Do you really need 13 scholarship players?

[BCHoopster]

As programs get stronger and stronger do you really need to go that deep.  I am pretty sure that Duke, NC, Syracuse and others do not as they are able to bring in players that are
ready to play.  MU has 13 players this year that can play which means that 4-5 kids are not going to be thrilled.  In saying that, does Buzz really need to recruit 2 more kids next year,
one big would be great.

I have not been to the pro-am so who are the 5 that may not see a lot of action:

Thomas
Dawson
Johnson
Der.  Wilson
Burton

Players:

Gardner
Otule
Wilson
Wilson
Taylor (if healthy)
Mayo
Anderson
McKay

How is my assessment?

Secondly, to even the classes out there is there a JC kid available that MU is looking at?

[goldeneagle91114]

I think it's important to go out and get the best talent you can every year. If you have a ton of talent competing for limited minutes it will bring the best out in every player. Practices become more intense and it better prepares the overall team for any challenges that my come up through the year.

Plus there is always an injury that leaves an unexpected hole to be filled.

[BCHoopster]

I understand the injury part, part of the game, but how happy are the back 4 or 5 players, can cause issues, freshman want to play right away now, if Johnson, Dawson and Burton do
not get a lot of minutes then you are back looking at transfers again.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Why wouldn't Derrick Wilson see "a ton of action?"  He was the back up PG last year and saw 13 mpg.  Even if Duane Wilson shows he can hack it as a freshman, I can't see how Derrick's numbers actually decrease.

I understand the injury part, part of the game, but how happy are the back 4 or 5 players, can cause issues, freshman want to play right away now, if Johnson, Dawson and Burton do
not get a lot of minutes then you are back looking at transfers again.

OK.  Then they transfer.  That's not necessarily a problem.  But I think you are going to see a couple of the freshman step up.  Who that is we will figure out shortly.

[BCHoopster]

Derrick will get limited minutes, maybe 8-10 if lucky.  I do not see it, Duane Wilson is to good not to get 25-30 minutes a game.  You have to figure that Dawson will get 3-5 minutes
as well.  There are as usual a lot cupcake teams played early in the season that Buzz will be generous with PT time, to see what he has once the regular season begins I see the bench
getting smaller and smaller PT time.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Derrick will get limited minutes, maybe 8-10 if lucky.  I do not see it, Duane Wilson is to good not to get 25-30 minutes a game.  You have to figure that Dawson will get 3-5 minutes
as well.  There are as usual a lot cupcake teams played early in the season that Buzz will be generous with PT time, to see what he has once the regular season begins I see the bench
getting smaller and smaller PT time.

Derrick Wilson averaged 13 mpg last year and reached double digits in 25 of MU's games (including every NCAA tournament game) backing up a senior PG.  Again, I can't see how his minutes decrease 3-5 mpg at the expense of two incoming freshman who have never played a minute of college basketball.

[tower912]

Injuries happen, poor decisions by young people happen.    13 can become 9 in a big hurry with a little bad luck.   It will sort itself out.   It always does.  Get as many talented, motivated players as you can.  

[MarquetteDano]

Nearly every rule change that is made recently is done so in favor of large institutions and not the little guy.  If scholarship players were reduced to 12 (or less) this would favor smaller schools.

Thus you can be rest assured this will NOT happen.

[ATL MU Warrior]

- practice
- injuries
- academics
- behavior
- practice
- 40 minutes of hell
- practice
- practice
- early entry to NBA
- practice
- decoys

[BCHoopster]

Derrick Wilson averaged 13 mpg last year and reached double digits in 25 of MU's games (including every NCAA tournament game) backing up a senior PG.  Again, I can't see how his minutes decrease 3-5 mpg at the expense of two incoming freshman who have never played a minute of college basketball.

Junior Cadougan might have been a senior but he was athletically challenged in many games, Derrick is a great defender, does not make a lot of mistakes but he does not create shots for others and can not shot the ball.  I expect Duane Wilson will get more and more minutes as the season goes on.  I hope I am wrong, that will make the team really strong.  I have seen
Duane Wilson enough to realize he is an elite athlete.  I am only concerned with him will be his turnover ratio.  Offensively he is light years ahead of Derrick.  If Derrick gets a lot of minutes
it will be like Otule/Gardner pattern.
i

[wadesworld]

Derrick will get limited minutes, maybe 8-10 if lucky.  I do not see it, Duane Wilson is to good not to get 25-30 minutes a game.  You have to figure that Dawson will get 3-5 minutes
as well.  There are as usual a lot cupcake teams played early in the season that Buzz will be generous with PT time, to see what he has once the regular season begins I see the bench
getting smaller and smaller PT time.

So you think a guy who got 16 and 13 minutes in the first 2 NCAA Tournament game and who Buzz Williams specifically stated Marquette was still alive because of, and a guy who specifically said was a better player than the player starting above him but the other player was a senior, is going to see a decrease in minutes as a junior?  A guy who is our best defender and who NEVER turns the ball over as a point guard is going to see a freshman combo guard who has never played a minute in college take his spot?  I have my doubts on that one.

Keep in mind, Wilson had never played meaningful minutes in college before being thrown into the fire when Cadougan got suspended for the game at Madison his freshman year and he completely slowed down "All American" point guard Jordan Taylor.  The guy is not flashy, he doesn't score a ton of points, but he is tough as nails and plays his roll perfectly.  We don't need our point guard to score 15 points per game.  With Wilson and Gardner being the studs and guys like OTule, Johnson, Burton, Anderson, and Mayo all available to score, plus DuWilson able to play the 2, I'm fairly certain Buzz will play his pure point guard over a freshman combo guard.

[wadesworld]

Junior Cadougan might have been a senior but he was athletically challenged in many games, Derrick is a great defender, does not make a lot of mistakes but he does not create shots for others and can not shot the ball.  I expect Duane Wilson will get more and more minutes as the season goes on.  I hope I am wrong, that will make the team really strong.  I have seen
Duane Wilson enough to realize he is an elite athlete.  I am only concerned with him will be his turnover ratio.  Offensively he is light years ahead of Derrick.  If Derrick gets a lot of minutes
it will be like Otule/Gardner pattern.
i

He is certainly an elite athlete.  But you have seen him play Division 4 WIAA basketball.  There's a bit of a speed/size/strength difference between the players in Division 4 WIAA and Division 1 NCAA.  He will be very good, but he's a freshman.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think the biggest thing about 13 is the need to balance classes to sustain long term success and to balance against losses.  At Kentucky, Duke, UNC, et al they need some one and done backup.  I think the number is about right.

As for minutes, the newcomers are all talented offensively, but defense will determine their playing time.  The freshmen all play defense with their hands right now and not their feet.  That worked in high school but not at this level.

As to DeWilson, Buzz will start defense. Du's minutes will pick up when his defense does. Experience matters with Buzz. Until then, I can even see Mayo swinging to PG (ala Buycks) or Jake/Juan to 2G at times. MU's frontline will get near 120 minutes a game.  McKay will see the most newcomer minutes, but the lineup of Jamil, Taylor, Otule and Gardner with McKay, means that group gets the vast majority of the minutes at the 3-5 spots.  I don't see a three guard lineup getting a lot of minutes like in the past.  

[brewcity77]

Derrick will get limited minutes, maybe 8-10 if lucky.  I do not see it, Duane Wilson is to good not to get 25-30 minutes a game.  You have to figure that Dawson will get 3-5 minutes
as well.  There are as usual a lot cupcake teams played early in the season that Buzz will be generous with PT time, to see what he has once the regular season begins I see the bench
getting smaller and smaller PT time.

I would gladly wager either of those.

[willie warrior]

So you think a guy who got 16 and 13 minutes in the first 2 NCAA Tournament game and who Buzz Williams specifically stated Marquette was still alive because of, and a guy who specifically said was a better player than the player starting above him but the other player was a senior, is going to see a decrease in minutes as a junior?  A guy who is our best defender and who NEVER turns the ball over as a point guard is going to see a freshman combo guard who has never played a minute in college take his spot?  I have my doubts on that one.

Keep in mind, Wilson had never played meaningful minutes in college before being thrown into the fire when Cadougan got suspended for the game at Madison his freshman year and he completely slowed down "All American" point guard Jordan Taylor.  The guy is not flashy, he doesn't score a ton of points, but he is tough as nails and plays his roll perfectly.  We don't need our point guard to score 15 points per game.  With Wilson and Gardner being the studs and guys like OTule, Johnson, Burton, Anderson, and Mayo all available to score, plus DuWilson able to play the 2, I'm fairly certain Buzz will play his pure point guard over a freshman combo guard.

There is no way that De. Wilson was a better player than Cadougan, regardless of what Williams said. If he was, then he would have had more minutes than Cadougan. While Wilson may be a better defender, Cadougan was a better passer, saw the court better, was a better shooter and scorer and better FT shooter.

[wadesworld]

There is no way that De. Wilson was a better player than Cadougan, regardless of what Williams said. If he was, then he would have had more minutes than Cadougan. While Wilson may be a better defender, Cadougan was a better passer, saw the court better, was a better shooter and scorer and better FT shooter.

I agree with you, but I do think Wilson was more consistent.  We knew what we were getting from him every night (really good defense, tough player, and a guy who just didn't turn the ball over).  Cadougan?  Some nights he'd be somewhat of a scorer and get 15 points and 4 assists.  Other nights he'd be more of a distributor and get 8 and 8.  And still other nights he'd go for 2 points, 2 assists, and 10 turnovers (I hated playing Louisville because I knew Cadougan would get absolutely exposed.  Same with Florida).

[real chili 83]

I would gladly wager either of those.

Agreed.

Derrick is captain.  Buzz is loyal to guys like Derrick.

See Cadougan, Junior.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You recruit 13 players because you never know who is going to pan out and who is going to bust. Jamail Jones was our 2nd best prospect in 2010 behind Vander Blue. That same year, we signed Davante Garnder, a 2 star who many thought was a reach at best. Look what happened.

You don't have to hit 13 every season, especially not with talented walk ons like Thomas and Swanson (not saying they get playing time but saying they could step in case with get racked with injuries). But you should always try to fill all 13 spots to maximize your chances on landing your next star.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

You recruit 13 players because you never know who is going to pan out and who is going to bust. Jamail Jones was our 2nd best prospect in 2010 behind Vander Blue. That same year, we signed Davante Garnder, a 2 star who many thought was a reach at best. Look what happened.

You don't have to hit 13 every season, especially not with talented walk ons like Thomas and Swanson (not saying they get playing time but saying they could step in case with get racked with injuries). But you should always try to fill all 13 spots to maximize your chances on landing your next star.

Swanson is no longer on the team.  Left school.

[MU82]

So you think a guy who got 16 and 13 minutes in the first 2 NCAA Tournament game and who Buzz Williams specifically stated Marquette was still alive because of, and a guy who specifically said was a better player than the player starting above him but the other player was a senior, is going to see a decrease in minutes as a junior?  A guy who is our best defender and who NEVER turns the ball over as a point guard is going to see a freshman combo guard who has never played a minute in college take his spot?  I have my doubts on that one.

Keep in mind, Wilson had never played meaningful minutes in college before being thrown into the fire when Cadougan got suspended for the game at Madison his freshman year and he completely slowed down "All American" point guard Jordan Taylor.  The guy is not flashy, he doesn't score a ton of points, but he is tough as nails and plays his roll perfectly.  We don't need our point guard to score 15 points per game.  With Wilson and Gardner being the studs and guys like OTule, Johnson, Burton, Anderson, and Mayo all available to score, plus DuWilson able to play the 2, I'm fairly certain Buzz will play his pure point guard over a freshman combo guard.

I'm hoping Derrick Wilson plays as well as his biggest proponents believe he will.

But let's get one thing straight: Derrick NEVER turns the ball over because he has been content to bring the ball within 30 feet of the perimeter and then make safe passes to guys standing 10 feet from him. He has not shown any ability to penetrate, create for others, create for himself, shoot well enough to keep the defense honest, etc. Maybe he has that in his game and it will come out this season, but I don't think it's outrageous to take a little "we'll see" approach.

And as another poster or two said, if Buzz actually thought Derrick was better than Junior, he would have played Derrick more than he played Junior. Coaches want to win.

Finally, we need a PG who can get the ball to all the scorers you named. And not 30 feet away from the basket. Good PGs can beat their man off the dribble and create scoring opportunities for teammates. Again, with Derrick, "We'll see."

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

But let's get one thing straight: Derrick NEVER turns the ball over because he has been content to bring the ball within 30 feet of the perimeter and then make safe passes to guys standing 10 feet from him. He has not shown any ability to penetrate, create for others, create for himself, shoot well enough to keep the defense honest, etc.

I actually agree with you completely.  I just don't see how his minutes will decrease.

I will also add that I think his defense on Jordan Taylor back in the Kohl Center was good, but his role has been overstated.  Buzz rotated defenders on Taylor...including Blue and Mayo.  Wilson got a lot of the ink because of his role as a substitute but he only played half of that game.

[wadesworld]

I'm hoping Derrick Wilson plays as well as his biggest proponents believe he will.

But let's get one thing straight: Derrick NEVER turns the ball over because he has been content to bring the ball within 30 feet of the perimeter and then make safe passes to guys standing 10 feet from him. He has not shown any ability to penetrate, create for others, create for himself, shoot well enough to keep the defense honest, etc. Maybe he has that in his game and it will come out this season, but I don't think it's outrageous to take a little "we'll see" approach.

And as another poster or two said, if Buzz actually thought Derrick was better than Junior, he would have played Derrick more than he played Junior. Coaches want to win.

Finally, we need a PG who can get the ball to all the scorers you named. And not 30 feet away from the basket. Good PGs can beat their man off the dribble and create scoring opportunities for teammates. Again, with Derrick, "We'll see."

You aren't wrong in anything you said.  In my opinion, Derrick did what Buzz wanted/asked him to do.  Derrick's role was to play really good defense.  If there was not a dead ball in between him playing good defense and us getting the ball back, his job was to get the ball into our front court without turning it over and then get it to someone who could create shots for himself or for his teammates better (usually that was Vander when Cadougan was out).  This year Derrick's role will be different offensively and he will be asked to run the team more.  I have confidence he will be able to do it.  Strong with the ball, won't get bumped off of his spot, and handles the ball well.  He showed flashes of being able to get to the rim, which is what Buzz's point guards need to be able to do offensively.  You're right, "we'll see," but we will also see about Duane Wilson.  Not sure why we have to wait and see on a kid who has played 2 years in college but we're ready to hand the reins to the team to a kid who has played some AAU ball and some Division 4 WIAA ball.

[BCHoopster]

So how does Derrick look in the Pro-Am league, is he a leader?  Beside D, I am not sure what he brings to the table.  He may get an opportunity early to get more minutes, but as the
season goes no I think he gets less and less.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So how does Derrick look in the Pro-Am league, is he a leader?  Beside D, I am not sure what he brings to the table.  He may get an opportunity early to get more minutes, but as the
season goes no I think he gets less and less.

15min. per game over/under.

I'll take the over.

You interested in the under?

[BCHoopster]

15min. per game over/under.

I'll take the over.

You interested in the under?

I am glad to see everybody wants to bet me on something, much like Aaron Rodgers bet about his friend, I will say this, if Derrick plays more than 15 minutes a game then the other 4
will be terrific on the O end, as Derrick can barely score.  College is all about the point guard, ie. Peyton Siva is a perfect example.  I think that Duane Wilson offensively can be better than
him.  Good MU teams in the past had good scoring point guards.