Whatever happened to Hiroshima?

[DienerTime34]

I remember at this time last year a bomb was supposed to drop on the program. Did the retro-active grading thing ever happen? Or was it the Monarch situation people were referring to?

[EnderWiggen]

Wasn't that supposed to be the Mayo academic situation?  I'm still waiting for Nagasaki.

[brewcity77]

I recall much of it referred to grades of incoming recruits, specifically JUCOs. We didn't have a JUCO on the roster last year and the main reason McKay was able to qualify for the new standards was because he committed a year early, which allowed the MU coaching staff to work with Indian Hills to make sure he would be eligible. Even still, anyone who followed McKay's Twitter feed could see that he was only able to come to Marquette due to tests he had to pass in May. If you follow JUCO recruiting, it's easy to see we are rumored far less frequently with guys than we were in the past. Players like Crowder and Buycks would never be accepted into Marquette now.

[Jay Bee]

Players like Crowder and Buycks would never be accepted into Marquette now.

Oh?

[Pakuni]

Hmmm.
I have no real desire to go back and re-read the Hiroshima threads, but I don't recall the raising of JUCO admissions standards being among the major tenents of the Hiroshima hysteria. In fact, I don't remember it mentioned at all. At most, there was some hyperventilating over Buzz being barred from recruiting any JUCOs at all ... a claim pretty much proven wrong when Jameel McKay committed a few weeks later.

Perhaps we're hearing less about Buzz recruiting JUCOs because needs to dip into those ranks less frequently given the high school talent he's landing.

The fact is, pretty much none of the Hiroshima insanity has, or ever was going to, become reality.

[GGGG]

The "Hiroshima Hysteria" was the raising of the GPA standards for continuing athletes, and not giving a grace period for current athletes.  It was thought that this would trap a number of MU's players.  In reality it didn't trap any of them.

[Pakuni]

The "Hiroshima Hysteria" was the raising of the GPA standards for continuing athletes, and not giving a grace period for current athletes.  It was thought that this would trap a number of MU's players.  In reality it didn't trap any of them.

There was way more to it that that.
There was Buzz leaving.
There was Buzz leaving at the end of the 2013 season (one poster claimed there was a "handshake deal" to that effect).
There was downsizing the program to SLU status.
There was a ban on JUCO recruiting.
There was the forced suspension/expulsion of Todd Mayo.
Go back and read the threads, if you must.

[GGGG]

It grew into that, but "Hiroshima" was a word specifically used by muguru to describe what would happen to Scoop once they found out about the change in academic policy.

I can't find the original post, but it is referenced in this thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32362.0

[Goose]

Pakuni

Actually the Hiroshima was started by a poster referring to academic standards being changed and the effect that would have on program. This poster was the "handshake" guy and it had nothing to do with Hiroshima post. I never bought into the academic standard theory.

[brewcity77]

There was way more to it that that.
There was Buzz leaving.
There was Buzz leaving at the end of the 2013 season (one poster claimed there was a "handshake deal" to that effect).

There was a lot about Buzz leaving. So far that's been unfounded, definitely the "handshake deal". However it is still out there that Buzz isn't as happy as he was when Cottingham and Wild were in charge. I'm not saying Buzz is on the verge of leaving or anything of the sort, but I think it would be a lot less of a surprise today than it would have been 2-3 years ago.

There was downsizing the program to SLU status.

Just personally, that always seemed like a stretch.

There was a ban on JUCO recruiting.

You're glossing over this a bit. It was raising recruiting standards to make it very difficult to bring in JUCOs as well as limiting the high school kids we could go after. And if you've followed McKay's recruitment and Twitter feed, you'd realize at least from a JUCO perspective this is factual. The reason McKay is going to Marquette is because we got a commitment so early. Marquette was able to direct him in terms of which classes he had to take and pass. As I said earlier, guys like Crowder and Buycks that arrived not on track to graduate wouldn't be accepted at Marquette today. JUCO basketball transfers will only be brought in if their academics put them on track to earn a degree in four years. With McKay that is the case.

I don't know if this has affected our recruiting of high school kids. It seems Buzz has been able to be just as aggressive with HS players, but the focus has definitely turned more toward bringing in high school and graduate student transfers than JUCOs. I don't believe for a second that Buzz would turn away from the JUCO ranks simply because he is getting more high school kids. Buzz seems to want guys that are ready to contribute from day one, and JUCOs are more often able to do just that.

There was the forced suspension/expulsion of Todd Mayo.

The comments from both camps last year sure made it sound like there was a decent chance Mayo wouldn't be back. I can't speculate as to all the whys or wherefores, but the combination of behavior, grades, and commitment to the program all seem to have been questioned. Not sure if it was just Buzz doing the questioning or if it was partially administrative as well.

Go back and read the threads, if you must.

God no...this is more than enough reliving of that than I need 

[The Lens]

I know a few people who work with the program and others who are sizable boosters who were convinced 2013 was Buzz's last year.  Some were surprised he came back after 2012.  From everything I gathered there was a pretty good size adjustment period after Fr. Wild left.  The AD gets all the blame and ridicule but it starts at the top.

IMO, all parties realized they're better off with each other than without.

I also believe you'll continue to hear murmurs because that's how Buzz likes it, us against them, backs to the wall, nobody believes in us.  

Look it wasn't always pretty with Al but it ended up looking good.  Same deal here.

[brewcity77]

Pakuni is definitely right about the overall raising of academic standards, and one of the big things was that the changes would be retroactive to force academic requirements on players based on past academics that they would not be able to fix (basically no grandfathering in).

That didn't happen, but I do believe Marquette has raised their academic standards for athletes so they are higher than the NCAA requires. Basically, what was predicted to happen did come to pass, but not in such a way that it screwed over existent MU players.

[GGGG]

Pakuni is definitely right about the overall raising of academic standards, and one of the big things was that the changes would be retroactive to force academic requirements on players based on past academics that they would not be able to fix (basically no grandfathering in).

That didn't happen, but I do believe Marquette has raised their academic standards for athletes so they are higher than the NCAA requires. Basically, what was predicted to happen did come to pass, but not in such a way that it screwed over existent MU players.

As I recall, the NCAA requires a 1.8 GPA after freshman year, 1.9 after sophomore year and 2.0 after junior.

MU changed theirs to make it 2.0 across the board.

And brew is right, it was changed but did not impact anyone.  Todd's problems last year arose after he started the fall semester.

[Goose]

Lens

While my "handshake" agreement obviously proved to be incorrect, I do agree on some of the big boosters surprised Buzz is back. At this point I am just very happy that he is back and hopefully on to bigger things for the program.

[bilsu]

I recall much of it referred to grades of incoming recruits, specifically JUCOs. We didn't have a JUCO on the roster last year and the main reason McKay was able to qualify for the new standards was because he committed a year early, which allowed the MU coaching staff to work with Indian Hills to make sure he would be eligible. Even still, anyone who followed McKay's Twitter feed could see that he was only able to come to Marquette due to tests he had to pass in May. If you follow JUCO recruiting, it's easy to see we are rumored far less frequently with guys than we were in the past. Players like Crowder and Buycks would never be accepted into Marquette now.

I do not mean to nit pick, but if you do not pass your finals whether you are in junior college or high school you probably do not graduate. So whether there was a rule change or not McKay ( along with Wilson, Burton, Dawson and JJJ) needed to pass their tests in May.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Lens

While my "handshake" agreement obviously proved to be incorrect, I do agree on some of the big boosters surprised Buzz is back. At this point I am just very happy that he is back and hopefully on to bigger things for the program.

It is my understanding that Fr. Pilarz is not the sports fan that some have made him out to be and that he considers Buzz Williams to be a bit of a "handful" for the university. I don't know what that will ultimately mean, but Larry Williams has to ultimately answer to the president.

My own opinion is that, should Buzz be somehow forced out, Pilarz will have more than a "handful" of angry alums.

[bilsu]

It is my understanding that Fr. Pilarz is not the sports fan that some have made him out to be and that he considers Buzz Williams to be a bit of a "handful" for the university. I don't know what that will ultimately mean, but Larry Williams has to ultimately answer to the president.

My own opinion is that, should Buzz be somehow forced out, Pilarz will have more than a "handful" of angry alums.

No actual knowledge, but I suspect (hope) with the new conference that both the President and the AD realize how much we need Buzz.

[GOO]

No actual knowledge, but I suspect (hope) with the new conference that both the President and the AD realize how much we need Buzz.

If they don't, then the University has bigger problems.  The University isn't the basketball team, of course, but it is an important part of it.  Buzz isn't the basketball program, but he is a big part of it.  Not realizing this is like the San Diego Zoo CEO getting rid of the panda's because they require extra TLC.

Buzz is on a roll, and I hope that the powers that be at MU now realize what he means to the University and I hope that Buzz understands what he and his teams mean to the University.  Buzz's persona and underdog ways, really fit in with the new conference.  I think he can use it to his advantage.  I hope Fox Sports does some behind the scene's stuff with the teams; preseason camp stuff, etc. 

[MUfan12]

It is my understanding that Fr. Pilarz is not the sports fan that some have made him out to be and that he considers Buzz Williams to be a bit of a "handful" for the university. I don't know what that will ultimately mean, but Larry Williams has to ultimately answer to the president.

Pilarz is most comfortable behind the scenes, and I'm not sure he's ultimately a long-term fit. If his grand academic vision is gonna be realized, MU needs to raise some scratch. A socially uncomfortable president doesn't help.

[brewcity77]

I do not mean to nit pick, but if you do not pass your finals whether you are in junior college or high school you probably do not graduate.

All very true, but in the past JUCO players merely had to qualify. Now they have to be on track to graduate. The work McKay had to do was far more than Buzz's previous JUCO recruits. Had he picked his own classes and not committed until this summer, McKay wouldn't have been able to come to Marquette.

In the next few seasons, I expect graduate student transfers to replace the roles JUCOs played under Buzz of providing instant impact and experience. Players like McKay will become less common and players like Lockett more common.

[Goose]

PRN

Agreed Fr. P probably considers Buzz a handful. Time will tell.

[Pakuni]

All very true, but in the past JUCO players merely had to qualify. Now they have to be on track to graduate. The work McKay had to do was far more than Buzz's previous JUCO recruits. Had he picked his own classes and not committed until this summer, McKay wouldn't have been able to come to Marquette.

That's probably true, but I'd suggest that has far more to do with APR, and the consequences of falling behind on that measure, than any effort by the administration to rein in Buzz or limit his recruiting.

[real chili 83]

We had Hiroshima this year in the Cohen thread.

Goose, you gotta think the supposed agreement with Buzz and the administration was nothing more than a rumor.  A rumor that was talked about so much, it was perceived as fact.

[Newsdreams]

The best part of that topic was the Enola Gay photo 

[MUfan12]

That's probably true, but I'd suggest that has far more to do with APR, and the consequences of falling behind on that measure, than any effort by the administration to rein in Buzz or limit his recruiting.

The fact that some of the guys have left school to train for the draft hasn't sat well either.