When does the Crean legacy fade away?

[Galway Eagle]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

[keefe]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

Buzz did indeed have a rebuilding effort. Crean's treachery cost us the stars of the incoming class and some others in years out. Buzz was fortunate that his first year had all the seniors returning but we saw the impact of Crean's treason over the next few years when we had Cubillan and Acker starting. It is a credit to Buzz that he kept things moving forward. Tremendous job by a gifted leader. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take?  

Crean had 3 "early" exits, though one was as an 8 seed vs a 9 seed and one of our star players in cast.

We lost as a 7 to a 10.

We lost as a 5 to a 12

When we lost to Stanford, we were a 6 seed and supposed to lose to them as they were the 3 seed...82-81 in OT.

When we made the Final Four, we weren't even supposed to get that far, but upset Pitt (2 seed) and Kentucky (1 seed)


Treachery....I wonder if Keefe ever left a job for a better job.  LOL.  That's what Crean did, that's what coaches do...was Buzz treacherous for leaving New Orleans?  According to Keefe...yes.

[Galway Eagle]

Crean had 3 "early" exits, though one was as an 8 seed vs a 9 seed and one of our star players in cast.

We lost as a 7 to a 10.

We lost as a 5 to a 12

When we lost to Stanford, we were a 6 seed and supposed to lose to them as they were the 3 seed...82-81 in OT.

When we made the Final Four, we weren't even supposed to get that far, but upset Pitt (2 seed) and Kentucky (1 seed)


Treachery....I wonder if Keefe ever left a job for a better job.  LOL.  That's what Crean did, that's what coaches do...was Buzz treacherous for leaving New Orleans?  According to Keefe...yes.

I didn't mean early as we were the favorites.  I meant early as in we left and came home a very short while later.  Though picking apart that wasn't remotely the point of the question. 

[Galway Eagle]

Buzz did indeed have a rebuilding effort. Crean's treachery cost us the stars of the incoming class and some others in years out. Buzz was fortunate that his first year had all the seniors returning but we saw the impact of Crean's treason over the next few years when we had Cubillan and Acker starting. It is a credit to Buzz that he kept things moving forward. Tremendous job by a gifted leader. 

Sorry I just meant like a rebuilding effort where we have awful seasons.  Al, Crean, and O'Neil all had them.  I suppose Deane did to but I consider making the NIT finals at least the best of a bad situation. 

[keefe]

Not sure I would say Crean left a legacy at Marquette.

[Galway Eagle]

Ok not trying to turn this into another is Crean good or not thread I wanted to know when Crean is just a thing of the past that was decent but nothing outstanding like we look at O'Neil and Deane. 

[keefe]

Sorry I just meant like a rebuilding effort where we have awful seasons.  Al, Crean, and O'Neil all had them.  I suppose Deane did to but I consider making the NIT finals at least the best of a bad situation. 

Precisely the point and much to Buzz Williams' tremendous credit. Crean's April Fool's Outrage caused several of the best recruits to bail on Marquette. And yet Buzz managed to build something better. There was no dip in performance as happened at Marquette in 2004 when a Final Four participant failed to make The Dance and suffered the humiliation of playing in the NIT.

I would offer this season as a compelling case in point. Marquette lost two of its best ever players to the Show and once again the pundits forecast doom. But Buzz Williams not only managed to disprove the experts by winning but he took Marquette to the top rung of America's premiere College Basketball Conference. There was no rebuilding period with Buzz Williams.

[keefe]

Ok not trying to turn this into another is Crean good or not thread I wanted to know when Crean is just a thing of the past that was decent but nothing outstanding like we look at O'Neil and Deane. 

As long as we continue to witness outrages such as we saw last week at the Crisler Arena the man shall remain topical. If the entire sports erupted in dismay and horror why would the Marquette faithful not feel embarrassed by the man's disgusting behavior?

[tower912]

Crean worked his butt off to market Marquette.   His legacy was that he got MU into conversations they hadn't been in for a long time.     Which was being a year-in year-out good team.  Buzz has continued, built, and improved upon that.    Deane was a good XO coach, but his recruiting meant that no one ever saw MU has a team that could make a run.   KO wasn't at MU long enough to build a foundation for long-term success.   Crean put in that foundation.   

[jficke13]

Crean will fade away as soon as idiots on this board and elsewhere stop paying so much freaking attention to him.

[Avenue Commons]

Crean will fade away as soon as idiots on this board and elsewhere stop paying so much freaking attention to him.

Amen. You keep picking at that scab and the wound will never heal.

[Aughnanure]

Kansas fans still hate Roy Williams, but Bill Self helps.

[connie]

Whatever "legacy" there was is gone.  There is a history, and I can't see why we would want to forget that.  The anger, bitterness and other feelings are personal, and as long as he continues to be the shallow, self-promoting douche he is (ie-his post-Michigan antics) I don't see that abating for awhile.

[Hards Alumni]

The dislike for Crean here will probably disappear when we've gotten to a final four, or when he gets fired at IU.

Until then, there will always be people here to laugh at him and rip him, and there will be others who will rush to his defense like he is their only child.

[tower912]

Kansas fans still hate Roy Williams, but Bill Self helps.

Pretty sure Kentucky fans still say mean things about Pitino, too. 

[Sylvester78]

A con artist who did in fact do some good things at Marquette.
The flameout in the coming weeks will be adorable

[Dr. Blackheart]

First of all, Crean is a tireless self-promoter...a program builder. This is great when he is rebuilding, but he can be his own worst enemy when he is winning.  He has no volume control on the publicity, but this is what drives him...and he has done it well....but it is also alienating when he hits his wear out level.

As a basketball coach, he is flawed.  Great at game prep and complexity as seen by the number of plays in his play book.  But in game situations, he tends to panic and his teams reflect this.  He has not proved much in this area and you can tell he is insecure about this...and this is an area where his peers don't respect him.

As a recruiter, he is hot and cold.  He really doesn't like that part of the game, and in that regard he may be better fit for the pro game.  The Indiana job interested him as he felt that the recruits would just sign up because it is I4..and in fact after a rocky start, they are. But, he doesn't like part of the job, he is not a gym rat, and in fact, he isn't very good at it naturally one on one, talking to the mom's, etc.  He does run a clean program generally, and is good with the academics.

To summarize, he loves us talking about him as it keeps his name in the paper.  He is flawed and out there in the press, so we will talk about him as he is polarizing.  He has the #1 preseason team, can he drive that bus home like he desperately wants to personally?   Who doesn't want to watch that?

[MUMonster03]

The problem is Crean can't just be dismissed as much as everyone wishes he could.

The man laid the ground work for a program that up until recently was only known as a school which was really good back in the 70's and won a championship with one of the biggest personalities to ever coach.

We had been spinning our wheels for years with an occasional tournament appearance and like it or not Crean came in, changed the tires, and set the car down the right path. If he had stayed who knows if it would have gotten better, stayed the same, or fallen off but what he did to put us back on the map and start spending on the program again can not be ignored.

Buzz has taken that car, tuned the engine, ad if he can get us another final four or a championship will have it right back to where it was running in the 70's.

[brewcity77]

Never 

[hairy worthen]

Crean will fade away (at least on this board) when certain posters stop incessently defending him and qualifying the currrent regimes acomplishments.

 Is it just coincidence that when a certain poster was banned the crean threads slowed way down. When said poster returns, the Crean threads increase.

Creans legacy is bringing the program back to prominence, but not taking it to the next level. Even if he had stayed, I beleive he had reached his ceiling with MU. He wasn't able or willing to take it to the next level like Buzz has.

[Marqevans]

Ok not trying to turn this into another is Crean good or not thread I wanted to know when Crean is just a thing of the past that was decent but nothing outstanding like we look at O'Neil and Deane. 

When Marquette beats Indiana in the NCAA tournament?

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

already faded for me

[tower912]

First of all, Crean is a tireless self-promoter...a program builder. This is great when he is rebuilding, but he can be his own worst enemy when he is winning.  He has no volume control on the publicity, but this is what drives him...and he has done it well....but it is also alienating when he hits his wear out level.

As a basketball coach, he is flawed.  Great at game prep and complexity as seen by the number of plays in his play book.  But in game situations, he tends to panic and his teams reflect this.  He has not proved much in this area and you can tell he is insecure about this...and this is an area where his peers don't respect him.

As a recruiter, he is hot and cold.  He really doesn't like that part of the game, and in that regard he may be better fit for the pro game.  The Indiana job interested him as he felt that the recruits would just sign up because it is I4..and in fact after a rocky start, they are. But, he doesn't like part of the job, he is not a gym rat, and in fact, he isn't very good at it naturally one on one, talking to the mom's, etc.  He does run a clean program generally, and is good with the academics.

To summarize, he loves us talking about him as it keeps his name in the paper.  He is flawed and out there in the press, so we will talk about him as he is polarizing.  He has the #1 preseason team, can he drive that bus home like he desperately wants to personally?   Who doesn't want to watch that?

Well put.   Can't argue with much.   I was over his leaving within weeks of him going.   Now, I just want MU to do better than IU.   This hurts because I was a huge IU fan during the Bobby Knight era.   Loved that motion offense and man defense.   Now I just want them to lose. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Kansas fans still hate Roy Williams, but Bill Self helps.

Disagree.  Immature fans hate Roy Williams...people with emotional issues.  Roy did a lot for KU.  Some people can't get over the fact that people leave jobs, schools, etc.  Butt hurt is strong with some people....mostly on message boards.