predicting the starting lineup: post-madness

[brewcity77]

I think you're selling him short. He's established as our best shooter from 15'. Judging from what I've seen (late last season and this year's Madness) he just as effortless and very accurate from beyond the arc, too.

Exhibition and game are two different things. Since his freshman year DG has been draining threes at the Pro Am, but he still hasn't hit one when it mattered (and that one against SU didn't matter). As a practice shooter, Jake is the best I've seen since Novak, but until he does it in games he's going to be rutted in single-digit minutes. Similarly, Gardner may be able to hit them in warmups, but until he shows he can hit some shots from range with consistency, it doesn't matter.

[ATL MU Warrior]

If Gardner even attempts a 3-pointer in a real game I'd be surprised.  And if he does, I think he's probably out of the game at the next opportunity for a "teaching moment". 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

If Gardner even attempts a 3-pointer in a real game I'd be surprised.  And if he does, I think he's probably out of the game at the next opportunity for a "teaching moment". 

Really wouldnt shock me at all to be honest. If Otule and him are on the court at the same time I can see Davante playing a stretch 4. Hes a guard trapped in a big mans body hes pretty decent off the dribble and I see him making more 3s then Derrick this year.

[GGGG]

Really wouldnt shock me at all to be honest. If Otule and him are on the court at the same time I can see Davante playing a stretch 4. Hes a guard trapped in a big mans body hes pretty decent off the dribble and I see him making more 3s then Derrick this year.

No...Gardner is not "a guard trapped in a big man's body."  Gardner is a throwback post player who can occasionally step out an hit an outside shot.  But that is not a regular part of his game, and until he can hit something consistently in a *real game situation*, that is what his game is.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

No...Gardner is not "a guard trapped in a big man's body."  Gardner is a throwback post player who can occasionally step out an hit an outside shot.  But that is not a regular part of his game, and until he can hit something consistently in a *real game situation*, that is what his game is.

Do you not remember when he ran the break capped off with a eurostep against Butler last year?

[GGGG]

Do you not remember when he ran the break capped off with a eurostep against Butler last year?

Obviously.  That doesn't mean he's a guard.  It means he has basketball skills that he can use when he has to.

Don't use the outlier to project his game.  The outlier is simply the outlier.

[Galway Eagle]

Obviously.  That doesn't mean he's a guard.  It means he has basketball skills that he can use when he has to.

Don't use the outlier to project his game.  The outlier is simply the outlier.

What about the fact he played PG growing up?  Does that help the case for a guard in a big man's body?   

[GGGG]

What about the fact he played PG growing up?  Does that help the case for a guard in a big man's body?   

Just look at his game now.  Look at what he does.  It is not only a big man's game, but it is a throwback to an earlier era, below the rim, big man's game.  Yeah, can he dribble when he has to?  Sure.  Did his childhood point guard skills help?  Sure.  But that's really not what his bread and butter is.

Kevin Durant is a guard trapped in a big man's body.  Magic Johnson was one too.  In some ways, so is Lebron James.

[Archies Bat]

What about the fact he played PG growing up?  Does that help the case for a guard in a big man's body?   

Why would we want him regulary outside when he's proven he can pick up points on the O-boards?  While STJ may also pick up points that way, isn't it better to have both pounding the boards, or at least alternating?

[jsglow]

The one thing I am absolutely certain about is that Chris starts every single game he's healthy and available.  Sure the tip is important.  But all one has to do is listen to the Lifetime Achievement Award presentation to understand.

What I'm interested in at the moment is the order for introductions as I believe Buzz takes that somewhat seriously.  Personally, I'd begin with JWill and finish with Chris but my instincts tell me it'll be: Chris, Juan/Todd (whoever starts), DeWill, Ox/Steve/Jameel, with Wilson being introduced in the 'Michael Jordan' final slot.

(You'll note that DWade continues to be the 'Jordan' introduction with the Heat.  He's earned that right in my mind.) 

[Galway Eagle]

Why would we want him regulary outside when he's proven he can pick up points on the O-boards?  While STJ may also pick up points that way, isn't it better to have both pounding the boards, or at least alternating?

Woah woah woah I at no point suggested I wanted DG regularly outside.  I'd like to see him play a bit of Jae and Zar style power forward with the occasional trailer three but don't want him playing the 3 and definitelly not rotating up top.  While I think he could do it his physical abilities (weight and endurance) prevent him. 

[THRILLHO]

I think you'll see DG take a *lot* more free-throw length shots, from the elbow, maybe from the corners, especially in Big East play. He will probably be our opponent's #1 defensive priority, and they will try to make life difficult for his play at the basket. If he can step out to the elbow and drain it regularly (as he did in one of the Syracuse games last year I believe), then he will be harder to stop. But even that mid-range shot, which I think everyone is pretty comfortable with him taking, was relatively rare last year. Let's see him do that regularly before we start asking him to take 3's in normal game situations.

[Lennys Tap]

Obviously.  That doesn't mean he's a guard.  It means he has basketball skills that he can use when he has to.

Don't use the outlier to project his game.  The outlier is simply the outlier.

It's only an outlier because Buzz hasn't allowed it, not because Davante doesn't have the skills. In the past Buzz has given his seniors some leeway in showcasing their talent. Unlike ATL, I won't be surprised if Davante takes a 3 in a "real game". I won't even be surprised if it becomes part of the normal game plan. He's that talented, IMO.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It's only an outlier because Buzz hasn't allowed it, not because Davante doesn't have the skills. In the past Buzz has given his seniors some leeway in showcasing their talent. Unlike ATL, I won't be surprised if Davante takes a 3 in a "real game". I won't even be surprised if it becomes part of the normal game plan. He's that talented, IMO.

I'll put the over/under on 3pt attempts this season at 10.

I'm taking the under.

And, I don't say this because I think DG can't do it, I say it because Buzz is going to want DG running to get into the post and see if he can get position early in a possession. I don't think they are going to have DG shooting trailing 3's. That's Jamil and Steve's area.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think you'll see DG take a *lot* more free-throw length shots, from the elbow, maybe from the corners, especially in Big East play. He will probably be our opponent's #1 defensive priority, and they will try to make life difficult for his play at the basket. If he can step out to the elbow and drain it regularly (as he did in one of the Syracuse games last year I believe), then he will be harder to stop. But even that mid-range shot, which I think everyone is pretty comfortable with him taking, was relatively rare last year. Let's see him do that regularly before we start asking him to take 3's in normal game situations.

If DG can shoot a reverse pivot baseline jumper, it will really complete his post game, and he'll be really tough to double team.

[Lennys Tap]

If DG can shoot a reverse pivot baseline jumper, it will really complete his post game, and he'll be really tough to double team.

Jumper? Davante doesn't do jumpers?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Jumper? Davante doesn't do jumpers?

HA.

Let's call it a "jumper".

[willie warrior]

If DG can shoot a reverse pivot baseline jumper, it will really complete his post game, and he'll be really tough to double team.

Don't forget the Jabbar Sky Hook that he is developing.

[bilsu]

I'll put the over/under on 3pt attempts this season at 10.

I'm taking the under.

And, I don't say this because I think DG can't do it, I say it because Buzz is going to want DG running to get into the post and see if he can get position early in a possession. I don't think they are going to have DG shooting trailing 3's. That's Jamil and Steve's area.

He will shoot a minium of 30.

[ATL MU Warrior]

It's only an outlier because Buzz hasn't allowed it, not because Davante doesn't have the skills. In the past Buzz has given his seniors some leeway in showcasing their talent. Unlike ATL, I won't be surprised if Davante takes a 3 in a "real game". I won't even be surprised if it becomes part of the normal game plan. He's that talented, IMO.

This is not a knock against DG as I think he could probably make them at a decent clip if he took them.

But in my opinion one of the worst things that could happen to this team is for DG to make a few 3 pointers.  This team doesn't want or need DG hitting a few outside shots and then all the sudden thinking that's part of his game and floating around out on the perimeter.  We need him banging down low, establishing position for either a post entry pass or to be in position to rebound, and we need him drawing fouls and making free throws.  That's his game, dominating on the inside.

The only three pointer I'd be ok with from DG is of the Damon Key variety at the top of the key trailing the break.  And only in VERY limited quantities...probably in games where the outcome is already decided.

[GGGG]

He will shoot a minium of 30.

Three pointers?

You realize he has shot 6 during his three years here, and the only one he made was in garbage time against Syracuse in the E8, right?

Why are we projecting him to be something he hasn't been previously?

[GGGG]

It's only an outlier because Buzz hasn't allowed it, not because Davante doesn't have the skills. In the past Buzz has given his seniors some leeway in showcasing their talent. Unlike ATL, I won't be surprised if Davante takes a 3 in a "real game". I won't even be surprised if it becomes part of the normal game plan. He's that talented, IMO.

Based on what evidence?

I simply don't buy into the idea that DG has these offensive skills that Buzz wouldn't let him use.  Why wouldn't he?  Why wouldn't he try to help a team that needed outside shooting last year?

[forgetful]

This is not a knock against DG as I think he could probably make them at a decent clip if he took them.

But in my opinion one of the worst things that could happen to this team is for DG to make a few 3 pointers.  This team doesn't want or need DG hitting a few outside shots and then all the sudden thinking that's part of his game and floating around out on the perimeter.  We need him banging down low, establishing position for either a post entry pass or to be in position to rebound, and we need him drawing fouls and making free throws.  That's his game, dominating on the inside.

The only three pointer I'd be ok with from DG is of the Damon Key variety at the top of the key trailing the break.  And only in VERY limited quantities...probably in games where the outcome is already decided.

Absolutely agree.  If DG is out at the 3 pt line that means he is not underneath where he has been a force both at scoring and drawing fouls.  That is where he helps the team the most and where he needs to be.

He has also not proven that he is a 3 pt threat under game conditions.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So with the departure of McKay and the injury to Duane I have a new lineup for the beginning of the season. New predictions on playing time as well:

1: De Wilson 25 mpg, 4.7 ppg, 3.2 apg
2: Johnson 24 mpg, 9.8 ppg
3: Anderson 19 mpg, 6.6 ppg 3.8 rpg
4: J Wilson 30 mpg 14.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg
5. Otule 20 mpg, 6.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg

Bench:
1. Gardner 24 mpg, 14.2 ppg, 5.2 rpg
2. Mayo 22 mpg, 9.1 ppg, 2.7 apg
3. Taylor 18 mpg, 6.2 ppg, 4.1 rpg
4. Thomas 8 mpg, 2.2 ppg
5. Dawson 7 mpg, 1.7 ppg, 1.2 apg
6. Burton 3 mpg, 0.8 ppg

The numbers are complete guesses and speculation. Some will balk at Mayo not starting but I think his role will be similar to Buycks' when we had the micro guards. Mayo will backup both the 1 and the 2. I think this gives us a solid 8 man rotation with three players on the bench who have talent to play bigger minutes if we need them.

Only 15 days, 9 hours, 11 minutes, and 7 seconds until the season tips off...

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

So with the departure of McKay and the injury to Duane I have a new lineup for the beginning of the season. New predictions on playing time as well:

1: De Wilson 25 mpg, 4.7 ppg, 3.2 apg
2: Johnson 24 mpg, 9.8 ppg
3: Anderson 19 mpg, 6.6 ppg 3.8 rpg
4: J Wilson 30 mpg 14.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg
5. Otule 20 mpg, 6.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg

Bench:
1. Gardner 24 mpg, 14.2 ppg, 5.2 rpg
2. Mayo 22 mpg, 9.1 ppg, 2.7 apg
3. Taylor 18 mpg, 6.2 ppg, 4.1 rpg
4. Thomas 8 mpg, 2.2 ppg
5. Dawson 7 mpg, 1.7 ppg, 1.2 apg
6. Burton 3 mpg, 0.8 ppg

The numbers are complete guesses and speculation. Some will balk at Mayo not starting but I think his role will be similar to Buycks' when we had the micro guards. Mayo will backup both the 1 and the 2. I think this gives us a solid 8 man rotation with three players on the bench who have talent to play bigger minutes if we need them.

Only 15 days, 9 hours, 11 minutes, and 7 seconds until the season tips off...

Really doubt Jamil plays the 4 this year. With Duane out I really think Buzz takes advantage of the size and puts Steve at the 4, Jamil at the 3 and Juan at the 2.