were fine last year with Junior (who is a poor shooter) when teams sagged off of him, but now this year its a HUGE problem.  It's not like MU is significantly worse this year than they were last year. Yes, Junior took more jumpers than Derrick. He also MISSED a lot of jumpers, and teams sagged off of him.

That's why I don't think a better shooting PG is the magic bullet for this team. Would it help? Yes. Would it "solve" what is happening? I don't think so.

I hate to make it too simple... but the best players need to play better. Once that happens, then things will flow better, and we'll see how the PG play looks.

[brewcity77]

I hate to make it too simple... but the best players need to play better. Once that happens, then things will flow better, and we'll see how the PG play looks.

I don't think you're making it too simple at all. When we make shots (Grambling, ASU, CSF, GW) no one seems to complain about our point guard play despite DeWil not being a distance shooter. When we don't, (Southern, tOSU, UNH, SDSU), he gets criticized and his shooting woes come to the forefront. Jamil, Davante, and Todd are the stars of this team. When they produce, no one (well, almost no one) complains about Derrick. When they struggle, he catches most of the flack for their poor performances.