1:17:49 of pure heaven

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1

It's also hard to explain to younger fans and others that weren't following MU or CBB closely in 2003 how significant and shocking that win was. It wasn't even the fact that we beat the perceived best team in the nation, but how we beat that team on that big of a stage. Great game plan from Crean and an amazing effort from Wade. Wade was the best player on the court by a very significant margin.

Bottom line, that was a program changing win. I love re-living the memory.

Absolutely.  Major event and impact to program, biggest in last 30 years bar none.

[Lennys Tap]

Absolutely.  Major event and impact to program, biggest in last 30 years bar none.

Right. Any game that could catapult the program to consecutive NITs and one NCAA tournament game victory over the next five years has to rank as one of the most impactful in Marquette history. An earthquake without an aftershock, right up there with George Mason's elite 8 win over UCONN.

[keefe]

An earthquake without an aftershock

Very well put. The after shock was 5 years later with The Bronzed Beast's Betrayal. It wasn't that he was leaving - we all knew he wanted out given his shameless posturing and self-promotion for every job out there. Rather, it was the gutless manner in which he slunk out of town without any of the usual courtesies to employer, staff, or pupils. If there was any doubt about his lack of character his craven behavior while departing erased all doubt.

[barfolomew]

It's also hard to explain to younger fans and others that weren't following MU or CBB closely in 2003 how significant and shocking that win was. It wasn't even the fact that we beat the perceived best team in the nation, but how we beat that team on that big of a stage. Great game plan from Crean and an amazing effort from Wade. Wade was the best player on the court by a very significant margin.

Bottom line, that was a program changing win. I love re-living the memory.

I recall thinking at the time -- and discussing with other cbb fans -- that the Kansas/Arizona elite eight game the night before ours should have been the national championship game that tourney. Arizona was tough at the end of the season.

[MUSF]

Right. Any game that could catapult the program to consecutive NITs and one NCAA tournament game victory over the next five years has to rank as one of the most impactful in Marquette history. An earthquake without an aftershock, right up there with George Mason's elite 8 win over UCONN.

I'm sure that final four had no impact on our move to the Big East or future recruiting success.

For all the recent Larry W. fear mongering about MU becoming SLU, we may actually have been in their position without that final four.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm sure that final four had no impact on our move to the Big East or future recruiting success.

For all the recent Larry W. fear mongering about MU becoming SLU, we may actually have been in their position without that final four.

Especially when Tranghese flat out said it did impact it.  Lenny, Keefe and Box of whatever live in a different world.  TO this day some of them I have yet to see ever acknowledge that we beat the #1 team in the country and got to the Final Four...it's truly amazing.  I also love the tired song about how it was leveraged into two NIT seasons....as if this is the first time that has happened.  Not only did it happen before, but to many great teams with great coaches like Bob Knight, just one example.  But facts don't seem to matter much.  These are the same people when we get blown out in the Final Four to the eventual national runner-up, it's the end of the world.  But if the same school is blown out by a team you know like the back of your hand, play them every year and that team doesn't even get to the championship game, it's a non-issue. 

"The only vice that cannot be forgiven is hypocrisy. The repentance of a hypocrite is itself hypocrisy."
William Hazlitt

[keefe]

"The only vice that cannot be forgiven is hypocrisy. The repentance of a hypocrite is itself hypocrisy."
William Hazlitt

"The truest characters of ignorance are vanity and pride and arrogance."
Samuel Butler

[wadesworld]

I recall thinking at the time -- and discussing with other cbb fans -- that the Kansas/Arizona elite eight game the night before ours should have been the national championship game that tourney. Arizona was tough at the end of the season.

...and then Syracuse went and won it all.

[barfolomew]

An earthquake without an aftershock, right up there with George Mason's elite 8 win over UCONN.

Not that I care much about this argument, but the mere fact that you remember an otherwise un-reknowned university based on their final four appearance from seven years ago kind of proves their point.

[barfolomew]

...and then Syracuse went and won it all.

True, but then again I have no memory of any events after the MU loss, except listening to zydeco in a Bourbon Street bar trying to be consoled by some overly-patronizing Kansas fans...

[keefe]

Not that I care much about this argument, but the mere fact that you remember an otherwise un-reknowned university based on their final four appearance from seven years ago kind of proves their point.

That's too obtuse. We also remember Rosie Ruiz, Joe Charboneau, Bobo Holloman, and Buster Douglas. Fame and glory are two very different realms.

[Lennys Tap]

Not that I care much about this argument, but the mere fact that you remember an otherwise un-reknowned university based on their final four appearance from seven years ago kind of proves their point.

First of all, the final four appearance was 10 years ago. Secondly, I recall pretty much chapter and verse the last 47 basketball seasons of that university you consider unrenowned. So your wrong and more wrong.

[keefe]

First of all, the final four appearance was 10 years ago. Secondly, I recall pretty much chapter and verse the last 47 basketball seasons of that university you consider unrenowned. So your wrong and more wrong.

Lenny, I think he is referring to the Mighty Patriots of Geo. Mason.

[barfolomew]

That's too obtuse. We also remember Rosie Ruiz, Joe Charboneau, Bobo Holloman, and Buster Douglas. Fame and glory are two very different realms.

Yes, I definitely don't care much about this argument, because I thought we were talking about neither fame nor glory, only national exposure.

And yes, I meant GMU -- my apologies for either obfuscation or obtuseness.

[Lennys Tap]

[quote author=ChicosBailBonds link=topic=38957.msg500310#msg500310 date=I also love the tired song about how it was leveraged into two NIT seasons....as if this is the first time that has happened.  Not only did it happen before, but to many great teams with great coaches like Bob Knight, just one example.  But facts don't seem to matter much. 
[/quote]

Nice try. In 29 years at Indiana Knight NEVER had back to back NITs. Here's the Knight at IU vs Crean at MU:

Sweet 16s: Knight 13 Crean 1
Elite 8s:     Knight 8   Crean 1
Final Fours:Knight 5.  Crean 1
Final Game:Knight3   Crean 0
NCAA Titles:Knight 3. Crean 0

Crean had one (1) season at MU in which he got past the round of 32. Knight had thirteen (13) at IU. You might as well compare Bob Dukiet to Al McGuire.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, Keefe and Box of whatever live in a different world.  TO this day some of them I have yet to see ever acknowledge that we beat the #1 team in the country and got to the Final Four...it's truly amazing. 

Sorry, but I LOVED the win over Kentucky. Great moment in Marquette basketball history. Props to TC and the players. I don't even put an asterisk next to the win noting that UK's best player was limping on a sprained ankle. It was one magic moment in one magical season. My problem is that it was an extreme outlier in a Marquette coaching career that otherwise looked pretty similar to Mike Deane's.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, I definitely don't care much about this argument, because I thought we were talking about neither fame nor glory, only national exposure.

And yes, I meant GMU -- my apologies for either obfuscation or obtuseness.

Sorry, barf, my mistake.

[MUSF]

My problem is that it was an extreme outlier in a Marquette coaching career that otherwise looked pretty similar to Mike Deane's.

My problem is that this is just not true.

Deane and Crean's careers are only similar if you look at their overall records and post season records without considering the context or any other measures of success. There is a reason that Deane went to Wagner when he left MU and Crean went to Indiana. Program was headed in different directions when each of them left MU. Only the revisionist historians here at MUScoop can argue otherwise.

[🏀]

My problem is that this is just not true.

Deane and Crean's careers are only similar if you look at their overall records and post season records without considering the context or any other measures of success. There is a reason that Deane went to Wagner when he left MU and Crean went to Indiana. Program was headed in different directions when each of them left MU. Only the revisionist historians here at MUScoop can argue otherwise.

No, it's very true. He did say 'extreme outlier'. Without that 'extreme outlier', Crean isn't going to IU.

[MUSF]

No, it's very true. He did say 'extreme outlier'. Without that 'extreme outlier', Crean isn't going to IU.

Maybe, but he also isn't going to Wagner. Not with the program on an upswing and the three amigos doing their thing.

Of course, some will probably counter that without that extreme outlier Crean wouldn't have the three amigos and the program wouldn't be in an upswing. That is why this entire argument is dumb.

Without that one sweet sixteen season, O'Neill's career is pretty much like Dukiet's...

[keefe]

Maybe, but he also isn't going to Wagner. Not with the program on an upswing and the three amigos doing their thing.

Of course, some will probably counter that without that extreme outlier Crean wouldn't have the three amigos and the program wouldn't be in an upswing. That is why this entire argument is dumb.

Without that one sweet sixteen season, Deane's career is pretty much like Dukiet's...

Well, it is if the measurement is Sweet Sixteens as neither Dukiet nor Deane breathed that rarified air.

[MUSF]

Well, it is if the measurement is Sweet Sixteens as neither Dukiet nor Deane breathed that rarified air.

Meant to say O'Neill. Either way you get the point.

[ChicosBailBonds]

First of all, the final four appearance was 10 years ago. Secondly, I recall pretty much chapter and verse the last 47 basketball seasons of that university you consider unrenowned. So your wrong and more wrong.

But most people don't, but remember us because of the Final Four, or older folks because of Al.  How many people in this country knew what Butler was 5 years ago?  Not many..  George Mason in the last decade.  Boise State in football?  There are pinnacle moments that go beyond what sports fanatics know, but get into the everyday world of the non-fan.  For MU, biggest moment in last 30 years is Final Four and DWade.  Is what it is.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, it is if the measurement is Sweet Sixteens as neither Dukiet nor Deane breathed that rarified air.

For 95% of the country, they have no idea who made the Sweet 16's, let alone from a few years ago.  ZERO IDEA. 

[keefe]

For 95% of the country, they have no idea who made the Sweet 16's, let alone from a few years ago.  ZERO IDEA. 

Speaking of obtuse...applying your logic it could also be argued that 99.999% of the American population have never heard of Scoop and could not name the Men's head basketball coach at Indiana University.