Jason Collins

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This story is everywhere.    I had to turn off  Mike and Mike this morning.   Why can't people keep their personal lives to themselves?   Respect for all is important, but the "movement" uses stories like this as a promotion tool.   Watching my six kids go through school ... I'm now seeing some really confused kids walking the halls.  It's getting to the point where if a kid goes  a few months without a date he starts to  wonder if he might be gay.   And,  other kids say they are gay because it's almost a fad now. There are some leaders  who want to grow the movement, and stories like this help to do that among these confused  adolescents, and the media is happy to oblige.

Every time Mickleson wins, he has his kids run onto the green and greet him.  

I don't have kids. I don't want kids. I don't like kids. I wish he would quit shoving his family in my face and keep his personal life to himself.

[MerrittsMustache]

Do you believe 100% of gays didn't choose to be gay?

Collins says he didn't choose to be gay. But why do some find it hard to believe that there are a number of people that simply choose to be gay? Even if you think there are people that are 'born gay', why would you think there are not those who just decide to be gay?  

What's the motivation to decide to become gay? Not being ridiculed enough in HS? Strong desire to be mocked by bigots?

[Hards Alumni]

This story is everywhere.    I had to turn off  Mike and Mike this morning.   Why can't people keep their personal lives to themselves?   Respect for all is important, but the "movement" uses stories like this as a promotion tool.   Watching my six kids go through school ... I'm now seeing some really confused kids walking the halls.  It's getting to the point where if a kid goes  a few months without a date he starts to  wonder if he might be gay.   And,  other kids say they are gay because it's almost a fad now. There are some leaders  who want to grow the movement, and stories like this help to do that among these confused  adolescents, and the media is happy to oblige.

Thanks bud, this was hilarious.  What you don't know is that the kids don't think it is a big deal.  And why should they?  It isn't.

Kudos to Jason Collins.  This wasn't a financial decision, this was a courageous thing to do.  I'd be shocked if he played another minute in the NBA, not because of his sexual preference, but because of his age/ability.  Might he make some money off of this?  Probably.  Was that the intent behind his announcement?  Probably not.

What a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of homosexuals live their lives as a lie.  Imagine not being able to tell your coworkers or friends or family something as simple as who your significant other is.  Imagine the fear that goes through these people everyday.  I have a very close friend who came out to everyone, but refuses to come out to her bible thumping born again parents because she knows what they would do.  Homosexuals aren't afraid of the people who accept them (and obviously society has gotten a lot more tolerant over the last two decades), but of the people that they love, and who love them, who WON'T accept them.  They're afraid of the people who will say terrible things, do terrible things and that teach their children that homosexuals are gross, sinners, etc.

I'm not going to place Jason Collins in the Jackie Robinson territory, because he isn't a transcendent player.  He was simply a courageous man who decided that the time was right to be himself in front of the world.  And for that he deserves some respect, because a lot of people (straight, gay, or whatever) are simply to afraid to be themselves because of the fear of what other people might think of them.

[Pakuni]

Do you believe 100% of gays didn't choose to be gay?

Collins says he didn't choose to be gay. But why do some find it hard to believe that there are a number of people that simply choose to be gay? Even if you think there are people that are 'born gay', why would you think there are not those who just decide to be gay?  

Well, what difference does it make? Let's assume for sake of argument that you're correct, and that some people choose to be gay. Now what? Should people who choose to be gay be treated differently than those who are born that way? Differently than those who choose to be straight (and should we assume that since some choose to be gay, some also choose to be straight)? Should we create some sort of test to determine the genetic homosexuals from the choice homosexuals?
I guess I'm missing the point. Even if you're correct - and I don't think you are - so what?

[GGGG]

Do you believe 100% of gays didn't choose to be gay?

Collins says he didn't choose to be gay. But why do some find it hard to believe that there are a number of people that simply choose to be gay? Even if you think there are people that are 'born gay', why would you think there are not those who just decide to be gay?  

I believe the vast majority of gays do not choose to be gay.  

[Lennys Tap]

Right. I agree with you. But the whole country isn't like California. This is a big deal for a lot of people. Just because you live in a more open-minded area doesn't lessen its importance for everyone else.

Exactly. The (yawn) "not much of a problem where I live so it must not be much of a problem" is, at best, very lazy thinking - on all issues.

[Tugg Speedman]

Do you want them to have anal sex in front of a judge or something?

This is exactly the problem, and has been for years.  When it is in your interest, just say you're gay and then you become a "protected class."  And yes it happens (i.e., landlord goes to evict someone and then they announce their gay and accuse the landlord of discriminating).

So expanding the "rights" of LBGT is a slippery slope as those that believe it is in their interest will claim they are gay merely to take advantage of these rights.

[Hards Alumni]

This is exactly the problem, and has been for years.  When it is in your interest, just say you're gay and then you become a "protected class."  And yes it happens (i.e., landlord goes to evict someone and then they announce their gay and accuse the landlord of discriminating).

So expanding the "rights" of LBGT is a slippery slope as those that believe it is in their interest will claim they are gay merely to take advantage of these rights.

That is extremely ignorant.  Your example doesn't happen.  And if it does, the landlord only has to show the reasons that the person is being evicted.  Didn't they pay their rent?  Were they destroying the rental unit?  Were they doing illegal things inside?  You are some sort of moron if you think that simply saying, "I'm gay!" is some sort of free pass to get out of a legal problem.  Get real.

[GGGG]

This is exactly the problem, and has been for years.  When it is in your interest, just say you're gay and then you become a "protected class."  And yes it happens (i.e., landlord goes to evict someone and then they announce their gay and accuse the landlord of discriminating).

So expanding the "rights" of LBGT is a slippery slope as those that believe it is in their interest will claim they are gay merely to take advantage of these rights.

Hards pretty much hit it on the head.  With every post, your POV get's more and more ignorant.  Apparently no minorities can get evicted from an apartment. 

It must be *great* to be a Hispanic lesbian....you can live anywhere you want for free!!!

[Tugg Speedman]

I believe the vast majority of gays do not choose to be gay.  

Exactly, you believe.  That is the problem, their is no proof, just conflicted research driven by agendas (similar to the Climate change debate).  Being a minority, one's sex, a handicap are readily identifiable traits that you do not get to choose.  Their is no evidence of a "gay gene" so the debate is whether being gay is purely voluntary.

If it is voluntary, then no special rights should be given.

[Pakuni]

So expanding the "rights" of LBGT is a slippery slope as those that believe it is in their interest will claim they are gay merely to take advantage of these rights.

Adam Sandler movies are not documentaries.

[Tugg Speedman]

That is extremely ignorant.  Your example doesn't happen.  And if it does, the landlord only has to show the reasons that the person is being evicted.  Didn't they pay their rent?  Were they destroying the rental unit?  Were they doing illegal things inside?  You are some sort of moron if you think that simply saying, "I'm gay!" is some sort of free pass to get out of a legal problem.  Get real.

Guess you have never been a landlord.  And, I guess you did not listen to the debate about gay marriage because the definition and proof of gay was a big topic.  If you're going to extend rights to a protected class, then you better be able to prove someone qualifies for that class.  How does one do that?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So expanding the "rights" of LBGT is a slippery slope as those that believe it is in their interest will claim they are gay merely to take advantage of these rights.

What percentage of people are pretending to be gay to obtain "additional rights"?

[Hards Alumni]

Guess you have never been a landlord.  And, I guess you did not listen to the debate about gay marriage because the definition and proof of gay was a big topic.  If you're going to extend rights to a protected class, then you better be able to prove someone qualifies for that class.  How does one do that?

I don't need to be a landlord to know how the legal system works.  Your comment makes about as much sense as Ners saying that I don't know basketball because I never played high school basketball.   Look dude, I know you're trying to have this argument, but being a minority doesn't entitle you to get around the legal system.  Usually, it works the other way around.

You've made up some statement that is totally ignorant and you're going to stick to it.  Its fine, but I really doubt anyone is going to side with you on this one.

[tower912]

Jack Tripper.     I am enjoying the microcosm that is this discussion.   IMO, it has absolutely no impact on me.   It may impact my children, future grandchildren, nieces and nephews, and their friends.   Those who are gay may have an easier time than did previous generations.   One can only hope.  

[Pakuni]

Exactly, you believe.  That is the problem, their is no proof, just conflicted research driven by agendas (similar to the Climate change debate).  Being a minority, one's sex, a handicap are readily identifiable traits that you do not get to choose.  Their is no evidence of a "gay gene" so the debate is whether being gay is purely voluntary.

If it is voluntary, then no special rights should be given.

Correct, there is no "gay gene," but there is evidence that homosexuality is "epigenetic," i.e. the way in which our genes express themselves in a given environment. That is not something we can consciously choose.

[GGGG]

Exactly, you believe.  That is the problem, their is no proof, just conflicted research driven by agendas (similar to the Climate change debate).  Being a minority, one's sex, a handicap are readily identifiable traits that you do not get to choose.  Their is no evidence of a "gay gene" so the debate is whether being gay is purely voluntary.

If it is voluntary, then no special rights should be given.

I used the word "I believe.." because that is the specific question I was asked.  But if you honestly think that there is no proof of a hereditary connection, then you are a moron.  (Just because something is hereditary, doesn't make it genetic.)

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/12/11/scientists-may-have-finally-unlocked-puzzle-of-why-people-are-gay

As the article states "The hereditary link of homosexuality has long been established."  If you think that this is driven by some sort of "agenda" and doesn't have its roots in clear scientific method, then you should just turn in your Marquette degree because you apparently didn't learn much.

[Tugg Speedman]

What percentage of people are pretending to be gay to obtain "additional rights"?

What percentage of the population is actually Gay?

This say 4%, with half that group being bi-sexual (mainly women)
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/williams-institute-report-reveals-million-gay-bisexual-transgender/story?id=13320565#.UX_YQ0o3lvg

So that means less than 2% of the public is outright gay.  

Thus story also says less than 2% of the population is gay but Most Americans think it is 10% to 25%.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

Why does the average American think the gay population is 12 times higher than reality?  Maybe because they believe lots of people that are gay are really not.  Could it be some of them lead the public into thinking they are gay because it suits their purpose?



Back to the point of this thread ....

The NBA has 300 players, so national averages suggest their are 5 gay players right now.  One came out.  And if you believe the NBA would attract a lower number of gay players than the general population, their might only be 1 or 2 more gay players.  This is why no one has come out before.  We wildly overinflated the number of LBGT that actually exist.

[Coleman]

Exactly, you believe.  That is the problem, their is no proof, just conflicted research driven by agendas (similar to the Climate change debate).

Yes, you're right. There is no scientific evidence supporting global warming or that homosexuality is not a choice. Just stop before you embarass yourself even more.

Also, I'm not usually one to correct people on grammar, but because every other post in this thread belongs to you and you keep doing it, it's THERE. Not their.

The most depressing part of this entire thread is that you hold a parchment from the same school that I do.

[tower912]

The 10% number is from Kinsey's studies.

[Tugg Speedman]

The 10% number is from Kinsey's studies.

That study was from 1948

This says 3.4%, with a 1% margin for error and the majority say they are bi-sexual.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/gallup-poll-only-3-4-percent-of-us-adults-identify-as-lgbt-83545/

[MUfan12]

Now waiting for the first NBA owner to come out... maybe when Kohl sells the Bucks?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What percentage of the population is actually Gay?

This say 4%, with half that group being bi-sexual (mainly women)
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/williams-institute-report-reveals-million-gay-bisexual-transgender/story?id=13320565#.UX_YQ0o3lvg

So that means less than 2% of the public is outright gay.  

Thus story also says less than 2% of the population is gay but Most Americans think it is 10% to 25%.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

Why does the average American think the gay population is 12 times higher than reality?  Maybe because they believe lots of people that are gay are really not.  Could it be some of them lead the public into thinking they are gay because it suits their purpose?



Back to the point of this thread ....

The NBA has 300 players, so national averages suggest their are 5 gay players right now.  One came out.  And if you believe the NBA would attract a lower number of gay players than the general population, their might only be 1 or 2 more gay players.  This is why no one has come out before.  We wildly overinflated the number of LBGT that actually exist.

I'm not really following the logic here.

Americans over-estimate the number of gay people, so that means a lot of people are pretending to be gay?

Just from personal experience, I don't know anybody that has pretended to be gay, nor have I read about that being a problem. I guess it could be, but I really haven't seen/read much about it.

Are there studies or articles discussing how there are a lot of people pretending to be gay? Is it really a big problem?

[Pakuni]

I'm not really following the logic here.

Americans over-estimate the number of gay people, so that means a lot of people are pretending to be gay?

Just from personal experience, I don't know anybody that has pretended to be gay, nor have I read about that being a problem. I guess it could be, but I really haven't seen/read much about it.

Are there studies or articles discussing how there are a lot of people pretending to be gay? Is it really a big problem?

A big problem? It's an epidemic!
But I do wonder, why would someone pretend to be gay to their friends, family, co-workers and - most importantly - landlords, but then fess up on a survey?

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm not really following the logic here.

Americans over-estimate the number of gay people, so that means a lot of people are pretending to be gay?

Just from personal experience, I don't know anybody that has pretended to be gay, nor have I read about that being a problem. I guess it could be, but I really haven't seen/read much about it.

Are there studies or articles discussing how there are a lot of people pretending to be gay? Is it really a big problem?

Yes, the problem with gay marriage is expanded rights of property and estate transfers with tax implications to same sex partners.  So, as I noted before, businesspeople could "marry" to take advantage of the better tax treatment.  Yes, male/female businesspeople can and do that now.  But same sex will vastly expand this potential abuse.

This was part of the gay marriage debate at the Supreme court ... if they extend rights and privileges to gays, how does not prove they are gay?

For instance, it LBGT becomes true minority status (and don't fool yourself this is where we are going), then will universities have quotas for LBGT students?  Will kids seeking to get into an elite university "just say" they are LBGT to increase their chances of acceptance?  How does one prove they are LBGT?