Marquette University adopts vision to raise its profile

[GGGG]

You surely aren't blaming the meteoric rise in college tution on federal fiscal policies, right? That's a total non-sequitor.

I think people on the left and right agree this is an issue and universities need to be held accountable. Bottom line is there's just no accountability whatsoever. Ok, I somewhat blame the federal student loan agency as a secondary cause for automatically raising the amount students and parents can borrow, but they are doing this in response to the colleges themselves raising the cost.

The higher learning system needs a complete overhaul. They are supporting tenured professors with adjuncts who make slave wages and tuition costs that are driving middle class families broke.

I actually think Chicos is more right than you think.  Colleges and universities don't really have to deal with a supply and demand issue money is so easilly lent out - and is oftentimes lent to students who perhaps are better suited in places other than four year schools.

Now don't get me wrong - if you are a student who is very likely going to graduate and going into a field where a job is a likely possibility, borrowing money for college is a no-brainer.  But it's a dynamic marketplace.  Marquette is doing what it can do to maximize revenue and the federal governments financial aid policies are a part of that.

[GGGG]

My friends who started as HVAC, plumbing, etc apprentices make a pretty good living.  Plus they don't have the enormous debt that exists for a lot of new graduates.  Additionally, there are actually jobs available.  It may sound like heresy, but if I had a child that was college age that didn't get scholarships, grants, financial aid, and was considering college, I'd tell him or her that they should probably not go to college.  The risk/reward just isn't there anymore.

Depends on the kid.  I mean you can always live a comfortable life as a plumber, and that's fine if what your kid wants is comfort.  But it's a career with limitations. 

[warriorchick]

Well, I can only speak to the ones I called, but many of them did not answer and did not have working answering machines. We were instructed to leave messages if they did. Perhaps the volunteer responsible for your house did not leave a message, or the missed you guys. Would be unfortunate if that was the case, its not supposed to happen.

I also know they break it down by region. I am in the Chicagoland region and we are very thorough. If you are located somewhere else, maybe the admissions coordinator there isn't doing as good of a job.

But the people making the calls were still volunteers.  The people from other schools recruiting my kids were employees of the university.  I answered the phone a lot when they called and got to be rather friendly with some of them.  I still remember their names.  They also sent cards with personal notes written inside, and emailed them articles and links that they thought my kids would find interesting.  I know it made my kids feel important.

They both wound up at Marquette, but to be honest their choice had nothing to do with any effort on the Admissions Department's part.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You surely aren't blaming the meteoric rise in college tution on federal fiscal policies, right? That's a total non-sequitor.

I think people on the left and right agree this is an issue and universities need to be held accountable. Bottom line is there's just no accountability whatsoever. Ok, I somewhat blame the federal student loan agency as a secondary cause for automatically raising the amount students and parents can borrow, but they are doing this in response to the colleges themselves raising the cost.

The higher learning system needs a complete overhaul. They are supporting tenured professors with adjuncts who make slave wages and tuition costs that are driving middle class families broke.

Nope.  I was making the comment about easy money...money money money everywhere.  Price increases...most of them tied to labor.  I'll let you decide why that is being driven the way it is.

[Coleman]

They also have their own hospitals.  I am sure that makes a big difference.

Doesn't MCW? I thought that's what Froedert was...

[GGGG]

Another84:

I contacted my friend about the whole scholarship issue and targeting the highest level students and this is in summary what she said.

It is an incredibly competitive marketplace for the highest level students.  They can go pretty much anywhere they want and go there for free.  If schools have enough money, they can be very strong in that pool, but for those schools that don't have those resources, concentrating too much on those students can be harmful to their overall academic profile if you don't have the $$ to be competitive for the next level of student.

She doesn't work with Marquette, but she said that it sounds like they have aimed to be competitive in the 90th percentile - where there are a lot more students so the competition isn't as tough.  They don't require as much money to lure them to campus, so it leaves a lot left over for 80th percentile...70th percentile students.  And your overall academic profile is a snapshot of all of your students not just those at the top.

Now she also said that if MU wants to go higher than 83 in USN&WR, they are going to have to increase resources to attract the highest level students while also maintaining the resources to get those 90th, 80th and 70th percentile kids that they have gotten previously.  That would require A SIZABLE increase in their endowment.

So maybe that is where they are heading.

[mu_hilltopper]

I actually think Chicos is more right than you think.  Colleges and universities don't really have to deal with a supply and demand issue money is so easilly lent out - and is oftentimes lent to students who perhaps are better suited in places other than four year schools.

Now don't get me wrong - if you are a student who is very likely going to graduate and going into a field where a job is a likely possibility, borrowing money for college is a no-brainer.  But it's a dynamic marketplace.  Marquette is doing what it can do to maximize revenue and the federal governments financial aid policies are a part of that.

Co-sign.

Once the Federal Govt got into the business of backing student loans, banks will loan to roughly anyone who wants higher education, regardless of the value of the underlying asset, namely, the future earning power of the degree obtained.

Engineering degrees and anthropology degrees have a vastly different future earning power, yet they are funded the same.

Meanwhile, with this flood of loans, Universities aren't incentivized to cut costs like regular business is, and go the opposite way: the costlier the college, the more prestigious it must be.

Those days are numbered, either via governmental policy changes (less likely) or by education consumers wising up.

[jsglow]

I'll comment on a couple of themes here.  First, I'm glad that MU stayed exactly where it is.  Jesuit universities are typically immersed in the central part of an urban area.  For some, it has no appeal.  For others, it represents a significant draw.  Oh, and by the way, Marquette handled its 'urban problem' totally differently than did SLU.  Without getting into too many details, our significantly closer proximity to downtown made our strategy more possible.  Such might not have been a plausible option in St. Louis.

Second, I have long been a vocal advocate for active and aggressive recruiting by Admissions and the university as a whole.  As warriorchick mentioned, both our kids were aggressively recruited by other universities.  I can assure you that has an impact on a 17 y/o kid.  As to the scholarship issue, TS is correct that we'll need a sizable increase in our endowment to routinely compete for the 95th percentile kids who doesn't already have some plausible ties to the university (legacy, Illinois/Wisc. resident, Catholic, etc.)

Lastly, I have used my bully pulpit to encourage university senior leadership to remember that the incoming Frosh class represents the 'new customers' on campus each August.  At least two Deans limit 'bureaucratic' meetings on Frosh move-in day and now spend a block of time shaking hands on speciality dorm floors, while carrying a few boxes alongside moms and dads, and specifically thanking them for entrusting Marquette with their kids.  Lest anyone who gets a paycheck from Marquette ever forget the reason they are there.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Co-sign.

Once the Federal Govt got into the business of backing student loans, banks will loan to roughly anyone who wants higher education, regardless of the value of the underlying asset, namely, the future earning power of the degree obtained.

Engineering degrees and anthropology degrees have a vastly different future earning power, yet they are funded the same.

Meanwhile, with this flood of loans, Universities aren't incentivized to cut costs like regular business is, and go the opposite way: the costlier the college, the more prestigious it must be.

Those days are numbered, either via governmental policy changes (less likely) or by education consumers wising up.

Bingo.

The interesting thing is that it opens up the marketplace for alternatives.

Obviously there is Juco and community college, but maybe another viable alternative develops. Maybe a prep-school/juco hybrid. More structure than a juco, but still better value when compared to spending big $$$ for your frosh. and soph. year at a 4 year school.

Also, I think the HS educational system could use a revamp as well, but that's a whole different topic.

[warriorchick]

Co-sign.


Those days are numbered, either via governmental policy changes (less likely) or by education consumers wising up.

Fortunately, this is already happening with the for-profit colleges that load naive, hopeful, people up with tens of thousands of dollars in loans, take their lifetime eligibility for Pell Grants, and give them basically nothing in return.

We park down by Everest College when we go to the BC for games, and it used to depress me to see the number of people lined at the bus stop near there late at night, looking exhausted (because you know a lot of them worked a full day before they went to class), and me knowing that they were probably wasting their time and money.  I have heard it has closed down; good riddance.

[mu_hilltopper]

(Heath care discussion was moved to a new thread in SuperBar .. this thread can continue on MU's Long term planning powerpoint..)

[keefe]

[
I would put Washington wines up against Cal any day. I will say my favorite overall winery is Merryvale and I am partial to the Lodi old vine zins but Washington viticulture has come into its own. The best merlot in the world is now from Walla Walla's Northstar while Novelty Hill's Sangiovese is simply stunning. I would also recommend anything from Desert Wind but their Ruah is legendary.

What would recommend from Bledsoe's winery? 


Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone.  The greatest hidden values and the best wines in America are from Washington State!!!  Andrew Will, Spring Valley (Frederick or Uriah), Leonetti, Cayuse, Canoe Ridge, Pepper Bridge, just to name a few.   Check out the most recent alumni magazine and see Dineen Vineyard near Yakima, a MU grad. 

Wow. I have visited the Dineen tasting room. We used to drive over the pass and spend the day tasting in Zillah and Dineen was one of the stops. They have a truck out front which is their brand image. Great Cab Franc. I had no idea the owner was an MU grad.

We regularly hit Dineen, Silver Lake, Bonair, Severino, Two Mountains and Sagelands on a Sunday afternoon. Rattlesnake Hills has some outstanding wineries.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Son #2 and 3 teammates from state runner-up team signed with the Cougs. He had offers from USAFA, Vandals, Sun Devils, Grizzlies, among others. They didn't win much as those were dark years in the Palouse but he certainly made life time friends. He's now in Med School at Michigan so obviously his football career ended in Pullman.

I would put Washington wines up against Cal any day. I will say my favorite overall winery is Merryvale and I am partial to the Lodi old vine zins but Washington viticulture has come into its own. The best merlot in the world is now from Walla Walla's Northstar while Novelty Hill's Sangiovese is simply stunning. I would also recommend anything from Desert Wind but their Ruah is legendary.

What would recommend from Bledsoe's winery? 

A neighbor of ours was the QB at Wazzou many years ago when I was growing up....Brad Gossen....1987-1990.  Starter his last two years, now president of EBA&M in Orange County.

DoubleBack Vineyards (Bledsoe's winery) is known for their Cabernet Sauv.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Of course he is.  Don't you dare question him either.   

And, of course, you were wrong...again.   

[keefe]

We park down by Everest College when we go to the BC for games, and it used to depress me to see the number of people lined at the bus stop near there late at night, looking exhausted (because you know a lot of them worked a full day before they went to class), and me knowing that they were probably wasting their time and money.  I have heard it has closed down; good riddance.

I hope the whole for-profit education industry collapses. Chicos is correct in that the rapid acceleration in available cheap money fueled the growth of secondary education, not the least of which was the for-profit segment. These guys preyed on military enlisted, largely drawn by military education benefits. Schools like Everest, Argosy, AIU, Colorado Tech, et al sucked up the entitlements of young airmen, soldiers, sailors, and marines in exchange for worthless "diplomas." Thankfully, the Air Force went balls to the wall in letting airmen know the value of degrees from these on-line mills.

[keefe]

A neighbor of ours was the QB at Wazzou many years ago when I was growing up....Brad Gossen....1987-1990.  Starter his last two years, now president of EBA&M in Orange County.

DoubleBack Vineyards (Bledsoe's winery) is known for their Cabernet Sauv.   

Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out. Any particular vintage?

[mugrad2006]

I finally got around to reading this.  As somebody who's worked in strategic planning in the past (albeit in the corporate world, not higher ed), this seems like not much more than fluff PR to me.  There's a lot missing in the "why" this strategy is the right strategy (i.e. is more research important, does a greater focus on social justice help to attract the types of students MU wants relative to its peer schools)  and "how" it's going to get there.  Definition of success is clear in some cases (a lot of mention of Carnegie and US News rankings) and should provide more tactical direction, but overall doesn't seem like there is an actionable plan in place.

This isn't a critique on MU as the institution it is, but more on the detail and method of communication given in getting to the outlined goals. Personally I would have liked to see more rigor in the details if this is truly a strategic plan and not just a vision statement.

[AZWarrior]

One thing the MU administration needs to do is to get the town fathers (and mothers) of Marquette, MI to change their city name to something, anything else. 

Is there anyone on this board who has not been told MU is in MI?   

[Tugg Speedman]

Another84:

I contacted my friend about the whole scholarship issue and targeting the highest level students and this is in summary what she said.

It is an incredibly competitive marketplace for the highest level students.  They can go pretty much anywhere they want and go there for free.  If schools have enough money, they can be very strong in that pool, but for those schools that don't have those resources, concentrating too much on those students can be harmful to their overall academic profile if you don't have the $$ to be competitive for the next level of student.

She doesn't work with Marquette, but she said that it sounds like they have aimed to be competitive in the 90th percentile - where there are a lot more students so the competition isn't as tough.  They don't require as much money to lure them to campus, so it leaves a lot left over for 80th percentile...70th percentile students.  And your overall academic profile is a snapshot of all of your students not just those at the top.

Now she also said that if MU wants to go higher than 83 in USN&WR, they are going to have to increase resources to attract the highest level students while also maintaining the resources to get those 90th, 80th and 70th percentile kids that they have gotten previously.  That would require A SIZABLE increase in their endowment.

So maybe that is where they are heading.

The USC program is targeted at the top kids that send in an application.  That means that kid has an interest and USC has a machinery in place to offer money, personal contact (via administrators, existing students and profs ... Not volunteers) and other enticements to attend.  Your response sounds different than this, about reaching out to top kids to get them to apply in the first place.

Based on other posts here, sounds like MU does little more than form letters, volunteer contact and offers to fill out more applications for top students that applied.

If MU wants to move up the ranking, they need better students.  They can start by identifying the top 100 to 300 applications they get every year and give them money, pay for visits (good seats to a basketball game for their visit?), assign professors and students to woo them.

USC does this.  Dartmouth and Georgetown are also aggressive in going after top applications as well.

Many of them will come if they are felt wanted.  Make them feel wanted.  Form letters do not do this.

[ShannonSmith]

The University should start by paying all the media outlets to NOT show Marquette, MI on weather reports. No idea why they always show that little city, but most people assume that's where MU is

[Dr. Blackheart]

Aspirations are fine and dandy, however, as a commercial entity, is it better for MU to try to go head to head for fewer students with BC, UND or Gtown, all with significantly better research facilities and higher endowments, or to be the best of the next tier?  In the end, MU is an engineering, law and a medical services school.  The Eastern elite will be lining up to travel to Milwaukee versus being in the exciting hubs of Boston and DC I am sure.  

This is why Pilarz's vision is mismatched for the Midwest. He really doesn't understand his base Midwest Catholic consumer, or the school of firsts.  Hispanics will be the number one demographic of kids in the near future, for example, and unlike the baby boomers who as parents went to college in high numbers, many parents of future students will not have gone to college.  This vision is only about an academic aspiration, but it isn't linked to why it makes reasonable business sense.  A real miss, IMO.

Wild understood what Marquette's core brand was and who the school's consumers were, raised MU to the best of the next tier, raised the recruiting profile out east via the Big East, understood what the market advantaged majors were, also had MU positioned as one of the most affordable private schools (believe it or not Topper) and recruited the hell out of Chicago.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Aspirations are fine and dandy, however, as a commercial entity, is it better for MU to try to go head to head for fewer students with BC, UND or Gtown, all with significantly better research facilities and higher endowments, or to be the best of the next tier?  In the end, MU is an engineering, law and a medical services school.  The Eastern elite will be lining up to travel to Milwaukee versus being in the exciting hubs of Boston and DC I am sure.  

This is why Pilarz's vision is mismatched for the Midwest. He really doesn't understand his base Midwest Catholic consumer, or the school of firsts.  Hispanics will be the number one demographic of kids in the near future, for example, and unlike the baby boomers who as parents went to college in high numbers, many parents of future students will not have gone to college.  This vision is only about an academic aspiration, but it isn't linked to why it makes reasonable business sense.  A real miss, IMO.

Wild understood what Marquette's core brand was and who the school's consumers were, raised MU to the best of the next tier, raised the recruiting profile out east via the Big East, understood what the market advantaged majors were, also had MU positioned as one of the most affordable private schools (believe it or not Topper) and recruited the hell out of Chicago.

Interesting comments.  Not sure what the answer is.  Here in my backyard, USC for a longtime was considered a second tier school until Dr. Sample took over and really kicked into high gear.  It's now routinely a top 30 school in the nation.  I think it can be done, but your comments about the Midwest and who our consumer is might be on to something.  Here in So. Cal, USC could do this, go head to head with UCLA academically and pull it off.  USC has tremendous resources to pull it off.

UC Irvine has done the same thing....when I chose to go to MU it was between UCSD, UC Irvine and MU...today, UCSD and UC Irvine are both top 50 schools (UCSD also a top 10 public university in the US), but that wasn't the case 25 years ago when I was selecting between those three.  It is possible to raise the profile, but your comments have me thinking how possible it is where we are located and the resources are out disposal. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Aspirations are fine and dandy, however, as a commercial entity, is it better for MU to try to go head to head for fewer students with BC, UND or Gtown, all with significantly better research facilities and higher endowments, or to be the best of the next tier?  In the end, MU is an engineering, law and a medical services school.  The Eastern elite will be lining up to travel to Milwaukee versus being in the exciting hubs of Boston and DC I am sure.  

This is why Pilarz's vision is mismatched for the Midwest. He really doesn't understand his base Midwest Catholic consumer, or the school of firsts.  Hispanics will be the number one demographic of kids in the near future, for example, and unlike the baby boomers who as parents went to college in high numbers, many parents of future students will not have gone to college.  This vision is only about an academic aspiration, but it isn't linked to why it makes reasonable business sense.  A real miss, IMO.

Wild understood what Marquette's core brand was and who the school's consumers were, raised MU to the best of the next tier, raised the recruiting profile out east via the Big East, understood what the market advantaged majors were, also had MU positioned as one of the most affordable private schools (believe it or not Topper) and recruited the hell out of Chicago.

Ah, the Wisconsin inferiority complex comes out.  The Midwest is second tier (especially Milwaukee) and it's folly to try and be anything but that.  So just recruit Hispanic kids from Chicago and be done with it!

How about these formerly second tier schools from 25 to 30 years ago (current USN ranking)?  Why can't MU aspire to join this group in (or near) the the top 50?  

St. Louis - Wash U (#14)
Houston - Rice #17)
Atlanta - Emory (#20)
Pittsburgh - Carnegie Mellon (#23)
Winston- Salem - Wake Forest (#27)
Rochester - Rochester (#33)
Cleveland - Case Western (#37)
Bethlehem - Lehigh (#38)
Troy - Rensselear Poly (#41)
NYC - Yeshiva (#46)
New Orleans - Tulane (#51)
NYC - Fordham (#58)

[GGGG]

Ah, the Wisconsin inferiority complex comes out.  The Midwest is second tier (especially Milwaukee) and it's folly to try and be anything but that.  So just recruit Hispanic kids from Chicago and be done with it!

How about these formerly second tier schools from 25 to 30 years ago (current USN ranking)?  Why can't MU aspire to join this group in (or near) the the top 50?  

St. Louis - Wash U (#14)
Houston - Rice #17)
Atlanta - Emory (#20)
Pittsburgh - Carnegie Mellon (#23)
Winston- Salem - Wake Forest (#27)
Rochester - Rochester (#33)
Cleveland - Case Western (#37)
Bethlehem - Lehigh (#38)
Troy - Rensselear Poly (#41)
NYC - Yeshiva (#46)
New Orleans - Tulane (#51)
NYC - Fordham (#58)

They can certainly aspire to join them.  But outside of Fordham, Marquette has a significantly smaller endowment than any of those schools you list.  MU's is about $450M...Fordam's about $580M...the rest are over $1B.

And one of the questions that Blackheart brings up is a good one.  Why does MU need to significantly increase it's academic profile?  What about its core mission?  How about the growing Catholic population that is increasingly Hispanic and likely first-generation?  Can you serve them in this new model?  Do you even want to?

This isn't a race where those ranked highest win a prize.  It's about being the best institution you can be while being true to your mission.

[Tugg Speedman]

They can certainly aspire to join them.  But outside of Fordham, Marquette has a significantly smaller endowment than any of those schools you list.  MU's is about $450M...Fordam's about $580M...the rest are over $1B.

And one of the questions that Blackheart brings up is a good one.  Why does MU need to significantly increase it's academic profile?  What about its core mission?  How about the growing Catholic population that is increasingly Hispanic and likely first-generation?  Can you serve them in this new model?  Do you even want to?

This isn't a race where those ranked highest win a prize.  It's about being the best institution you can be while being true to your mission.

Which comes first, academic reputation or endowment size? 

I think all you that cite endowment size as a constraint are confusing cause and effect.