Florida, Florida, Florida

[MerrittsMustache]

Wasn't black and stranger the description he fit? I guess I left out young.

You also left out that he was slowly walking in the rain through people's yards. If a young, black stranger was quickly walking down the sidewalk, I doubt that GZ would have thought twice about it.

I would agree with that. And of course merely notifying the police wouldn't have put GZ in any danger. Lot's of "what ifs" but the sine qua non of the whole situation is Zimmerman's pursuit. Unnecessary, unwarranted, it set off a chain of events that ended in death.

According to GZ, whose account many are quick to write-off of a lie, he got out of his car to see if he could determine which direction TM had run (which means he wasn't "pursuing" him). After not locating him, he returned to his vehicle when TM confronted him and punched him in the face. If that was actually what happened, was GZ still to be blamed for getting out of his car?

[forgetful]

You also left out that he was slowly walking in the rain through people's yards. If a young, black stranger was quickly walking down the sidewalk, I doubt that GZ would have thought twice about it.

According to GZ, whose account many are quick to write-off of a lie, he got out of his car to see if he could determine which direction TM had run (which means he wasn't "pursuing" him). After not locating him, he returned to his vehicle when TM confronted him and punched him in the face. If that was actually what happened, was GZ still to be blamed for getting out of his car?

He supposedly got out of his car to find out what street he was on to provide that information to the dispatcher.  Note, he was on his own street, on the precise dog walk that he walked everyday (pretty forgetful fella). 

GZ didn't say TM was looking into houses, he said on the recording that he was looking around.  More specifically, GZ said TM was looking at him, just staring at GZ.  Pretty reasonable thing to do when a stranger is stalking you.

GZ admits TM is running away.  Just after commenting these f'n a-*** always get away.  You can hear GZ running after him i.e. chasing him.  The dispatcher asks if he is chasing him.  He says yes.  There is no debate that TM tried to run away.

If your hypothetical was true, I would have less issue with it.  However, it isn't true as GZs own recorded phone call to 911 disproves it. 

As far as returning to his car and getting jumped from the bushes.  These issues contradict his own re-enactment of the events, as there were no bushes and there were inconsistencies with the locations he claimed to have been in.

[forgetful]

Quick question, for those that may know more about this...not trying to insinuate anything just curious.

It was known that GZ had done ride-alongs and was friendly with the Sanford police department.  I know at one point they claimed there were no records of who he would have done ride-alongs with.

Did they ever try to compel that information, or do they really not have such information. 

[ATWizJr]

Quick question, for those that may know more about this...not trying to insinuate anything just curious.

It was known that GZ had done ride-alongs and was friendly with the Sanford police department.  I know at one point they claimed there were no records of who he would have done ride-alongs with.

Did they ever try to compel that information, or do they really not have such information. 

  Relevancy?

[Jay Bee]

He supposedly got out of his car to find out what street he was on to provide that information to the dispatcher.  Note, he was on his own street, on the precise dog walk that he walked everyday (pretty forgetful fella). 

GZ didn't say TM was looking into houses, he said on the recording that he was looking around.  More specifically, GZ said TM was looking at him, just staring at GZ.  Pretty reasonable thing to do when a stranger is stalking you.

GZ admits TM is running away.  Just after commenting these f'n a-*** always get away.  You can hear GZ running after him i.e. chasing him.  The dispatcher asks if he is chasing him.  He says yes.  There is no debate that TM tried to run away.

If your hypothetical was true, I would have less issue with it.  However, it isn't true as GZs own recorded phone call to 911 disproves it. 

As far as returning to his car and getting jumped from the bushes.  These issues contradict his own re-enactment of the events, as there were no bushes and there were inconsistencies with the locations he claimed to have been in.

You are lying.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Florida Man arrested for kidnapping neighbor's dog. Having sex with it in his trailer.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-07-26/story/st-johns-sex-predator-charged-having-sex-neighbors-dog

I think we should start one of these threads for every state.  Who is up for starting Illinois next?  I'm happy to do California, but think Illinois deserves the attention.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Don't be "suspicious" and unknown to George Zimmerman, you are still alive.

Guess you're right.All TM's fault.

I agree with you (and Dershowitz) that given Florida law acquittal was the only logical verdict for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, but your blame the victim mantra is ridiculous. I think that a person in this country ought to be able to assume that going to a convenience store for soda and candy shouldn't result in being profiled and pursued by an armed fellow citizen. I further think that when an armed fellow citizen decides (contrary to police instructions) to pursue a fellow citizen who has done nothing wrong other than being black and a stranger, the armed fellow citizen bears the responsibility for and is the primary cause if the other guy ends up shot dead.

Never said it was ALL TM's fault.  I said several actions had to happen.  GZ being there alone doesn't lead to his death.  Big difference.

That's wonderful you think that.

I also think that in this country you are allowed to make citizens arrests, you are allowed to protect your property, you're also allowed to protect yourself if injury is upon you.  So saws the laws created by various localities, states, and by the feds.  Now, in some cases the laws aren't uniform.  I'd advise definitely knowing the laws in your specific area.

Tragedy that the young man died.  Shame he didn't just go into the home.  More of a shame that he attacked GZ (if we think GZ's account is accurate, which I have no reason not to believe it since everything he told the cops has checked out thus far).  He deserves the right as a citizen of this country not to have his face beat in, to live in a neighborhood that isn't robbed constantly and to do something about it if he wishes, etc. 

To each their own.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What the hell does it matter...police vs. dispatcher?  He was advised to not follow.  Period.

And legally, as stated in the court, he had no obligation to follow those instructions.   Period.  Nevertheless, also stated that the dispatcher told him to return to his car which GZ said he was doing when TM came out to him and started the "what's your problem".  So let's say GZ's account is correct, and he was returning to his car.  Let's say TM jumped him, is he supposed to let himself get his head beat into the concrete until he passes out and potentially dies until the cops arrive, or is he allowed to defend himself?

The court has spoken.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Everyone needs to follow @_FloridaMan.

Florida Man Left 6-Year-Old Son In Crashed Car Because He Thought His Driver's License Was Suspended. It Wasn't

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/man-arrested-after-crashing-car-with-son-in-back-s/nY4bB/

Florida is the worst state in America. Florida Man is the proof.

I got Illinois as worst.....for any number of reasons....proof is on the tube every day.  California a close second.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You also left out that he was slowly walking in the rain through people's yards. If a young, black stranger was quickly walking down the sidewalk, I doubt that GZ would have thought twice about it.

According to GZ, whose account many are quick to write-off of a lie, he got out of his car to see if he could determine which direction TM had run (which means he wasn't "pursuing" him). After not locating him, he returned to his vehicle when TM confronted him and punched him in the face. If that was actually what happened, was GZ still to be blamed for getting out of his car?

I know, that's what I find comical.  GZ is lying, but some of these guys hold up his girlfriend's testimony as if coming from the pages of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, despite the fact she was proven to lie on several occasions....her age, the fact she said she was in the hospital during the funeral, etc.  I guess the benefit of the doubt only goes to one side, despite absolute proof of lies.  Even the prosecutors admitted she lied...but we're supposed to believe TM was running, because she said so.  Interesting how posters here attack others and claim GZ is lying, with no proof (just a gut), but will defend others known to have lied because it benefits their outlook of the case.  Interesting.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/06/prosecutors-admit-trayvon-martins-girlfriend-lied-under-oath/

[Jay Bee]

The court has spoken.

One court has spoken. Sadly, you never know if others will also speak (with a much different result) with some of the folks currently in Washington.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Now that's a story that Chicos can get behind.  Job well done, right CBB?  After all, he was out of his house at night...

Don't speak for me ATL, based on what was reported, no it's not job well done and not ok.   I'd like to see the police video, which many municipalities are forced to use now. I know here in Los Angeles they are.  Should clear it up pretty quickly.  On the surface, sounds like the cops f'd up and this guy is going to get a big check as a result. 

Or we can talk about stories like this...where's George Zimmerman (or the cops) when you need them. 

http://gothamist.com/2013/07/20/2nd_suspect_arrested_for_raping_thr.php

[Pakuni]

Ummm .... Chico's .... you know Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher TM was running, don't you? His own statement confirms her testimony on that issue. In your rush to character assasinate you aren't even bothering to deal with the known facts.
You're beyond any semblance of rationality at this point.

[forgetful]

You are lying.

Listen to the recording of his 911 call.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8

Indicating that he is running occurs around 2:14.

Unless you are talking about the bushes...if so look at the T intersection where he says the encounter occurred (no bushes), of course that is a good 20-30 yards from where the body was found.  Here is a video of GZs reenactment.  The body was found 20-30 yards down between the houses from the T-intersection.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakGZgJxTi4

Look, the one thing that is absolutely clear is that we essentially know nothing about what actually occurred.  There is about a 3 minute time span that can not be accounted for in everyones story.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I just hope Illinois is able to correct their Stand Your Ground laws...you know the ones strengthened in 2004 by someone who co-sponsored the bill (SB 2386) in the state Senate that won overwhelmingly.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/23/did-obama-vote-for-a-stand-your-ground-b


As for the Florida law....  “African Americans benefit from Florida’s ‘Stand Your Ground” self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state’s population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing ’stand your ground’ would help African Americans.”

A third of Florida’s Stand Your Ground claims in homicide cases are made by African-Americans, a rate nearly double the black percentage of the state’s population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that of Florida whites."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ummm .... Chico's .... you know Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher TM was running, don't you? His own statement confirms her testimony on that issue. In your rush to character assasinate you aren't even bothering to deal with the known facts.
You're beyond any semblance of rationality at this point.

Plenty rationale Pakuni.  Just like the jury.  You're right, he does say on the transcript he is running.  See, he's not a liar.  I'm still waiting to hear from any of you what he said that was a lie.  We know she has lied, where exactly has he lied or is it just your "gut feeling"?  And please don't lecture me on facts, when you have implied GZ is lying without any factual information to back it up.  Comments like "that's an incredible self-serving story Mr. Zimmerman".  Or "Yep, cause the completely reasonable and rational response to being punched is to open fire" and completely leaving out his head being bashed into the ground.  Or this one "Except that's a bastardized version of what one juror said, and four of the other five jurors issued a statement saying they didn't agree with her."   Four of five jurors did NOT say they didn't agree with her on that comment, they said she doesn't speak for all of them.  Huge difference.

So I'll ask again, where is GZ lying...where is the proof that he is? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Look, the one thing that is absolutely clear is that we essentially know nothing about what actually occurred.  There is about a 3 minute time span that can not be accounted for in everyones story.

And yet despite this we have people saying he (GZ) lied, he started the fight, he had his gun out before TM went after him, we have theories that he was holding him until the cops arrived, we have theories that he was intent on killing him no matter what.  This is why he was acquitted, because we don't know.  Reasonable doubt personified. 

All we know are the facts.

Kid used Purple Drank or Lean.  Went to store at night in rain and bought two of the three products for Lean.
We know he smoked marijuana earlier (not weeks earlier as one poster said here) and the medical examiner said it could have or could not have influenced him. (unlike posters here saying it had absolute no effect)
We know by his texts, emails, etc that he was looking to purchase a gun and got into several recent fights
We know the neighborhood was robbed 8 times in the previous 15 months.  8, in a small geographic area.  Perpetuated by young African American males. (this according to Zimmerman's African American neighbor) http://the-american-journal.com/zimmerman-neighbors-fear-black-youth/
We know one robbery was actually thwarted (Feb 2) by a Zimmerman call to cops
Despite the 8 known robberies, neighbors said dozens of others were committed, not all reported to the police. 

We know GZ called the cops the night of incident, stayed on with the cops on the phone. 
We know he said TM was on top, which a witness confirmed
We know he said he as on top of TM after he shot him, which another witness confirmed
We know his head was bashed and his nose broken
We know one 17 year old is dead.  We know one 29 year old was convicted by the media and many of the citizenry before a trial (Duke Lacrosse case anyone)
We know one "white Hispanic" said he feared for his life and has injuries to prove it to his nose and face 
We know he gave 6 statements to police without a lawyer and fully cooperated at every turn
We know when interviewed by police they claimed the entire episode was on video that GZ was relieved and said "Thank God" because he was certain the video would put to rest his need to fire
We know the jury found him not guilty.
We know a lot of people that have no idea about the law or the case claim it was unjust and even foolishly claim Stand your Ground law is in effect, when it was not even part of the defense's claims
We know GZ will have to look over his shoulder the of his life.
We know some, including some here, will say he lied without one shred of evidence that he did

[forgetful]

Plenty rationale Pakuni.  Just like the jury.  You're right, he does say on the transcript he is running.  See, he's not a liar.  I'm still waiting to hear from any of you what he said that was a lie.  We know she has lied, where exactly has he lied or is it just your "gut feeling"?  And please don't lecture me on facts, when you have implied GZ is lying without any factual information to back it up.  Comments like "that's an incredible self-serving story Mr. Zimmerman".  Or "Yep, cause the completely reasonable and rational response to being punched is to open fire" and completely leaving out his head being bashed into the ground.  Or this one "Except that's a bastardized version of what one juror said, and four of the other five jurors issued a statement saying they didn't agree with her."   Four of five jurors did NOT say they didn't agree with her on that comment, they said she doesn't speak for all of them.  Huge difference.

So I'll ask again, where is GZ lying...where is the proof that he is?  

I'm not going to call GZ a liar, but there are discrepancies to his statements.

1.  What happened in the missing 3 and a half minutes from when he got off his phone to when he was reportedly attacked 30 feet from the end of his phone call.  He said he walked back to his car.  Should have only taken him about 40 seconds to reach it.

2.  How did Trayvon punch him, while covering his mouth, while reaching for a gun.  I haven't see detailed photos of TM, but I never heard about his third arm.

3.  How did they get to where the body was found (20-30 yards away) from where in the video he says he was attacked.

4.  How did his car end up facing west, when his description of the evening has him approaching from that direction.

5.  How can you know nothing about the stand-your-ground law if your professor admits it was covered in a class you attended.

6.  Did you forget about the $150k and your second passport?  http://gawker.com/5915713/george-zimmermans-lawyer-admits-his-client-lied-about-his-finances

These are a few, there are more.  

You comments to his girlfriend lying.  Largely are in reference to why she didn't go to the funeral.  Completely immaterial to the case.  Just like GZ and his wife talking in code to hide their assets.  Not important, as they are not directly related to the events of the evening.

[ChicosBailBonds]

95 year old man killed by police in Illinois.  95 years old...wrong or right?  Who knows...if this happened in Florida I wonder the response.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-autopsy-bean-bag-rounds-fired-by-police-killed-park-forest-man-95-20130728,0,5356856.story

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not going to call GZ a liar, but there are discrepancies to his statements.

1.  What happened in the missing 3 and a half minutes from when he got off his phone to when he was reportedly attacked 30 feet from the end of his phone call.  He said he walked back to his car.  Should have only taken him about 40 seconds to reach it.

2.  How did Trayvon punch him, while covering his mouth, while reaching for a gun.  I haven't see detailed photos of TM, but I never heard about his third arm.

3.  How did they get to where the body was found (20-30 yards away) from where in the video he says he was attacked.

4.  How did his car end up facing west, when his description of the evening has him approaching from that direction.

5.  How can you know nothing about the stand-your-ground law if your professor admits it was covered in a class you attended.

6.  Did you forget about the $150k and your second passport?  http://gawker.com/5915713/george-zimmermans-lawyer-admits-his-client-lied-about-his-finances

These are a few, there are more.  

You comments to his girlfriend lying.  Largely are in reference to why she didn't go to the funeral.  Completely immaterial to the case.  Just like GZ and his wife talking in code to hide their assets.  Not important, as they are not directly related to the events of the evening.

You've already said he lied, too late not to call him a liar. Pakuni has insinuated the same.

My comments about his girlfriend are that she claimed she was 16, she was 18 at the time and now 19.  Yes, about the funeral, but also about the letter and what she left out of her original statements only to have them come out in testimony like "crazy ass cracker".  She has 4 or 5 of them.

There is a lot of stuff I can't remember that my professors taught, how is that unusual?

As for the street signs, I find that totally reasonable.  My wife and I were talking about this today how the street one over to us neither of us could remember the name of it yet we take it everyday for 5+ years.  You just do it by habit and it's this tiny street we are on for maybe 8 houses before turning.  If someone put a gun to my head or a cop asked what the name of that street was, I'd get it wrong.

His car, who knows.  Was it moved?  Did he get confused on his direction and stated it wrong in the first place?

Your 3rd arm explanation is cute, but I think the defense took that nonsense to hole pretty strong.  Read the transcript.

[ChicosBailBonds]

About what the other juror really said

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.html

Love the mainstream media in this country   

[Henry Sugar]

95 year old man killed by police in Illinois.  95 years old...wrong or right?  Who knows...if this happened in Florida I wonder the response.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-autopsy-bean-bag-rounds-fired-by-police-killed-park-forest-man-95-20130728,0,5356856.story

For Illinois vs Florida, that's pretty weak.

I present you with this:

Florida Man Seen Masturbating Outside Woman's House Three Times; Claims He Was Just Urinating Behind Bushes

http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/Palm-Beach-County-News/melchisedech-isoph-arrested-accused-of-repeatedly-masturbating-outside-womans-house/-/8815578/21165030/-/e2d2lw/-/index.html

[Henry Sugar]

I think we should start one of these threads for every state.  Who is up for starting Illinois next?  I'm happy to do California, but think Illinois deserves the attention.

Florida Man Charged After 3-Year-Old Found Home Alone With Live Grenade, Machine Guns And Arsenal Of Ammunition

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21011241617529/man-charged-after-leaving-child-home-alone-with-weapons/

[ChicosBailBonds]

We're in agreement.  Argument was for Chicos, who refuses to acknowledge that a precipitating event is responsible for downstream outcomes.

Show me where I ever said that.  In fact, I said the opposite.  It was a contributing factor, a linkage event.  However another even had to happen for him to die.  Please, stop making stuff up.

True or false, GZ's act ALONE of following TM that night meant he was going to die?
True or false, it took another action in ADDITION to him following him that ultimately led to his death?

Of course they are linked, never said otherwise.  But doing A, doesn't mean B happens. B happened because of decisions made that could have been made differently and no one dies.

[Henry Sugar]

Drunk, Shirtless Florida Man Arrested For Pooping On Sidewalk Outside Gas Station

http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/Palm-Beach-County-News/scott-cassidy-arrested-after-defecating-on-sidewalk-deputies-say/-/8815578/20998464/-/b7bgcmz/-/index.html