Gottleib rips Crean

[MU82]

At halftime of this afternoon's Indiana-Michigan game on CBS, Doug Gottleib said:

"You know why your starters are your starters? 'Cause they're better than your bench players. Someone needs to tell Tom Crean that. They have a 10-3 lead and he starts subbing. He takes Victor Oladipo, Yogi Ferrell and Cody Zeller out of the game. That's why Michigan recovered. He's oversubbing! Tom Crean subbed his way out of the lead. He does this time and again. He has to stop it ... if he wants to win a national championship."

To which Greg Gumbel said: "Tom Crean on line 3 for you, Doug."

Funny stuff.

Of course, Gottleib probably wouldn't care for Buzz's starting lineup or substitution patterns, either.

[denverMU]

Of course, Gottleib probably wouldn't care for Buzz's starting lineup or substitution patterns, either.

If he did, I would agree.  I especially dislike Buzz's habit of subbing for a player who makes a free throw for an old fashion three point play.

[chapman]

What would happen if you put Gottlieb and Boeheim in a room together?  Can't fathom the result of that much cynical whining in one place.

[CTWarrior]

The only thing that bugs me about rampant substitutions is when the coach takes out the hot hand, and Buzz doesn't do that much.  He's got 10 guys he trusts and it seems to me he experiments with combinations so that by the end of the game he knows the groupings he wants on the floor.  Using players the way he does gives him the flexibility to improve matchups.  I know we complain about certain guys starting, etc.  But if Juan Anderson, for example, is going to play 10 minutes, what difference does it make if the first 3 or 4 minutes are among those 10 minutes?

[Goose]

He didn't mean it Chico's. Your guy is still responsible for all good in college hoops.

[tower912]

My wife, the hoosier fan, agreed with Gottlieb.   I told her that MU doesn't necessarily start its best 5 and she was surprised.   Coach's have their reasons for their line ups and rotations.    Plus, agreeing with Gottlieb because he criticizes Crean is just dumb.    I am not a Gottlieb fan. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

He didn't mean it Chico's. Your guy is still responsible for all good in college hoops.

I like Buzz a lot more than Crean.  I just don't like the hypocrisy here, and it is rampant.  For example, ripping on Gottleib and everything he says for the last 5 years and all of a sudden he's golden on this stuff?  Please.

Maybe Crean can send Doug a credit card that isn't stolen and he can buy a Big Ten championship shirt with IU on it.

Go Warriors.  Go Hoosiers.  Go Jayhawks.  F Gottlieb.

[denverMU]

The only thing that bugs me about rampant substitutions is when the coach takes out the hot hand, and Buzz doesn't do that much.

He does that all the time.  That's what I was talking about.  He constantly takes out players who make the shot, are fouled, and make the free throw.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Maybe they should ask why Beilein was left with no time outs at the end?  His team was tired and missing free throws while IU had gas in the tank.  Major choke job and Crean played it by the textbook to get back in it.  If IU had lost that game, it would have been 3 out of the last four, with their #1 seed all but gone. This loss may help MU in the end as well.

Never-the-less, the non-call on a "by the book" intentional call will be the topic of the day.  

[GGGG]

I think Gottleib is wrong.  You have set rotations until a blatant need arises or when you need match ups at the end of the game.  Games are more marathons than sprints.

He does that all the time.  That's what I was talking about.  He constantly takes out players who make the shot, are fouled, and make the free throw.

And I'm not exactly sure what is wrong with that.

[Golden Avalanche]

Maybe they should ask why Beilein was left with no time outs at the end?  His team was tired and missing free throws while IU had gas in the tank.  Major choke job and Crean played it by the textbook to get back in it.  If IU had lost that game, it would have been 3 out of the last four, with their #1 seed all but gone. This loss may help MU in the end as well.

In the end, the non-call on a by the book intentional call will be the topic of the day.  

That wasn't a by the book intentional call.

[Dr. Blackheart]

That wasn't a by the book intentional call.

The push in the back first?  Clark agreed.

[Golden Avalanche]

The push in the back first?  Clark agreed.

And the only three people who's opinion matter didn't agree. No one will be writing about that "non-call"

By the way, Gottlieb praised Crean's substitution strategy in the second half.

The Crean-UM assistant tet a tet will be talked about.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The push in the back first?  Clark agreed.

Clark, OSU alum and if IU loses OSU gets a share of the title agreed?  Cool.

Those three guys wearing zebra shirts didn't agree.

[GGGG]

Clark, OSU alum and if IU loses OSU gets a share of the title agreed?  Cool.

Those three guys wearing zebra shirts didn't agree.

Or maybe Clark simply disagreed.  Always some sort of conspiracy with you....

[Dr. Blackheart]

The Crean-UM assistant tet a tet will be talked about.

I missed that...what happened?

[Lennys Tap]

Never-the-less, the non-call on a "by the book" intentional call will be the topic of the day.  

It was indeed textbook.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I missed that...what happened?

classy in victory and defeat.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The push in the back first?  Clark agreed.

Go back and listen to what Clark then says after the refs make their call and he reviews it again

"He was actually making a terrific effort to get to make a play on the ball.  He reaches in, gets him on the arm and he does make a play on the ball"

[ChicosBailBonds]

Or maybe Clark simply disagreed.  Always some sort of conspiracy with you....

Always?  LOL.

Clark comes around at the end and says he made a play on the ball after first saying the opposite.

At any rate, the idea that it was "TEXTBOOK" is hilarious....textbook would mean it was called and it wasn't.  Some bitter fans here today.

[jesmu84]

The Crean-UM assistant tet a tet will be talked about.

https://mobile.twitter.com/clubtrillion/status/310885643783901184


https://mobile.twitter.com/clubtrillion/status/310887145055350788

[wadesworld]

https://mobile.twitter.com/clubtrillion/status/310885643783901184


https://mobile.twitter.com/clubtrillion/status/310887145055350788

Haha Titus is spot on.  That's hilarious.  Someone who is an IU alum and has obviously had interactions with coach Crean going through handshake lines, etc.  He's obviously heard stories that the average fan wouldn't have about a lot of different coaches and players, and clearly he does not like the guy at all.  Can't wait to watch Chicos defend the crap outta Crean.  Maybe he'll Twat at Titus about how wrong he is and how he can't possibly know what other coaches think about Crean without having ever interacted with him...oh wait.  Or maybe he is one of those people already.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I like Buzz a lot more than Crean.  I just don't like the hypocrisy here, and it is rampant.  For example, ripping on Gottleib and everything he says for the last 5 years and all of a sudden he's golden on this stuff?  Please.

Maybe Crean can send Doug a credit card that isn't stolen and he can buy a Big Ten championship shirt with IU on it.

Go Warriors.  Go Hoosiers.  Go Jayhawks.  F Gottlieb.

Do you go on Jayhawk websites and rip on the Hoosier fans, like you go on Hoosier sites and rip on Marquette's?

[NavinRJohnson]

I like Buzz a lot more than Crean.  I just don't like the hypocrisy here, and it is rampant.  For example, ripping on Gottleib and everything he says for the last 5 years and all of a sudden he's golden on this stuff?  Please.

Show me the post where someone said he was golden. Seems to me most, including the original, still suggesting he's a pud. The post was simply pointing out what he said, and wentin to suggest he would likely say the same about Buzz, so what exactly is this hyporcisy you speak of?

[NavinRJohnson]

https://twitter.com/jim_mcevoy/status/310896270992609280

Hilarious.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The Crean-UM assistant tet a tet will be talked about.

Jeff Meyer, assistant under Kelvin Sampson at IU and part of the staff that brought the program down.  He was Liberty's coach for many years.

[MU86NC]

At halftime of this afternoon's Indiana-Michigan game on CBS, Doug Gottleib said:

"You know why your starters are your starters? 'Cause they're better than your bench players. Someone needs to tell Tom Crean that. They have a 10-3 lead and he starts subbing. He takes Victor Oladipo, Yogi Ferrell and Cody Zeller out of the game. That's why Michigan recovered. He's oversubbing! Tom Crean subbed his way out of the lead. He does this time and again. He has to stop it ... if he wants to win a national championship."

To which Greg Gumbel said: "Tom Crean on line 3 for you, Doug."

Funny stuff.

Of course, Gottleib probably wouldn't care for Buzz's starting lineup or substitution patterns, either.

Gottleib is a tool...

[MU82]

Crean got the last laugh; he won. Game, set, match. I don't think Gottleib is stupid, but I do think he is a pud who at times is combative just for the sake of it.

Just as Buzz has an idea of the pulse of his team, when to play somebody and when not to, when somebody needs a rest, etc., I'm assuming Crean does, too. I haven't seen Indiana enough this season to know any differently, and I don't remember this being a huge problem when Crean was at MU.

Couple of thoughts on a very entertaining game:

-- I ref, and I would have called that an intentional foul. Completely hammered him from the back, didn't go for the ball, grabbed him with one arm and raked him with another.

-- Michigan lost because three of its four leading scorers and FT shooters -- Burke, Hardaway and Rice -- flat-out choked on the line. Out of a possible 6 points, they delivered 1. Shocking, I know, that it happens to other schools besides Marquette.

-- I don't like putting out no rebounders at all when your guy shoots FTs. Instruct them not to foul, but at least have them out there in case the ball takes a crazy bounce, which actually happened on Hardaway's miss.

-- Trey Burke is a hell of a player but he has some excellent teammates whom he needs to trust more.

[keefe]

https://twitter.com/jim_mcevoy/status/310896270992609280

Hilarious.

Great stuff!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Great stuff!

That is pretty good.  No argument from me.

Good to see Michigan's best team in 20 years finish 5th, however.  Have to admit, I enjoyed it.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

Always?  LOL.

Clark comes around at the end and says he made a play on the ball after first saying the opposite.

At any rate, the idea that it was "TEXTBOOK" is hilarious....textbook would mean it was called and it wasn't.  Some bitter fans here today.

First of all, I spent the majority of my post defending Crean....how that is bitter, I don't know.  I am actually happy for him and the climb back for the program. More so, his victory helps Marquette and its seeding so I was cheering for IU.  

Second, I didn't use the word "textbook" on purpose...I used "by the book" instead as obviously, the refs decided not to insert themselves in that situation to decide the outcome.  They took their time, reviewed it and decided to go with the status quo. Why Clark changed his wording I don't know...perhaps he should have just said the refs decided not to insert themselves there. The IU kid pushed Robinson in the back as he was airborne on the break away, and then added a wild swipe at the ball. Kudos to him for selling it.

Enjoy your win.

[Lennys Tap]

Couple of thoughts on a very entertaining game:

-- I ref, and I would have called that an intentional foul. Completely hammered him from the back, didn't go for the ball, grabbed him with one arm and raked him with another.

-- Michigan lost because three of its four leading scorers and FT shooters -- Burke, Hardaway and Rice -- flat-out choked on the line. Out of a possible 6 points, they delivered 1. Shocking, I know, that it happens to other schools besides Marquette.

-- I don't like putting out no rebounders at all when your guy shoots FTs. Instruct them not to foul, but at least have them out there in case the ball takes a crazy bounce, which actually happened on Hardaway's miss.

-- Trey Burke is a hell of a player but he has some excellent teammates whom he needs to trust more.

We saw the same game. Agree on all four points.

[keefe]

That is pretty good.  No argument from me.

Good to see Michigan's best team in 20 years finish 5th, however.  Have to admit, I enjoyed it.  

The horror...the horror...



2013 Big East Men's Basketball Champion



2013 Ivy League Men's Basketball Champion



2013 Big Ten Chokers

[TallTitan34]

Chicos, I never knew you were a Kansas fan.  Are there other schools you cheer for beside these three?  Or did you sweep this year with conference championships?

[ChicosBailBonds]

First of all, I spent the majority of my post defending Crean....how that is bitter, I don't know.  I am actually happy for him and the climb back for the program. More so, his victory helps Marquette and its seeding so I was cheering for IU.  

Second, I didn't use the word "textbook" on purpose...I used "by the book" instead as obviously, the refs decided not to insert themselves in that situation to decide the outcome.  They took their time, reviewed it and decided to go with the status quo. Why Clark changed his wording I don't know...perhaps he should have just said the refs decided not to insert themselves there. The IU kid pushed Robinson in the back as he was airborne on the break away, and then added a wild swipe at the ball. Kudos to him for selling it.

Enjoy your win.

Thank you, yes, enjoying it.

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to Lenny on the "Textbook" comment.  The bitter comment wasn't to you either, nor was I quoting you on either of those responses.     And yes, there were PLENTY of bitter fans here.  They don't have to worry, IU isn't going to win it all.  Duke is the best team with the most talent.  Should be a wide open tournament.  They will have their chance to start 10+ threads on how IU's downfall (whenever they lose next) will be because of their head coach and everything good about their accomplishments will be despite of him.  LOL.

Incidentally, the refs looked at the monitor, they apparently were fooled not only in real time but also on the replay with multiple views...great selling job.  Look again, he was not pushed in the back...sure he had a hand on his back but wasn't pushed.  The wild "swing" hit his arm.

Still waiting to hear how the Michigan player's beeline to Zeller wasn't a flagrant earlier in the game?  Maybe it was a makeup call.  I don't know.  Seemed to me that Zeller got hacked all game, but they were letting the guys play.  That was a big boy basketball game and fun to watch. 

[tower912]

Michigan played like it was a January bowl game.   

[keefe]

Michigan played like it was a January bowl game.   

It is tough work being a Michigan fan...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Weird that no one stated that it was eliminated last year.  No such thing as an intentional foul anymore, only flagrant 1 or flagrant 2


 To the rule book, 4-29-2-c-6:

    A flagrant 1 personal foul shall be a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to: . . . Illegal contact with an elbow that occurs above the shoulders of an opponent when the elbows are not swung excessively per 4.36.7a.

The rule was changed prior to last season to remove the "intent" from an intentional foul. And it's been used to clean up overly physical play.

[Lennys Tap]

Good to see Michigan's best team in 20 years finish 5th, however.  Have to admit, I enjoyed it.  

Tied for 4th actually. Something you'd call a lie, but I'll go with mistake.

[CTWarrior]

He does that all the time.  That's what I was talking about.  He constantly takes out players who make the shot, are fouled, and make the free throw.

I don't consider one three point play the hot hand.  I think, particularly in the second half, he leaves the guys he thinks will be the most successful in the game.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Weird that no one stated that it was eliminated last year.  No such thing as an intentional foul anymore, only flagrant 1 or flagrant 2

True...intentional is now under flag 1.  Again, the contention was the push in the back while airborne on a clear breakaway.  I have watched it seven times too and clearly see that.  Michigan got the free throws, they should have also got the ball, IMO too.

Immaterial if they shot their free throws. 

[mugrad2006]

Chicos, I never knew you were a Kansas fan.  Are there other schools you cheer for beside these three?  Or did you sweep this year with conference championships?

Creighton, Belmont, Florida Gulf Coast, Miami...

[Avenue Commons]

See also: http://indiana.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=942&fid=726&style=1

[keefe]

Weird that no one stated that it was eliminated last year.  No such thing as an intentional foul anymore, only flagrant 1 or flagrant 2


 To the rule book, 4-29-2-c-6:

    A flagrant 1 personal foul shall be a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to: . . . Illegal contact with an elbow that occurs above the shoulders of an opponent when the elbows are not swung excessively per 4.36.7a.

The rule was changed prior to last season to remove the "intent" from an intentional foul. And it's been used to clean up overly physical play.

Don't some coaches instruct their players to act as if they have been elbowed? ESPN should have an ESPY for Best Dramatic Performance For The Elbow Not Thrown

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, I never knew you were a Kansas fan.  Are there other schools you cheer for beside these three?  Or did you sweep this year with conference championships?

Those three are my alma maters.  Only other school I cheer for is UCLA since I grew up going to their games.

Hoping for a

IU
MU
KU
UCLA

Final Four.  Epic

[TallTitan34]

Those three are my alma maters.  Only other school I cheer for is UCLA since I grew up going to their games.

Didn't UCLA win the Pac12?  4 for 4!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Don't some coaches instruct their players to act as if they have been elbowed? ESPN should have an ESPY for Best Dramatic Performance For The Elbow Not Thrown

Don't some posters here insist they hear their coach claiming that he was instructing to do so, even going so far as to say that if they put on their Bose headphones they can hear it....only to be found to be completely wrong.  LOL

 

[MUDPT]

Since the thread was locked yesterday, the ladder at MSG was to do something with the rims and the shot clock, NOT to cut down the nets.  The one by the St. John's end, was as high as the top of the shot clock.  MU went back to the locker room, pretty soon after the trophy presentation.

[MU B2002]

Wades,
Titus isn't an IU alum.  He matriculated at OSU.

[wadesworld]

Wades,
Titus isn't an IU alum.  He matriculated at OSU.

Yup, I know that.  In his Twitter conversation that was posted he explains that he grew up in Indiana and loved the Hoosiers, that his dad, brother, and sister all went to IU.

[Dawson Rental]

Those three are my alma maters.  Only other school I cheer for is UCLA since I grew up going to their games.

Hoping for a

IU
MU
KU
UCLA

Final Four.  Epic

Three alma maters, three conference champions.  Coincidence?  Or are you the most unethical booster in the history of the NCAA?

[keefe]

Since the thread was locked yesterday, the ladder at MSG was to do something with the rims and the shot clock, NOT to cut down the nets.  The one by the St. John's end, was as high as the top of the shot clock.  MU went back to the locker room, pretty soon after the trophy presentation.

Exactly. Because Buzz knows that the heavy lifting has yet to begin. The trophy ceremony was a great and appropriate way in which to celebrate a fine accomplishment. But this team is not yet finished - performance in the BE Tournament will determine seeding for the Dance. And that is where the real prize is. Great stuff so far but the true tests are yet to come. May God watch over and bless them.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Three alma maters, three conference champions.  Coincidence?  Or are you the most unethical booster in the history of the NCAA?

LOL.   Yes, definitely been bankrolling some shady activities...squirmy   

[77ncaachamps]

IU should win the whole dang thing in Chicago, but they play the winner of IL vs MIN - both of whom have beaten the Hoosier.s

[Aughnanure]

If he did, I would agree.  I especially dislike Buzz's habit of subbing for a player who makes a free throw for an old fashion three point play.

If we had players like Oladipo and Zeller to sub, then yes. But we don't. So this criticism is not relevant. Did Buzz "oversub" Crowder and DJO last yr?

[Aughnanure]

LOL.   Yes, definitely been bankrolling some shady activities...squirmy  

Who do you root for if they all played each other? Seriously curious.

[The Process]

See also: http://indiana.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=942&fid=726&style=1

That layout makes my head hurt.

[MU B2002]

Yup, I know that.  In his Twitter conversation that was posted he explains that he grew up in Indiana and loved the Hoosiers, that his dad, brother, and sister all went to IU.

My bad, I thought you called him an alum. 

[mu-rara]

My wife, the hoosier fan, agreed with Gottlieb.   I told her that MU doesn't necessarily start its best 5 and she was surprised.   Coach's have their reasons for their line ups and rotations.    Plus, agreeing with Gottlieb because he criticizes Crean is just dumb.    I am not a Gottlieb fan. 

Bill Neary.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who do you root for if they all played each other? Seriously curious.

Easy

Marquette 1
IU 2
KU 3

MU always comes first.  Its happened a few times for me.  Great Alaska Shootout, MU over IU.  Final Four, MU played KU but I was there in my MU colors sitting in the MU section. When MU lost, I cheered for KU against Syracuse.

[keefe]

Bill Neary.

Allie McGuire

[slingkong]

Those three are my alma maters.  Only other school I cheer for is UCLA since I grew up going to their games.

Hoping for a

IU
MU
KU
UCLA

Final Four.  Epic

Sports bigamists are like chip multi-dippers. They're horrible people.

[Lennys Tap]

Sports bigamists are like chip multi-dippers. They're horrible people.

I agree. Real fans are all in. Anything less is meaningless.

[paddyquakes]

Not sure if this is redundant, but Crean gets ripped in the Chi. Sun Times today in a full page piece by Herb Gould. Just warms me somewhere

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sports bigamists are like chip multi-dippers. They're horrible people.

All in to all my alma maters.  It's hard on the budget, buying all these championship t-shirts. 

[tower912]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/18832843-419/indianas-tom-crean-is-a-terrific-coach-but-has-rubbed-some-the-wrong-way.html

Not anything new or earth shattering.

[klyrish]

Sports bigamists are like chip multi-dippers. They're horrible people.

I want to get a shirt made with that on it. What up, Cafe Press.

[Lennys Tap]

All in to all my alma maters.  It's hard on the budget, buying all these championship t-shirts. 

I'm sure Brigham Young told all of his wives the same thing. Thank God you didn't do a semester abroad at Loyola/Rome, you'd be gettin' up at all hours to watch their soccer team.

[keefe]

All in to all my alma maters.  It's hard on the budget, buying all these championship t-shirts. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm sure Brigham Young told all of his wives the same thing. Thank God you didn't do a semester abroad at Loyola/Rome, you'd be gettin' up at all hours to watch their soccer team.

Some people can multi-task, others can't.