Notre Dame Dumping the ACC for the C7?

[The Process]

It would be reported, but I'm not sure how many people would really pay attention or understand what's really going on.  If the C7 would work on spinning the story as the rightful heirs to the name and the continuity of the conference, I don't think most people would care.

Judging from my need to pull out the sock puppets, it is a little complicated, yes.

However, do you actually think the 4-letter sports "news" leader would allow for that spinning you mention to be succesful?  Hell hath no fury like a network scorned.  They'll make sure that everyone and their mothers know that ND would be leaving them and would be doing everything they could to spin it as instability.

Do we *really* need that...?  I say no.  Not for a one-year thing.

[Abode4life]

Judging from my need to pull out the sock puppets, it is a little complicated, yes.

However, do you actually think the 4-letter sports "news" leader would allow for that spinning you mention to be succesful?  Hell hath no fury like a network scorned.  They'll make sure that everyone and their mothers know that ND would be leaving them and would be doing everything they could to spin it as instability.

Do we *really* need that...?  I say no.  Not for a one-year thing.

Your "sock puppets" are only making this more complicated than it has to be. 

Obviously, no one here on this board is directly privy to the conversations that are happening among the ADs and presidents of the C7.  Who cares what the perceptions would be if Notre Dame left the Big East (C7 next year) or the new conference that UConn, Cinci, etc are creating.  (By creating i mean the name, members, etc)

What should matter is as follows:
1.  All the reports agree on the C7, Xavier, and Butler joining next year.
2.  Some reports say that Georgetown and some of the other eastern schools would prefer Richmond or others to keep it more east coast centric.  MU (and maybe others?) would like to see Creighton added.  Countless other threads have argued the benefits of the other teams.
3.  If there is a disagreement among the members (could be Big IF) on what the conference membership should/will look like next year, how does adding Notre Dame hurt?  It allows us an 18 game schedule, another decent team to help the tourney resume, and there could be the possibility of adding them long term. (Very slim, but still a possibility)

I'd much rather make sure we put a quality Basketball product out there the first year, and then take the time to make sure we add other quality programs with the same interests and goals that are going to add value to the conference as a whole.  If that means Notre Dame can help that first year so be it.
   

[Warriors10]

I'd much rather make sure we put a quality Basketball product out there the first year, and then take the time to make sure we add other quality programs with the same interests and goals that are going to add value to the conference as a whole.  If that means Notre Dame can help that first year so be it.

Take time to make sure we add the right quality members?  This has been in the works for a long time now, how much time does the C7 need to choose the right members?  They've had 5 months ever since they voted on leaving, but discussions have been in the works for longer than that.  No way you vote to leave without a short list.

Also, does adding Creighton over ND really affect our SOS and RPI (assuming Creighton and ND play the same conference schedule in the C7/X/BU) that much for one year?  Name recognition does not equate better SOS and RPI.

[real chili 83]

I don't want ND for one year because there's no incentive for the current C7 schools. Why add a school that doesn't really want to be there for just one year? What is it that's appealing about ND's basketball program anyway? Their lack of a national championship, one Final Four appearance or having only 2 Sweet 16 appearances since 1982? Throw in Swarbrick's arrogant as hell comment ("if they ask us, we'd think about it") and the C7 should tell ND to go pound sand.

Merit, that comment stuck out to me too.  Bet he was picking his nose when he said it.

Goose nailed it too.  One year looks like we are deperate.  This league has brand.  They need us more.  Period.

[The Process]

Your "sock puppets" are only making this more complicated than it has to be. 

I'd disagree, but that's your prerogative.  Bobby Brown style.

Obviously, no one here on this board is directly privy to the conversations that are happening among the ADs and presidents of the C7.  Who cares what the perceptions would be if Notre Dame left the Big East (C7 next year) or the new conference that UConn, Cinci, etc are creating.  (By creating i mean the name, members, etc)

What should matter is as follows:
1.  All the reports agree on the C7, Xavier, and Butler joining next year.
2.  Some reports say that Georgetown and some of the other eastern schools would prefer Richmond or others to keep it more east coast centric.  MU (and maybe others?) would like to see Creighton added.  Countless other threads have argued the benefits of the other teams.
3.  If there is a disagreement among the members (could be Big IF) on what the conference membership should/will look like next year, how does adding Notre Dame hurt?  It allows us an 18 game schedule, another decent team to help the tourney resume, and there could be the possibility of adding them long term. (Very slim, but still a possibility)

I find it funny when people here cling to the thought that ND might - no matter how slim of a chance - stick around if we bring them to the NBEAST.  They're not.

[The Process]

Take time to make sure we add the right quality members?  This has been in the works for a long time now, how much time does the C7 need to choose the right members?  They've had 5 months ever since they voted on leaving, but discussions have been in the works for longer than that.  No way you vote to leave without a short list.

Nailed. It.

That's why this whole discussion about ND as a 1-year bridge is moot IMO.  Not happening.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Never going to happen. When their NBC deal expires, ND will want (and get) their own channel, ala Texas.

Don't count on it as a slam dunk.  They might try, but the Texas experiment has been nothing short of ridiculous and has everyone in this industry completely up in arms.  There are entire conferences right now without distribution across the board, like Pac 12.  Many of us flat out won't carry it, and that's even with a CFO that is a Domer.   

[jficke13]

Don't count on it as a slam dunk.  They might try, but the Texas experiment has been nothing short of ridiculous and has everyone in this industry completely up in arms.  There are entire conferences right now without distribution across the board, like Pac 12.  Many of us flat out won't carry it, and that's even with a CFO that is a Domer.   

It was my understanding that even UT's station is struggling to fill content. Big? has many teams playing many football/basketball/hockey games that they can keep interesting stuff on every night. ND is just one team, how much can they really have to show people?

[Groin_pull]

It was my understanding that even UT's station is struggling to fill content. Big? has many teams playing many football/basketball/hockey games that they can keep interesting stuff on every night. ND is just one team, how much can they really have to show people?

That can keep showing that crappy movie Rudy—that would kill a few hours.

[real chili 83]

+1

I realize that most of the ND hate is emotional with no focus but if we leave and ND stays behind ... the old BE will say we are Louisville (as they cannot jump to the ACC either) Uconn, Cincy, ND, Memphis, Temple and they will argue that next year that will be a better basketball conference than the New BE.  They will argue ND stayed behind because they chose the better BBall conference for next year.  Is that a wrong argument?  With ND in the old BE might be.

Take ND with us and the old BE loses one of these schools and it greatly lessens that argument.  Louisville leaves the following year and that argument is dead.

So yes, a good case can be made not taking ND makes us more unstable (if I'm understanding this argument correctly).  Especially in the critical first year of a new conference.

Another, yes, our dislike of ND is based on emotion.  Guilty as charged.

And yes, your love of ND is based on emotion....and that's ok too.  Just don't use that as a veil for justifying your pro ND arguments. (Pot (me) calling kettle black).

Bottom line is we can argue both points of view with our own selective facts.  After all, that's half the fun!

If ND wants to get on board, man up ND.  The C7 took a bold step to set up the new league.  There was NO SECRET that this was being considered when ND made their move to the acc.  Hell, even some on Scoop called this about a year ago!

Otherwise ND, go away.

[MUMonster03]

If Louisville doesn't leave early for he ACC the old BEast won't be that bad of a conference. You would still have Cincy, UConn, Louisville, and adding Memphis and Temple, maybe USF bounces back but I doubt it.

I don't see ND doing anything but staying or going to the ACC. They have too sweat of a deal since this coming yea is still a BCS year and the bowl tie ins.

[Tugg Speedman]

My guess is ND does not to leave early ( for the ACC).  They want the Maryland lawsuit to play out (over exit fees) and see if the floodgates open and the ACC has a mass exodus.

Another guess, if the ACC as an exodus before ND officially joins, they can back out without an exit fee.  After they join they pay to get out.

So ND wants in the C7.  If the ACC has a mass exodus and it becomes a version of BE/CUSA football, they stay.  If it holds together another year, they jump.

[The Process]

My guess is ND does not to leave early ( for the ACC).  They want the Maryland lawsuit to play out (over exit fees) and see if the floodgates open and the ACC has a mass exodus.

Another guess, if the ACC as an exodus before ND officially joins, they can back out without an exit fee.  After they join they pay to get out.

So ND wants in the C7.  If the ACC has a mass exodus and it becomes a version of BE/CUSA football, they stay.  If it holds together another year, they jump.

... and just how fast do you think the Maryland lawsuit will play out...?  The shot clock for the 13/14 year is ticking down...

[Tugg Speedman]

Again a request. ... What does conference stability mean?  The last few years the BE has been a revolving door of teams leaving, coming, not coming (TCU) yet this has not hurt us one bit.

In the end a conference is an easy way to get a good schedule.  Get the best SOS you can, even if you rent a team for one year.  Rent another one the next year.  It does not matter much as you think as long as the teams are good.

So, define conference stability and show me an example of where instability hurt a team.  Even Cincy, a team on the losing end of everything bagged a big time recruit Jermaine Lawrence.

Conference stability is something people say to sound smart but does not mean anything.

[Tugg Speedman]

... and just how fast do you think the Maryland lawsuit will play out...?  The shot clock for the 13/14 year is ticking down...

If ND stays, they get another year to see what happens.  If their is a mass exodus, it should happen by next spring.

[Abode4life]

Nailed. It.

That's why this whole discussion about ND as a 1-year bridge is moot IMO.  Not happening.

I am positive we have some very smart people thinking about this and getting through the negotiations, but we don't even have a commissioner right now.  I would bet that the vast majority of the focus has been getting out of the Big East, setting up a tv deal, and yes, partly also figuring out about membership. 

Hey, maybe I am wrong and we have detailed plans.  My only point on including Notre Dame for a year, is then it gives us a ten team league without any discussion and allows an easier 18 game schedule.  I would much rather have that than rush into putting together a hodgepodge league to try and get to 10 or 12 teams right away.  I think when people say "We shouldn't let Notre Dame in because of their arrogance", or whatever else is just silly.  Maybe all the reports are wrong, and there really is no discussion on whether to only include Creighton, or add SLU, Dayton/Richmond.  I think the likelihood of ND joining the C7 in the league full time is slim to none, but if it makes the transition easier, and there is that possibility, then we shouldn't just dismiss it.

[HoopsMalone]

I like the nine teams in the new BE, assuming that Butler and X come.  SLU is the next best in my opinion, but not great.  Dayton, Creighton, Richmond, VCU, or any talk of the west coast schools are all weak options in my opinion. 

ND for one year is not great either, but maybe it gives the BE a chance to let the dust settle.  It may be the right choice just because none of the other choices stick out as great ones.  The BE has a good thing going, but maybe we should just try to put a quality product on the floor before expanding.  Start small and expand, and the BE might as well put a stable product out there for one year.

[Benny B]

For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently?  Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?

[real chili 83]

For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently?  Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?

It's the one year thing for me.

[hairy worthen]

For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently?  Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?

Having nd would be a huge positive, but not for just one year that would be a huge negative imo. I cant keep up with the many threads on this. Was there some mention that the c7 has no interest in adding nd for only a year?

[MUMonster03]

For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently?  Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?

I don't want them period. I do not want to have anything to do with any school that plays division 1 football. (And I grew up in Indiana and was raised a ND football fan)

ND doe not want to have anything to do with a conference for football. But without a conference tie in, if they are not in the BCS or the 4 team playoff, they are playing in a late December bowl game at best. Since no conference will let them have the tie ins without at least getting the ND brand for other sports they have to stay aligned with a conference that offers football.

[real chili 83]

Down in Florida this week on vacation. While on my 5 mile morning constitutional, an elderly gent stopped me, noticing MU Marquette shirt. He wanted to talk about MU in the "Jesuit 7".

He was most interested in Creighton and Gonzaga's chance of joining.

We finished the conversation on how ND was on the outside, looking in. All he could do is smile and say "isn't that funny, isn't that funny"!

[mu03eng]

I am more than happy to play them every year in non-conference but I don't want them in because of the football aspect.  At some point whether ND wants to admit it or not, they will have to join a conference for football.  I don't want that instability in the conference, that's what got us in this mess in the first place.

[icheights]

I really don't understand the argument that having ND for one year shows people that we need them more than they need us...ND will be fine without the NEAST (new big east) and we would be fine without them...

I think of anyone it makes ND look the worst that they are just flipping and flopping all over going from old big east to new big east to ACC...they are the unstable program looking for answers.

I picture ND like this: they are the really hot chick with just an awful personality

You take them out for a date, get as much out of them as you can, then kick them to the curb and never call them again...the NEAST would be using THEM.

I am not looking for name recognition, I am not looking for sustainability, I am just looking to use them for a year while the conference is in flux then send them on their way...

[hairy worthen]

I picture ND like this: they are the really hot chick with just an awful personality

You take them out for a date, get as much out of them as you can, then kick them to the curb and never call them again...the NEAST would be using THEM.

I am not looking for name recognition, I am not looking for sustainability, I am just looking to use them for a year while the conference is in flux then send them on their way...

But if you catch the clap in the process then it is not worth it