The NBA

[klyrish]

I have to be honest, I used feel this way too.

BUT, you have to realize that the guys are sooooo good that a lot of the stuff just looks "different" when compared to college ball.

For the most part, they are executing at a VERY high level, and it takes some time to realize that. It did for me.   

I love college ball WAAAAAY more than NBA... but the teams in the NBA are incredible, and I'm not just talking about dunks. I'm talking about the minutia where they run pick and role in certain spots on the floor just to set-up a certain match-up or expose a certain player. It sounds easy, but it's HARD to do it well.

Fair enough. Maybe I need to watch again with that in mind.

On the same token, I find it hard to take an organization seriously when they so blatantly disrespect their fanbase time and time again. For example: Spanish week (or whatever they call it) where teams recognize and celebrate Hispanic culture and heritage and wear Spanish jerseys.

Spanish jerseys for their teams which apparently are named after things with no natural Spanish word for them. Teams like:

Los Bulls
El Heat
Los Spurs

Stuff like that, the drastic difference between NBA and NCAA rules/play-styles and the worship of the superstar have made me view the NBA as the adult-equivalent to Saturday morning cartoons: 90% of the reason they're on is to sell merchandise. Toys for cartoons and, for the NBA, jerseys that are "Spanish" because your Dwyane Wade HEAT jersey isn't the same as a Dwyane Wade EL HEAT jersey.

The NBA brand is cheap and sleazy...more concerned about selling you stupid sh1t you don't need (and stuff that they should be embarrassed about having on shelves) than playing the game.

That's how I see it anyway. Then again, I'm almost unanimously disinterested in pro sports of any kind...I enjoy watching them but "having a team" and living/dying by the way they play is something I just can't grasp. Nothing makes me care less about a team than knowing the guys on it are making millions of dollars and don't care about anything other than getting paid (the NFL is fine because of fantasy football...otherwise I wouldn't bother watching that either).

[RJax55]

On the same token, I find it hard to take an organization seriously when they so blatantly disrespect their fanbase time and time again. For example: Spanish week (or whatever they call it) where teams recognize and celebrate Hispanic culture and heritage and wear Spanish jerseys.

Spanish jerseys for their teams which apparently are named after things with no natural Spanish word for them. Teams like:

Los Bulls
El Heat
Los Spurs

Stuff like that, the drastic difference between NBA and NCAA rules/play-styles and the worship of the superstar have made me view the NBA as the adult-equivalent to Saturday morning cartoons: 90% of the reason they're on is to sell merchandise. Toys for cartoons and, for the NBA, jerseys that are "Spanish" because your Dwyane Wade HEAT jersey isn't the same as a Dwyane Wade EL HEAT jersey.

The NBA brand is cheap and sleazy...more concerned about selling you stupid sh1t you don't need (and stuff that they should be embarrassed about having on shelves) than playing the game.

Really?? A major reason you dislike the NBA is because of Latino Night.... Talk about grasping at straws.

That's not to say the NBA doesn't have issues... Things like poor ownership, small market to big market differences, end-of-year tanking are major issues for the league. However, its hard to your points seriously, when the complaints are so petty in nature.

[MarsupialMadness]

Fair enough. Maybe I need to watch again with that in mind.

On the same token, I find it hard to take an organization seriously when they so blatantly disrespect their fanbase time and time again. For example: Spanish week (or whatever they call it) where teams recognize and celebrate Hispanic culture and heritage and wear Spanish jerseys.

Spanish jerseys for their teams which apparently are named after things with no natural Spanish word for them. Teams like:

Los Bulls
El Heat
Los Spurs

Stuff like that, the drastic difference between NBA and NCAA rules/play-styles and the worship of the superstar have made me view the NBA as the adult-equivalent to Saturday morning cartoons: 90% of the reason they're on is to sell merchandise. Toys for cartoons and, for the NBA, jerseys that are "Spanish" because your Dwyane Wade HEAT jersey isn't the same as a Dwyane Wade EL HEAT jersey.

The NBA brand is cheap and sleazy...more concerned about selling you stupid sh1t you don't need (and stuff that they should be embarrassed about having on shelves) than playing the game.

That's how I see it anyway. Then again, I'm almost unanimously disinterested in pro sports of any kind...I enjoy watching them but "having a team" and living/dying by the way they play is something I just can't grasp. Nothing makes me care less about a team than knowing the guys on it are making millions of dollars and don't care about anything other than getting paid (the NFL is fine because of fantasy football...otherwise I wouldn't bother watching that either).

You don't think there is a natural Spanish word for bull?  Or heat?  Cmon man.  They are proper nouns, which is why they aren't translated.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Fair enough. Maybe I need to watch again with that in mind.

On the same token, I find it hard to take an organization seriously when they so blatantly disrespect their fanbase time and time again. For example: Spanish week (or whatever they call it) where teams recognize and celebrate Hispanic culture and heritage and wear Spanish jerseys.

Spanish jerseys for their teams which apparently are named after things with no natural Spanish word for them. Teams like:

Los Bulls
El Heat
Los Spurs

Stuff like that, the drastic difference between NBA and NCAA rules/play-styles and the worship of the superstar have made me view the NBA as the adult-equivalent to Saturday morning cartoons: 90% of the reason they're on is to sell merchandise. Toys for cartoons and, for the NBA, jerseys that are "Spanish" because your Dwyane Wade HEAT jersey isn't the same as a Dwyane Wade EL HEAT jersey.

The NBA brand is cheap and sleazy...more concerned about selling you stupid sh1t you don't need (and stuff that they should be embarrassed about having on shelves) than playing the game.

That's how I see it anyway. Then again, I'm almost unanimously disinterested in pro sports of any kind...I enjoy watching them but "having a team" and living/dying by the way they play is something I just can't grasp. Nothing makes me care less about a team than knowing the guys on it are making millions of dollars and don't care about anything other than getting paid (the NFL is fine because of fantasy football...otherwise I wouldn't bother watching that either).

This is all well and good, but none of this should really impact your ability to see the quality of ball being played.

Strip the emotion and preconceptions out of it. Just watch what is actually occurring.

[klyrish]

You don't think there is a natural Spanish word for bull?  Or heat?  Cmon man.  They are proper nouns, which is why they aren't translated.

Heat is a proper noun? Bulls is a proper noun?

No, they are not. The Chicago Bulls is a team name and proper noun. "Bulls" is not.

Regardless, if you're going to make that argument then they shouldn't be doing the "Spanish" jerseys at all then. But then that's a missed revenue opportunity and we all know, making money > playing basketball.

Really?? A major reason you dislike the NBA is because of Latino Night.... Talk about grasping at straws.

That's not to say the NBA doesn't have issues... Things like poor ownership, small market to big market differences, end-of-year tanking are major issues for the league. However, its hard to your points seriously, when the complaints are so petty in nature.

You're missing the point. That was an example of how corrupt the NBA is. They don't care about the game, they care about money and that's it. It's hard for me to care about a game when it seems like both the players and owners/people in charge care only about how much money they're all making.

[shiloh26]

Heat is a proper noun? Bulls is a proper noun?

No, they are not. The Chicago Bulls is a team name and proper noun. "Bulls" is not.

Regardless, if you're going to make that argument then they shouldn't be doing the "Spanish" jerseys at all then. But then that's a missed revenue opportunity and we all know, making money > playing basketball.
You're missing the point. That was an example of how corrupt the NBA is. They don't care about the game, they care about money and that's it. It's hard for me to care about a game when it seems like both the players and owners/people in charge care only about how much money they're all making.

It's only corrupt if it purports to be anything else than what it is.  The NBA doesn't pretend to be about anything but its product and the money that flows from it.  Based on this logic, the NCAA, with its multi-billion revenues carried there under the guise of "amateurism" would be far more corrupt.

[klyrish]

Oh, I'm not saying the NCAA isn't extremely corrupt. It is. Disgustingly so. Despite that, though, I just actually enjoy watching NCAA basketball.

[MarsupialMadness]

Oh, I'm not saying the NCAA isn't extremely corrupt. It is. Disgustingly so. Despite that, though, I just actually enjoy watching NCAA basketball.

So pretty much the whole corrupt arguement means nothing, you just enjoy college basketball better. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'd like to see the NBA get rid of a few rules, as well.

1) The ability to advance the ball to midcourt on a timeout at the end of the game is just ridiculous. 

Basically they are saying to the one team "you worked hard to score a basket, now we're going to reward the team you just scored on to allow them to go 52 feet instead of 94 feet, save them precious time".  Only in the last two minutes, which makes it more absurd.  Can you imagine in football if in the last 2 minutes you could call timeout and get an extra 10 or 20 yards just for doing that?  Or in the 9th inning, they move the fences in 100 feet.  Ridiculous rule trying to gin up end of game buzzer beaters and theatrics without benefiting the team that just had to work so hard to actually score.

2) Free throws should be 1 and 1...these are pros, why do they get 2 automatics

3) Traveling rules should be "may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball."  (Oh wait, that is the rule in the NBA....miracle when it is called)

[MarsupialMadness]

Free throws should be 1 and 1?  Not sure I could get on board with that.  Then aren't you are rewarding the team who fouled?

[mugrad99]

I don't watch the NBA much...but are these rules still in effect:
a.Free throws: 3 to make 2....
b.If a team has not reached its limit of accumulated fouls, the first team foul in the last two minutes results in possession by the team fouled, and all subsequent fouls result in two free throws..

That being said...my 2 cents...It's obvious that the NBA has better talent, but I like watching the college game for 3 reasons:
vested interest in watching my alma mater play
Coaches have more of an impact-more types of offenses, defenses than your NBA games
The imperfection of the game, seeing more boneheaded plays, missed layups etc (hard to put into words...just my feelings)

[Coleman]

Chicos, agree with you on points 1 and 3.

I think the lack of traveling calls is the most egregious example of the NBA officiating people take exception to. Along with carrying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSZGCfKvlTI

[GuyIncognito]

I think you will find the majority of those here who despise the NBA are Bucks fans that have become disenfranchised with the NBA due to their club's horrid performances in recent years and lack of any superstars on their team.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Free throws should be 1 and 1?  Not sure I could get on board with that.  Then aren't you are rewarding the team who fouled?

It works fine in the NCAA for 1 and 1 until you reach the bonus. I'd like to see something very similar.

[Lennys Tap]

It works fine in the NCAA for 1 and 1 until you reach the bonus. I'd like to see something very similar.

1 and 1 is the bonus. 10 fouls get you to the double bonus.

Just so I have this clear. You love the 1 and 1 because it allows teams to foul intentionally and have an easier time coming from behind, but you hate the idea of taking possession in the front court following a time out because it gives a team an easier time coming from behind. Something tells me that no matter what you would "like" the "fair"college rule and "hate" the "unfair" pro rule even if they were reversed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

1 and 1 is the bonus. 10 fouls get you to the double bonus.

Just so I have this clear. You love the 1 and 1 because it allows teams to foul intentionally and have an easier time coming from behind, but you hate the idea of taking possession in the front court following a time out because it gives a team an easier time coming from behind. Something tells me that no matter what you would "like" the "fair"college rule and "hate" the "unfair" pro rule even if they were reversed.

That's what I meant...the double bonus.

I find it more than a bit interesting that a college kid, when they reach the bonus has to make the first to earn the second, yet a pro gets 2 shots automatically after reaching the bonus. Then again, why should we be surprised since this is the same league that used to give the pros three shots to make two.  Let me repeat that, the PROFESSIONALS were given three free throw shots so they could make two...a "do over" in case they missed it.  While we are at it, the pro also gets 6 fouls, another joke.

Now, the comparison between that and the midcourt inbound rule and the bonus...please.  They are not even close to the same.  We're talking real estate, moving the ball up 52 feet because why?  Because a timeout was called?  That is a joke.  If you make your free throws down the stretch, even in a bonus situation, you still can put away your opponent.  On the midcourt rule, you have given up half the court because of no fault of your own....just because.  A. HUGE. DIFFERENCE.

[jesmu84]

Free throws should be 1 and 1?  Not sure I could get on board with that.  Then aren't you are rewarding the team who fouled?

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but he means shooting fouls should be 1 and 1, assuming you're not in the double bonus.

[GGGG]

First off, why didn't you end your statement with IMO?   

Let's try it this way, Lenny.  In college, you can run an offense like the Swing or the Princeton offense that relies on a lot of passing, cuts, etc that typically requires more time.

Except no one really runs those offenses any longer.  Most of the college offenses these days are dribble drive or some variation that includes a pick and roll.  The diversity that you suggest just doesn't really exist.

[GGGG]

College bball actually has defense in it.

Oh dear God...please tell me this is in teal.  You don't think the NBA players play defense???

[GGGG]

Facts? I've watched plenty of NBA games with lazy "defense"...barely jumping for shot block attempts, no press whatsoever (full-, three-quarters- or even half-court). I can't think of a single time that I've seen a trap set in an NBA game. I can't think of a time I've ever seen a team play a single inbound the way Louisville plays them (tenacious, full-court press).

Do those things happen? I'm sure they do. Just so infrequently that they may as well not. And that NBA defense that's so incredible yet somehow allows games to go well over 100 points? So without defense, games would be 230-217? Please. Throwing your hand up 5 feet away from someone taking a shot doesn't constitute as defense.

The NBA has gotten so lazy and so focused on superstars it has forgotten its roots. I try every season to get into the NBA because basketball is my favorite sport without a doubt and every year, I'm bored by the second week of the season because no one on the court seems to care enough about the game to actually play it. And all the rule changes from college designed to get the game higher-scoring and to let players get away with murder are just ridiculous.

I find the NBA a joke and a mockery of basketball.

This has got to be one of the most moronic statements I have read about basketball...and frankly it puts everything you say on the subject of basketball in doubt.

The reason that you don't see presses or traps is not because they are lazy...but because they don't work at that level.  Pitino tried it when he was coaching - and it failed miserably because the ball handling and passing is 800 times better than it is in college.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Except no one really runs those offenses any longer.  Most of the college offenses these days are dribble drive or some variation that includes a pick and roll.  The diversity that you suggest just doesn't really exist.

That's just not true

[flash]

I prefer college basketball to the NBA, but it is games such as this one that make me realize that the NBA is better basketball.   36-33 Final score? thats just pathetic.  
 
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=310700275

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but he means shooting fouls should be 1 and 1, assuming you're not in the double bonus.

Actually, shooting fouls should be same, 2 shots (or 3 on a 3 point attempt).  It's the bonus vs double bonus where I question things.  The NBA doesn't have a double bonus, they go right into the bonus and reward 2 shots.  I'd rather see them go into a 1 and 1 and institute a double bonus criteria, or just keep all non-shooting fouls at 1 and 1 with no double bonus.

[klyrish]

This has got to be one of the most moronic statements I have read about basketball...and frankly it puts everything you say on the subject of basketball in doubt.

Good. I want to add nothing but fear, uncertainty and doubt to your life...especially in regards to basketball.

I hate the NBA. I stand by my opinions and what I've said in this thread and it's highly unlikely you or anyone else is going to change my mind. Deal with it. Or don't. I honestly care about it as much as any given NBA game on any given night.

[GGGG]

Good. I want to add nothing but fear, uncertainty and doubt to your life...especially in regards to basketball.

I hate the NBA. I stand by my opinions and what I've said in this thread and it's highly unlikely you or anyone else is going to change my mind. Deal with it. Or don't. I honestly care about it as much as any given NBA game on any given night.

Well if you want to continue to be ignorant...and think stuff like "laziness = not pressing" as a legitimate basketball thought...go ahead.