2013-14 projected lineup

[onepost]

Best lineup:

Du Wilson / De Wilson
Mayo / JJJ
Jamil / Burton / Juan
McKay / Taylor
Davante / Otule

Realistic lineup:

Derrick Wilson / Du Wilson
Mayo / JJJ / Burton
Juan / Jamil / Burton - Jamil doesn't start to stay outta foul trouble
McKay / Taylor
Otule / Davante

[jsglow]

Best lineup:

Du Wilson / De Wilson
Mayo / JJJ
Jamil / Burton / Juan
McKay / Taylor
Davante / Otule

Realistic lineup:

Derrick Wilson / Du Wilson
Mayo / JJJ / Burton
Juan / Jamil / Burton - Jamil doesn't start to stay outta foul trouble
McKay / Taylor
Otule / Davante

Jamil starts.  He's the alpha dog this year. Maybe at the #4 if Juan starts at the 'Lockett' #3, maybe at the #3 if McKay, Steve or DG start at the #4.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Exactly--the second unit would be better than the first. I am not trying to dis , De. Wilson, Otule or Mayo, but they are limited. If Otule starts because of his "defense", then Gardner should start at PF because of his offense, hands, touch FT's etc. I do not see what warrants Anderson starting, or Mayo, both have been way too inconsistent. And De. Wilson brings nothing offensively. IMO, the best starting line up would be:
C Otule/McKay
PF Gardner
SF Ja. Wilson/Burton
2G Whoever emerges between JJJ and Burton
PG Du. Wilson
The other switchables can fill in the minutes as subs.

Have you seen JJJ or Burton play? How can you say that both are already better than Juan?

I think we (internet basketball nerds) fall in love with prospects too fast and then give up on them if they don't produce immediately. Remember when people were giving up on Vander? Some people said Mayo was already better. Wellll, that wasn't true. Now people are killing Mayo and Juan saying that the new guys will be better. Hmmmm.

[willie warrior]

By Big East Play these will be the players getting the most minutes and playing at crunch time:

Du Wilson
Mayo
Wilson
Taylor
Gardner/Otule (a lot of subbing for D and O)

No way that you can continue to sub Gardner and Otule at crunch time. You can try, but with TO's, etc. one ends up on the floor at the expense of the other. Who do you want on the FT line late in a close game: Otule or OX? If you believe you need the D, can't Wilson/McKay fill that on help? You have to have Ox in there at crunch time!

[willie warrior]

Have you seen JJJ or Burton play? How can you say that both are already better than Juan?

I think we (internet basketball nerds) fall in love with prospects too fast and then give up on them if they don't produce immediately. Remember when people were giving up on Vander? Some people said Mayo was already better. Wellll, that wasn't true. Now people are killing Mayo and Juan saying that the new guys will be better. Hmmmm.

No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.

[wojosdojo]

1. Derrick Wilson
2. Mayo
3. Jamil
4. Ox
5. Otule

Risky, but Buzz can't not start Otule and Gardner has waited and earned every right to start.

[GGGG]

No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.

Time is running out?  He's a junior who missed all of last summer and the first half of the season last year. No patience whatsoever.

[Aughnanure]

No way that you can continue to sub Gardner and Otule at crunch time. You can try, but with TO's, etc. one ends up on the floor at the expense of the other. Who do you want on the FT line late in a close game: Otule or OX? If you believe you need the D, can't Wilson/McKay fill that on help? You have to have Ox in there at crunch time!

Do you watch the games? That's what Buzz did with Ox and Davante.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.

Didn't people say that about Vander?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

1. Derrick Wilson
2. Mayo
3. Jamil
4. Ox
5. Otule

Risky, but Buzz can't not start Otule and Gardner has waited and earned every right to start.

It's not a bad move, as the options for subs seem pretty good/flexible (juan, Taylor, McKay)... but Buzz would have to commit to zone defense to open a game. I don't know if he'll do that or not.

In theory though, if you started DG and Otule, you could sub in Juan for DG at the 4min. mark and move Otule back to center. Then you could bring back Ox after a short blow and keep him fresh. Rotate between him and Chris at Center for the remainder of the first half (about 12-14min), and then start over again in the second half.

You could probably squeeze our 6-8 min per game with them together, so that would mean about 24min. per guy playing time.

[willie warrior]

Didn't people say that about Vander?

Don't know--are you comparing Mayo to Blue?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Don't know--are you comparing Mayo to Blue?

I'm comparing the fact some people give up on a player before that player has fully developed.

Vander Blue is a good example. People were down on him before they had given him a chance to develop. 

Juan and Todd could be future examples, which is why I'm not so quick to write them off.

[GGGG]

1. Derrick Wilson
2. Mayo
3. Jamil
4. Ox
5. Otule

Risky, but Buzz can't not start Otule and Gardner has waited and earned every right to start.

You are assuming that "starting" means a great deal to Gardner.  He will likely not start but play more minutes anyway.  I don't even know what "earned every right to start" even means.

[willie warrior]

Do you watch the games? That's what Buzz did with Ox and Davante.

yeah, I watch games and their were numerous instances when one of them sat for 30 plus seconds waiting to get in, because of transition etc. which is what I said. Do you watch them?

[GGGG]

yeah, I watch games and their were numerous instances when one of them sat for 30 plus seconds waiting to get in, because of transition etc. which is what I said. Do you watch them?

OK...did you also notice that Buzz had success with that strategy despite your objections?

[MarsupialMadness]

They would be both get tired and in early foul trouble if both Davante and Chris started. 

[bilsu]

They would be both get tired and in early foul trouble if both Davante and Chris started. 

They both would be expending energy at the same time, so I could buy the argument that both would get tired at the same time. However, I disagree with the foul scenario. Neither one commits a lot of fouls, so playing at the same time should not matter. I think, if starting is important to Gardner vs winning 6th man of the year Buzz will start him. I also believe Gardner wants to play some power forward. Starting Otule at center and Gardner at PF and letting them play 5 minutes together gives Gardner both a starting position and time at power forward, so I think that will happen. Also, if Buzz wants to put on a full court press it is probably more effective to leave both Otule and Gardner on the bench during that time. I do not know, but I could see Buzz opening with a zone with Gardner & Otule and then replacing them with McKay at center and going up temple on both offense and defense. At the same time Buzz would be replacing Derrick with Duane at point. You can argue the other two positions in this scenario.

[GGGG]

Outside of the first game against Syracuse, which IMO is completely negated by the second game, can anyone point to a single time last season when playing Gardner and Otule at the same time actually worked?

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'm not sure they were on the court together prior to the first game against Syracuse.  If they were it was for a very limited amount of time.

[GGGG]

I'm not sure they were on the court together prior to the first game against Syracuse.  If they were it was for a very limited amount of time.

Oh they were.  Davante stuggled guarding the 4...that is why you didn't see it often.  And in fact against Syracuse they actually kept Gardner at the 4 but subbed Taylor in for Otule at one point to get better defensively.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Ok. I don't recall many instances with that lineup but i am sure there were some.  Hopefully a reportedly slimmed down Davante will be better on the defensive end.  Been saying that for a while now. 

[wojosdojo]

You are assuming that "starting" means a great deal to Gardner.  He will likely not start but play more minutes anyway.  I don't even know what "earned every right to start" even means.

Starting has to mean a lot to him. How many NBA draft picks don't start on their college team? Starting for Buzz means you have earned his complete trust and you are one of the five toughest players. Having three years under the belt playing for Buzz with success Gardner has earned the right to start.

[wojosdojo]

Nm

[WarriorInNYC]

Outside of the first game against Syracuse, which IMO is completely negated by the second game, can anyone point to a single time last season when playing Gardner and Otule at the same time actually worked?

Outside of that game, it seldomly worked.  I agree with you here, do not see the reason to start both.  Would have to open in a zone as well and I would much rather move to that later in a game to throw off the opposing offense.

Additionally, throwing in an Otule-Gardner lineup on the floor would be much more effective as a change of pace during a game, IMO.

[brewcity77]

No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.

How many people said the same about Vander Blue after two seasons?

EDIT: D'oh...teach me to read to the end of the thread before posting. That Guns is a smart guy