Paul White (PF) removes Marquette from his list

[moomoo]

Just one big for Christmas. That's all we need.

[BCHoopster]

That shipped sail the day Malek Harris committed, I was never sold on him, very skinny like McKay, need some beef.

[MuMark]

He is not a "big" if you view a big as being a replacement for Gardner/Otule and MU stopped recruiting him a long time ago


If you are going to bitch at least be accurate

[BCHoopster]

He has 2 bigs coming to visit in the next few months, probably will get one, hold one for spring as you never know what will happen.  The team he has this year might be his best
and deepest team so far, some big might want to come in and start. MU makes a deep run in the tournament, kids will see that.  If not, a Juco big might be out there.

[moomoo]

He is not a "big" if you view a big as being a replacement for Gardner/Otule and MU stopped recruiting him a long time ago


If you are going to bitch at least be accurate

Easy, Marco. Chill on the tough talk.

Chances are he will add at least 10 pound by his freshman year of college, so I would then consider him a big. And I wasn't "bitching", just stating that he officially took us off his list, and I would like one big in the 2014.

I had no idea we gave up recruiting a 4 star from Chicago. Thanks for the info.

[moomoo]

He has 2 bigs coming to visit in the next few months, probably will get one, hold one for spring as you never know what will happen.  The team he has this year might be his best
and deepest team so far, some big might want to come in and start. MU makes a deep run in the tournament, kids will see that.  If not, a Juco big might be out there.

Thanks hoopster. Do you know which bigs are coming to visit?

[🏀]

Easy, Marco. Chill on the tough talk.

Chances are he will add at least 10 pound by his freshman year of college, so I would then consider him a big. And I wasn't "bitching", just stating that he officially took us off his list, and I would like one big in the 2014.

I had no idea we gave up recruiting a 4 star from Chicago. Thanks for the info.

Paul White's game will not be a 'big' player. He's got some long range game and shys away from being physical under the basket, and is slow laterally.

There's really no need for him after Harris committed.

[MuMark]

Ben Lammers and Tory Miller....

Thanks hoopster. Do you know which bigs are coming to visit?

[GGGG]

I had no idea we gave up recruiting a 4 star from Chicago. Thanks for the info.

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but we stopped following White awhile ago.

[moomoo]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but we stopped following White awhile ago.

Was not being sarcastic. I really didn't know and was thankful for the info.

[moomoo]

Ben Lammers and Tory Miller....

Marco, Ben Lammers is one inch taller and five pounds heavier than Paul White. I assume their games are completely different, with Ben being more defensive minded, hence being a true "big"?

[MuMark]

That is correct....Lammers a low post center who can block shots....White is a small forward type

Marco, Ben Lammers is one inch taller and five pounds heavier than Paul White. I assume their games are completely different, with Ben being more defensive minded, hence being a true "big"?

[willie warrior]

Paul White's game will not be a 'big' player. He's got some long range game and shys away from being physical under the basket, and is slow laterally.

There's really no need for him after Harris committed.

Hmmmmm....Typical. After the guy writes us off, we start dissing him and offer up that we really do not need him, etc.

[GGGG]

Hmmmmm....Typical. After the guy writes us off, we start dissing him and offer up that we really do not need him, etc.

willie, you can believe it or not....MU stopped following White awhile ago for many of the reasons that PTM said.  They were much more interested in Harris.

[willie warrior]

willie, you can believe it or not....MU stopped following White awhile ago for many of the reasons that PTM said.  They were much more interested in Harris.

Yeah, we probably realized that we needed to pursue some more Guards.

[Dawson Rental]

Yeah, we probably realized that we needed to pursue some more Guards.

No, Buzz filled the spot on the roster now taken by Jamil Wilson with a 6'7" 200 lb. combo forward named Malik Harris, instead of another HS forward named Paul White.

[MattyWarrior]

I'd much rather have Malek Harris, he really wants to be here and is a MU type of player,All in!

[MuMark]

Man you are an idiot.....

Nobody ever said we didn't want Myles Turner, or Goodluck...or Kevon Looney....

White is a simlar player to Harris and the staff liked Harris better for a number of reasons.....why are you so pissed off about it?

He wasn't the answer as a big anyway which is all you care about....

Sometimes a player passes on a school and sometimes a school passses on a player....is that news to anyone?

Yeah, we probably realized that we needed to pursue some more Guards.

[GGGG]

Man you are an idiot.....

Nobody ever said we didn't want Myles Turner, or Goodluck...or Kevon Looney....

White is a simlar player to Harris and the staff liked Harris better for a number of reasons.....why are you so pissed of about it?

He wasn't the answer as a big anyway which is all you care about....

Sometimes a player passes on a school and sometimes a school passses on a player....is that news to anyone?

Cmon....you should know by now that good coaches only look at height, weight and recruiting rankings, and never bother actually looking at the players.

But seriously, I have no idea why willie is upset about this. 

[Galway Eagle]

What is with all the insults being tossed around? We're all pulling for the same team (well outside of the Gtown and creighton guys who post on here) no need to alienate anybody with throwing insult around. 

[brewcity77]

Paul White's game will not be a 'big' player. He's got some long range game and shys away from being physical under the basket, and is slow laterally.

This sums up well why Marquette pursued Harris over White. Just because the recruiting rankings like White better doesn't mean Buzz and the staff agree with those outlets. By the same token, the staff is higher on the guys they are currently after than some others that are more highly rated. Star ratings are only a guideline from guys that are not professional coaches.

If people like willie want to put their faith in guys like Dave Telep, Evan Daniels, and Alex Kline, so be it. I have more trust in guys like Buzz Williams, Brad Autry, and Isaac Chew.

[Dawson Rental]

This sums up well why Marquette pursued Harris over White. Just because the recruiting rankings like White better doesn't mean Buzz and the staff agree with those outlets. By the same token, the staff is higher on the guys they are currently after than some others that are more highly rated. Star ratings are only a guideline from guys that are not professional coaches.

If people like willie want to put their faith in guys like Dave Telep, Evan Daniels, and Alex Kline, so be it. I have more trust in guys like Buzz Williams, Brad Autry, and Isaac Chew.

Great news, MU is now considered the leader for a 6'9" 230 lb. big man from Serbia.  He should be in for a visit in late September.  His name is Ivan Renko.

[brewcity77]

Great news, MU is now considered the leader for a 6'9" 230 lb. big man from Serbia.  He should be in for a visit in late September.  His name is Ivan Renko.

I thought he already committed to IU.

[mileskishnish72]

Nah, Renko's like White - he wants to be a 3.

[damuts222]

I thought he already committed to IU.

That ship sailed he committed to Indiana 20 years ago.

[willie warrior]

Cmon....you should know by now that good coaches only look at height, weight and recruiting rankings, and never bother actually looking at the players.

But seriously, I have no idea why willie is upset about this. 

Who said I was upset? Just said it was typical the reaction--we start dissing the kid and trashing that we did not need him anyway. I agree, we need more guards.

[leever]

Great news, MU is now considered the leader for a 6'9" 230 lb. big man from Serbia.  He should be in for a visit in late September.  His name is Ivan Renko.

I think you made an error.  Renko is only 6'8", so he's not a big!  Plus, I think he may have used up his eligibility.

[GGGG]

Who said I was upset? Just said it was typical the reaction--we start dissing the kid and trashing that we did not need him anyway. I agree, we need more guards.

No one is dissing the kid.  They are giving basketball-related reasons why MU isn't interested.

[willie warrior]

No one is dissing the kid.  They are giving basketball-related reasons why MU isn't interested.

Lets see: "shys away from being physical" "slow laterally", "wasn't the answer as a big anyway": implying he is not an MU type of player, etc. Yep. you are right.

[GGGG]

Lets see: "shys away from being physical" "slow laterally", "wasn't the answer as a big anyway": implying he is not an MU type of player, etc. Yep. you are right.

The first two statements describe his game in the eyes of some people here.  The last one negates a common mis-perception that he plays like a "big."

I mean no offense, but if that is a "dis" then why even have a board to discuss these things?

[LAZER]

I don't know if I'm sold on Marquete losing interest in White given the reports that came out in the spring about Marquette going hardest after White.

[4everwarriors]

I thought he already committed to IU.

Nah, Crean's got his hands wrapped around on that Russian dude, Ivan Jacinoff.

[GGGG]

I don't know if I'm sold on Marquete losing interest in White given the reports that came out in the spring about Marquette going hardest after White.

Those reports were not entirely accurate.  Trust me...Harris is the guy Buzz wanted and zeroed in on.

[Lennys Tap]

The first two statements describe his game in the eyes of some people here.  The last one negates a common mis-perception that he plays like a "big."

I mean no offense, but if that is a "dis" then why even have a board to discuss these things?

I have no idea whether we cooled on White, he cooled on us or some combination of both. I have, however, seen him play several times and at this point he plays almost exclusively on the perimeter. Maybe I caught him on off nights but I was underwhelmed.

For some reason Willie thinks that ripping the guys we sign and praising the ones we don't = objectivity. If we sucked under Buzz, I'd say his viewpoint has merit. We don't and it doesn't.

[willie warrior]

Never said that we should rip the guys we sign. We also should not rip the guys that pass on us--that is unless they go to UW or No Dick.

I agree, we should continue to focus on guards, and hope that every 10 years we land an unknown like Ox. No reason to go after bigs anyway.

[BCHoopster]

Do you think the coaches are stupid, they know what they need?  It just is not easy to get those type of players.  It might be easier in spring as somebody will want to start, MU
has the spot.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree, we should continue to focus on guards, and hope that every 10 years we land an unknown like Ox. No reason to go after bigs anyway.

Are you really that unhappy about Buzz's recruiting and results, or is this just a new 'bit' you have developed?

[TallTitan34]

nm

[willie warrior]

Are you really that unhappy about Buzz's recruiting and results, or is this just a new 'bit' you have developed?

Don't know about your psychoanalytic skills, or any new bit you are searching for--just now believe that it is time to imbibe of all the kool aid we have here.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Don't know about your psychoanalytic skills, or any new bit you are searching for--just now believe that it is time to imbibe of all the kool aid we have here.

Just because people aren't as upset as you are about Buzz's recruiting doesn't mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid".

That's silly. You know that.

[brandx]

Never said that we should rip the guys we sign. We also should not rip the guys that pass on us--that is unless they go to UW or No Dick.

I agree, we should continue to focus on guards, and hope that every 10 years we land an unknown like Ox. No reason to go after bigs anyway.

6'11", 6'9", 6'8", 6'8".

My God, we'll be starting 5 guards this year!

[GGGG]

Just because people aren't as upset as you are about Buzz's recruiting doesn't mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid".

That's silly.

Yes.

You know that.

Well...

[avid1010]

Don't know about your psychoanalytic skills, or any new bit you are searching for--just now believe that it is time to imbibe of all the kool aid we have here.

willie demands buzz sign a 5 star big now...if he doesn't (well he hasn't really defined that part yet)...

i get not being happy with the average talent of big men MU has got to commit, but there are so many variables that i think the only ultimate evaluation of recruiting is wins and losses.  buzz is fine and i'm sure he's working as hard or harder than anyone else to get better.  we could go the UW route, then willie would demand we recruit better guards or switchables...

[Lennys Tap]

The team Buzz inherited had a 6'8" center who couldn't throw a ball in the ocean if he was standing on the shoreline. The rest of the lineup was 6'5", 6'5", 6'1", 5'11". Year 2 our center was a 6'5" small forward and our guards went 5'11" 165 and 5'8" 150. We've come a long (and tall and wide) way since.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have no idea whether we cooled on White, he cooled on us or some combination of both. I have, however, seen him play several times and at this point he plays almost exclusively on the perimeter. Maybe I caught him on off nights but I was underwhelmed.

For some reason Willie thinks that ripping the guys we sign and praising the ones we don't = objectivity. If we sucked under Buzz, I'd say his viewpoint has merit. We don't and it doesn't.

I think what WW is pointing out is what all fans tend to do.  We sign a kid and "he's a great get"..."he'll help the team"..."really good in the block", blah blah blah.  We lose a kid, and a bunch of people saying "damn, he would have been great here".  There are exceptions, especially for kids that are very highly regarded....no doubt.

Some examples can be found when we we signed Durley, Roseboro, etc where he was the cat's meow until they weren't.  I don't find it abnormal, it's part of a fan psyche.  A guy leaves for free agency from his favorite team "we don't need him anyway"..."not worth the cost"....etc.  Same team signs another player, sometimes of lesser value at similar cost and you would think its the greatest move ever made by a GM.  Is what it is...fans being fans....emotions over intelligence.

[Lennys Tap]

I think what WW is pointing out is what all fans tend to do.  We sign a kid and "he's a great get"..."he'll help the team"..."really good in the block", blah blah blah.  We lose a kid, and a bunch of people saying "damn, he would have been great here".  There are exceptions, especially for kids that are very highly regarded....no doubt.

Some examples can be found when we we signed Durley, Roseboro, etc where he was the cat's meow until they weren't.  I don't find it abnormal, it's part of a fan psyche.  A guy leaves for free agency from his favorite team "we don't need him anyway"..."not worth the cost"....etc.  Same team signs another player, sometimes of lesser value at similar cost and you would think its the greatest move ever made by a GM.  Is what it is...fans being fans....emotions over intelligence.

Three kind of fans - kool aid drinkers, realists and contrarians. When I pointed out an obvious red flags on Durley (lots of DNPs as a high school senior, not much production, etc) I took a lot of grief from the kool aiders. Willie's worse, though. The idea that anything less than a 5 star center is unacceptable at MU is insane, but saying wacky stuff is one way to get attention, I guess.

[MU82]

The team Buzz inherited had a 6'8" center who couldn't throw a ball in the ocean if he was standing on the shoreline. The rest of the lineup was 6'5", 6'5", 6'1", 5'11". Year 2 our center was a 6'5" small forward and our guards went 5'11" 165 and 5'8" 150. We've come a long (and tall and wide) way since.

But wait ... according to a source* the previous coach left Buzz a pat team!

(*TC)

[willie warrior]

Three kind of fans - kool aid drinkers, realists and contrarians. When I pointed out an obvious red flags on Durley (lots of DNPs as a high school senior, not much production, etc) I took a lot of grief from the kool aiders. Willie's worse, though. The idea that anything less than a 5 star center is unacceptable at MU is insane, but saying wacky stuff is one way to get attention, I guess.

Yeah lenny, except I never said that anything less than a 5 star center is unacceptable--but then you never do get it right. What I have said is that making excuses for never doing it is unacceptable, and never getting one is also unacceptable. You sure can be your judge as to what is insane. When somebody says something you do not agree with, then it is insane. Must be a lot of insanity in your world. Have a great day in that life.

[tower912]

"Unacceptable".    And what, pray tell, will the consequences be from your perspective if MU continues down this road?    Sweet 16's and Elite 8's without an acceptable big?   Ye Gods, man, Buzz continues to try to land bigs.    While continuing to win with what he has.  What more do you want?

[GGGG]

I think what WW is pointing out is what all fans tend to do.  We sign a kid and "he's a great get"..."he'll help the team"..."really good in the block", blah blah blah.  We lose a kid, and a bunch of people saying "damn, he would have been great here".  There are exceptions, especially for kids that are very highly regarded....no doubt.

Except we didn't lose him.  We stopped recruiting him because we preferred someone else.  That is where willie's (and your) statement falls apart.

[tower912]

Except we didn't lose him.  We stopped recruiting him because we preferred someone else.  That is where willie's (and your) statement falls apart.

 

Did Buzz cool on him?

[Nukem2]

 

Did Buzz cool on him?

No, the Malek Harris committment filled MUs need

[swoopem]

Yeah lenny, except I never said that anything less than a 5 star center is unacceptable--but then you never do get it right. What I have said is that making excuses for never doing it is unacceptable, and never getting one is also unacceptable. You sure can be your judge as to what is insane. When somebody says something you do not agree with, then it is insane. Must be a lot of insanity in your world. Have a great day in that life.

Well looks like you said it now

[brewcity77]

Did Buzz cool on him?

It may sound a bit funny, but pretty sure the answer is yes. But he cooled on him months ago. White was on the back burner as the staff started to focus on Harris, and once Harris committed, White was a complete non-factor. I'd estimate MU changed course on White at least 3-4 months ago.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I agree, we should continue to focus on guards, and hope that every 10 years we land an unknown like Ox. No reason to go after bigs anyway.

Maybe time for another break?  Or at least a nice nap? I mean, it's pretty hard to be unhappy with Buzz's results even without bringing in the top ranked center every year.

[tower912]

Maybe time for another break?  Or at least a nice nap? I mean, it's pretty hard to be unhappy with Buzz's results even without bringing in the top ranked center every year.

Nah.  His schtick, though one note, is entertaining.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yeah lenny, except I never said that anything less than a 5 star center is unacceptable--but then you never do get it right. What I have said is that making excuses for never doing it is unacceptable, and never getting one is also unacceptable. You sure can be your judge as to what is insane. When somebody says something you do not agree with, then it is insane. Must be a lot of insanity in your world. Have a great day in that life.

Willie,

I really think everybody here agrees that MU needs to recruit talented players at EVERY position, including center.

The divide comes when you continually use the word "unacceptable". Most people use that term when there is a consequence to the "unaccepted" behavior or item ( i.e.: This homework is unacceptable! You fail.).

I can't imagine that you are suggesting Buzz's job security rests upon his ability to recruit a 5-star center. That seems crazy given the performance MU has had the past handful of years.

Maybe a slight change in terminology to clarify your position would help?

Maybe "less than ideal", "subpar", or "suboptimal" instead of "UNACCEPTABLE".

[bilsu]

 

Did Buzz cool on him?

A couple of months ago it was posted that MU was likely to lose out to Arizona. Now neither Arizona or MU is in his fianl 6, which indicates he either changed what he wants or he is being replaced by other recruits.

[willie warrior]

Willie,

I really think everybody here agrees that MU needs to recruit talented players at EVERY position, including center.

The divide comes when you continually use the word "unacceptable". Most people use that term when there is a consequence to the "unaccepted" behavior or item ( i.e.: This homework is unacceptable! You fail.).

I can't imagine that you are suggesting Buzz's job security rests upon his ability to recruit a 5-star center. That seems crazy given the performance MU has had the past handful of years.

Maybe a slight change in terminology to clarify your position would help?

Maybe "less than ideal", "subpar", or "suboptimal" instead of "UNACCEPTABLE".

Yeah, you are right. Our inability to land a quality big every 10 years or so is "less than ideal". And the excuses that many offer for this inability really are not unacceptable. They are reasons. Saying both of those does make one feel a great deal better. After all, it is only college BB and not really important, like Fantasy Football. And besides MU has always been known as a Guard school, anyway. That is where we need to continue our focus, and then we can get back to the FF.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yeah, you are right. Our inability to land a quality big every 10 years or so is "less than ideal". And the excuses that many offer for this inability really are not unacceptable. They are reasons. Saying both of those does make one feel a great deal better. After all, it is only college BB and not really important, like Fantasy Football. And besides MU has always been known as a Guard school, anyway. That is where we need to continue our focus, and then we can get back to the FF.

Perfect.

Now everybody can move on.

[leever]

Perfect.

Now everybody can move on.

Yes, but does Crean still suck?

And when do we drop the Golden Chicken and get Warriors back?