Hello Marquette fans!

[BustedDreams49]

I'm a SLU fan, and wondering what you guys think of SLU's chances to be added to the Big East. We are indebted to you for one Rick Majerus.

[uncle zeffy]

For very selfish reasons I hope SLU gets in. Moved down to St Louis a year and a half ago and am currently working on an MBA there.

SLU has really invested in basketball and the Chaif is a great place to catch a game. I really like how all the athletics are in a common area on the east side of campus.

[🏀]

I'll take SLU over Dayton, if that helps.

SLU is attractive as I would do a weekend roader to St. Louis.

[jsglow]

Welcome busted.  I'd think your chances are pretty good to be #11 or #12 starting in 2014.  Great game last weekend against Butler.  Be great to renew acquaintances as we Warriors remember you guys well from the Spoon days.

[BustedDreams49]

I did a couple roadies to Milwaukee for Cards/Brewers games, but haven't seen you guys in person up there. Would be a fun trip that isn't too hard on the Frequent Flier Miles.

[jficke13]

From the easy to go to/attractive place to visit an away game in STL sounds good to me.

[chapman]

If we go to 12 teams for 2014, as it appears will happen, SLU is in.  Hopefully Crews keeps them on the current trajectory, as they'll be an asset to the conference in that case.  Congrats on the soon-to-be A-10 regular season title.

[BustedDreams49]

If we go to 12 teams for 2014, as it appears will happen, SLU is in.  Hopefully Crews keeps them on the current trajectory, as they'll be an asset to the conference in that case.  Congrats on the soon-to-be A-10 regular season title.

The cool thing is that if SLU holds on, it will be the most difficult A-10 title anyone has won. I'd love to see Big East games at the 'Fetz, as well as a return to St. Louis from your Golden Eagles/Warriors.

[jficke13]

From the nostalgia files:

Back in CUSA days, when I was a wee little Warrior. I got to be a ball boy/sweat mop guy for a game. It was against SLU. It was the year you guys had Larry Hughes. He massacred us. Then good for us (not you), he went pro.

[BustedDreams49]

From the nostalgia files:

Back in CUSA days, when I was a wee little Warrior. I got to be a ball boy/sweat mop guy for a game. It was against SLU. It was the year you guys had Larry Hughes. He massacred us. Then good for us (not you), he went pro.

It only took us 12 years to get back to the tournament after 2000. Wow, that sounds bad, doesn't it?

[jficke13]

You know what, thinking about Larry Hughes slaughtering us, I say:

I don't care about whether SLU is the "best" team to add (however you want to measure that), though I do think there objectively a + rather than a - to the league... but I want another shot at 'em.

Bring on the Billikens.

[HoopsMalone]

I'd rank SLU at the top of who I'd want as the 10th team.

I'd rank the additions as follows:
-8- Butler- no brainer
-9- Xavier- no brainer
-10- SLU- great program in a nice market.  Makes geographic sense as there would then be 5 midwestern teams and 5 east coast teams.  They look like they have the skill and athletes to play in the Big East.  Only question mark is recruiting without Majerus.
-11- VCU- Virginia is a growing market.  Need east coast.  I hate to admit it as a Midwesterner, but east coast teams on average get more coverage.  It'd be good for the league to have a presence there.  
-12- Creighton- A little far geographically.  How good will they be when they don't have their coach's son?  They will have to start recruiting athletes.  MVC to the Big East is a lot bigger than CUSA to Big East was for us.  I'm really not as high on them as others are on this board.
-13- Richmond- Would duplicate VCU.  But if VCU doesn't work out, I'd add them.  
-14- Dayton- they don't add much from a TV market perspective when we already have Butler and Xavier.  

I really don't see the Big East as 7 midwestern schools and 5 east coast schools with all the reports of the BE only adding midwestern schools to get to 12.

I'd most want to add Xavier, Butler, and SLU and stop.  See how everything else shakes out with conference realignments.  Those other schools will still be there.  Creighton, VCU, Dayton, and Richmond are not going to form a conference with schools left behind later due to football.  

[Benny B]

What you guys think of SLU's chances to be added to the Big East.

99%

We are indebted to you for one Rick Majerus.

Just win the A-10 this year or get to the Sweet 16, and we'll call it even.

[MUMonster03]

From the nostalgia files:

Back in CUSA days, when I was a wee little Warrior. I got to be a ball boy/sweat mop guy for a game. It was against SLU. It was the year you guys had Larry Hughes. He massacred us. Then good for us (not you), he went pro.

This is one reason I like adding SLU, no the massacre part, but the history between the schools. We are already losing two rivals of close to 20 years, Cincy and Louisville, its nice to get one back and to continue building what we have with Georgetown and Nova from the last 8 years of play.

[BustedDreams49]

99%

Just win the A-10 this year or get to the Sweet 16, and we'll call it even.

We're getting right on that.

[jsglow]

From the easy to go to/attractive place to visit an away game in STL sounds good to me.

Absolutely.  Love the new on campus arena.  An 'all good' roadtrip.

[Eldon]

I'd rank SLU at the top of who I'd want as the 10th team.

I'd rank the additions as follows:
-8- Butler- no brainer
-9- Xavier- no brainer
-10- SLU- great program in a nice market.  Makes geographic sense as there would then be 5 midwestern teams and 5 east coast teams.  They look like they have the skill and athletes to play in the Big East.  Only question mark is recruiting without Majerus.
-11- VCU- Virginia is a growing market.  Need east coast.  I hate to admit it as a Midwesterner, but east coast teams on average get more coverage.  It'd be good for the league to have a presence there.  
-12- Creighton- A little far geographically.  How good will they be when they don't have their coach's son?  They will have to start recruiting athletes.  MVC to the Big East is a lot bigger than CUSA to Big East was for us.  I'm really not as high on them as others are on this board.
-13- Richmond- Would duplicate VCU.  But if VCU doesn't work out, I'd add them.  
-14- Dayton- they don't add much from a TV market perspective when we already have Butler and Xavier.  

I really don't see the Big East as 7 midwestern schools and 5 east coast schools with all the reports of the BE only adding midwestern schools to get to 12.

I'd most want to add Xavier, Butler, and SLU and stop.  See how everything else shakes out with conference realignments.  Those other schools will still be there.  Creighton, VCU, Dayton, and Richmond are not going to form a conference with schools left behind later due to football.  

VCU is public and people will be able to get financial data on the conference, no thanks.

Busted, check out this thread

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=35412.0

for some interesting takes and gauge MU enthusiasm for SLU

[Dawson Rental]

We're getting right on that.

Will Crews stick around after this year?  Is he still an interim Head Coach?  If he doesn't stick, will Biondi screw up the next hire?

[HoopsMalone]

VCU is public and people will be able to get financial data on the conference, no thanks.

Busted, check out this thread

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=35412.0

for some interesting takes and gauge MU enthusiasm for SLU

OK, well the point is I'd rather stay at 10 schools.  If the BE went beyond that, I think it's better to have an east coast school.  Just substitute Richmond for VCU then as a team that I think would be better than Creighton or Dayton.

I'm not sure how growing the pie to 12 teams, one of which is in Omaha and the other in Ohio where we already have Xavier, will help the overall take or improve the BE's per team cut of a TV deal.

[Coleman]

SLU is probably on the outside looking in if we stay at 10 (unlikely)

SLU is a no brainer if we go to 12 (very likely)


My individual opinion....

I think you guys would be a pretty good choice for our 11th or 12th member. I am a little worried about what happens after Majerus' players are gone. Its a big question mark. If he was still around it'd be a much easier choice. But I think even now you fit the profile.

A question for you...

What's the vibe of St. Louis right now? Are people jumping on the SLU bandwagon? Have they become a bigger story than Mizzou? Has Majerus acquired legendary status from the grave? I could see this being one of those very unique circumstances where Rick becomes a larger than life figure after death due to this year's team's success. Just wondering what the feeling is from the people there.

[BustedDreams49]

SLU is probably on the outside looking in if we stay at 10 (unlikely)

SLU is a no brainer if we go to 12 (very likely)


My individual opinion....

I think you guys would be a pretty good choice for our 11th or 12th member. I am a little worried about what happens after Majerus' players are gone. Its a big question mark. If he was still around it'd be a much easier choice. But I think even now you fit the profile.

A question for you...

What's the vibe of St. Louis right now? Are people jumping on the SLU bandwagon? Have they become a bigger story than Mizzou? Has Majerus acquired legendary status from the grave? I could see this being one of those very unique circumstances where Rick becomes a larger than life figure after death due to this year's team's success. Just wondering what the feeling is from the people there.

The city is getting behind the team like the Spoonball years. Rick Majerus has become the face of the school even with his death. SLU fans really are excited about what's in front of us. With regards to Mizzou, they are still riding the SEC bandwagon, but the gap is narrowing.

[LloydMooresLegs]

Really pulling for SLU.  Saw a game last year at the Chaif, and it is a fantastic place for high-end college ball.  Spent my high school days as a Junior Billiken and have lots of MU friends in town-- would love to have one more excuse to visit. 

[keefe]

The city is getting behind the team like the Spoonball years. Rick Majerus has become the face of the school even with his death. SLU fans really are excited about what's in front of us. With regards to Mizzou, they are still riding the SEC bandwagon, but the gap is narrowing.

[Dawson Rental]

The city is getting behind the team like the Spoonball years. Rick Majerus has become the face of the school even with his death. SLU fans really are excited about what's in front of us. With regards to Mizzou, they are still riding the SEC bandwagon, but the gap is narrowing.

I like SLU, I really do.  I had season tickets when I lived in St. Louis during the Rich Grawer era in the late eighties.  I saw Bonner play at the Kiel.  I saw Larry Hughes play at the Kiel.  My daughter is a grad.  But here are the questions.

Does SLU have a coach for next year?

Does the team have any players for the fall of 2015 other than a mediocre guard from Indiana coming next fall?

Is Biondi dumb enough or distracted enough by trying to save his own arse, to let your program drop below DePaul levels?

[keefe]

Is Biondi dumb enough or distracted enough by trying to save his own arse, to let your program drop below DePaul levels?

Thank you. This is why SLU is not a good fit as a partner for schools with an iron clad commitment to basketball.

[bradley center bat]

Help me out St. Louis fan.

When St. Louis & MU were in the Great Midwest and Conf. USA, the Billkins played in the hockey arena and they had crowds of 17,000+.  Now, I see it's a fight to sell-out there new on-campus arena that seats over 10,000. Why is that? What happened to the fan support of the mid 1990's?

[mr.MUskie]

How come everyone was afraid Larry was gonna turn us into SLU, but now everyone thinks they're great and wants them to join us in the C7?

[Chips]

-10- SLU- great program in a nice market.  

Great program? Since when?  Since 2000 they have 2 NIT appearances and 1 (soon to be 2) NCAA appearances, and EIGHT years of zero postseason.  Once Majerus' players leave, they'll be back to average at best.  Dayton has had far more success than them the past 12-13 years.

[Coleman]

Help me out St. Louis fan.

When St. Louis & MU were in the Great Midwest and Conf. USA, the Billkins played in the hockey arena and they had crowds of 17,000+. 

Did that ever really happen? I know they played at the Kiel but did they really sell it out?

They had a couple decent years in the 90s, but I think you are overplaying the good old days.

[🏀]

Great program? Since when?  Since 2000 they have 2 NIT appearances and 1 (soon to be 2) NCAA appearances, and EIGHT years of zero postseason.  Once Majerus' players leave, they'll be back to average at best.  Dayton has had far more success than them the past 12-13 years.

Define far more success...don't give me any ole' NIT bullcrap... Dayton and SLU are on equal footing when it comes to postseason success.

Here's where they are not on equal footing. St. Louis is a great small growing city, while Dayton is a turd baking in the hot summer sun.

[Coleman]

Define far more success...don't give me any ole' NIT bullcrap... Dayton and SLU are on equal footing when it comes to postseason success.

Here's where they are not on equal footing. St. Louis is a great small growing city, while Dayton is a turd baking in the hot summer sun.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

NO DAYTON

[🏀]

Did you know Dayton's wikipedia was like this for over two months?

[LON]

That is fantastic.

[Benny B]

Did you know Dayton's wikipedia was like this for over two months?

That's crazy... everyone knows that the plural of Cavalier is Cavaliers.

[🏀]

That's crazy... everyone knows that the plural of Cavalier is Cavaliers.

#merriamwebster'd

[BustedDreams49]

Help me out St. Louis fan.

When St. Louis & MU were in the Great Midwest and Conf. USA, the Billkins played in the hockey arena and they had crowds of 17,000+.  Now, I see it's a fight to sell-out there new on-campus arena that seats over 10,000. Why is that? What happened to the fan support of the mid 1990's?

Brad Soderberg tried like hell to kill the program. Also, the Cardinals sucked pre-LaRussa (1987 was last WS), the Blues were playing well in damn near obscurity; and college fandom in general was bigger in the St. Louis Metro Area. Spoonball re-energized the fanbase, and that filled arenas.

Also, the level of competition helped. The Metro/GM/CUSA days, there was a much higher class of opponent coming into town on a nightly basis. MU, Depaul, UAB, Louisville, Cincy...all schools the casual fan knew something about and wanted to see. Some fans were turned off by the decision to join the Atlantic 10 after CUSA.

Hope that helps. I just hope that in a year, this quote will come from a Big East team. The alternative is...

[keefe]

That's crazy... everyone knows that the plural of Cavalier is Cavaliers.

Maybe all the Red Scares crammed into one Cavalier?

[Avenue Commons]

Totally biased as how AC sees it:

1. Xavier
2. Butler
3. SLU
4. Creighton
5. Dayton
6. Richmond
7. VCU

(Notre Dame totally welcome for a "rent a year."

[chapman]

Great program? Since when?  Since 2000 they have 2 NIT appearances and 1 (soon to be 2) NCAA appearances, and EIGHT years of zero postseason.  Once Majerus' players leave, they'll be back to average at best.  Dayton has had far more success than them the past 12-13 years.

One more tournament appearance in that timeframe after this year?  Unless the Not In Tournament counts, as they seem to think in Dayton.  SLU has three NCAA wins since 1994 and will be favored for at least one game this year...Dayton has one NCAA win since 1990.  How is that far more success?  If anything SLU has had a little more. 

Just win the A-10 this year or get to the Sweet 16, and we'll call it even.

Unless that Sweet 16 requires beating us.  A bunch of brackets at the moment putting both around the potential 4/5 matchup.

[Dawson Rental]

Help me out St. Louis fan.

When St. Louis & MU were in the Great Midwest and Conf. USA, the Billkins played in the hockey arena and they had crowds of 17,000+.  Now, I see it's a fight to sell-out there new on-campus arena that seats over 10,000. Why is that? What happened to the fan support of the mid 1990's?

Did that ever really happen? I know they played at the Kiel but did they really sell it out?

They had a couple decent years in the 90s, but I think you are overplaying the good old days.

Actually, he's not overplaying the good old days.  The last five years of the Charlie Spoonhour coaching era had three years where the average game attendance at SLU exceeded the highest average game attendance ever achieved at Marquette, and SLU was in the NCAA's top ten for average game attendance for those years.

Year        Ave Game Attend      NCAA rank
1994-95                 17,714                  7
1995-96                 16,986                  7          
1996-97                 13,732                 18      
1997-98                 17,708                  6
1998-99                 15,142                 12

The highest average game attendance for Marquette was 16,239 in 2007-08, Crean's last year.

This, of course, raises the question of how SLU was stupid enough to let Spoonhour get away.  He retired in 1999, but after a year off, he went to UNLV, so he must have had something left in the tank.

[jaybilaswho?]

Absolutely.  Love the new on campus arena.  An 'all good' roadtrip.

Despite its proximity, the Chaif' is actually classified as an "off campus" complex and, thus, sells beer. Someone did a great job of lobbying on this one. I am sure the SLU fans dont want anyone to be reminded that it should be classified as an 'on campus' building and risk losing their beer sales.

I want SLU to be a part of this conference- but its mostly for personal reasons. My parents (mom is a SLU grad) have been SLU season ticket holders since i can remember, and still are. I grew up on Spoonball, went to their basketball camps. I love going to SLU games when I am in town. My freshmen year was the last year we played SLU in C-USA. I would love for the family rivalary to be reinstated. Plus it would allow for a road trip to Saint Louis each year for some home cooked meals.

Does SLU have a lacrosse team? Adding SLU would definitely help the league as far as soccer competition goes.

[keefe]

Totally biased as how AC sees it:

1. Xavier
2. Butler
3. SLU
4. Creighton
5. Dayton
6. Richmond
7. VCU

(Notre Dame totally welcome for a "rent a year."

Would you really want SLU before Creighton? Man, Creighton is all in for hoops, especially compared with SLU.

[Goose]

Depends what kind of conference folks want. Feel good conference includes SLU and basketball conference does not.

[Avenue Commons]

Would you really want SLU before Creighton? Man, Creighton is all in for hoops, especially compared with SLU.

Yes. But not by much. STL is closer to me than Omaha and I sincerely believe they are a program on the rise.

[Goose]

Keene
Seriously, why would you want either one? You know about about building a brand and both schools bring little value.

[keefe]

Keene
Seriously, why would you want either one? You know about about building a brand and both schools bring little value.

At the end of the day, League composition isn't being driven by Larry Williams and the other C7 AD's brain storming on a white board. This is being driven by Fox because they cut the checks. When we go to 12, then 14 or more it is because Fox is dictating that for competitive media purposes. Chicos could actually shed more light on this. What is exciting is that Fox is all over this in a big way and that bodes well for the Big East going forward. What I am hoping is that Fox dictates the Zags are part of the equation.

[Goose]

Keefe

Might be right, but big gamble how I see it.  Why water down too quickly? I realize decisions have to be made and accept that. I just hope they are long term decisions and quick fix that cannot be reversed.

[keefe]

Keefe

Might be right, but big gamble how I see it.  Why water down too quickly? I realize decisions have to be made and accept that. I just hope they are long term decisions and quick fix that cannot be reversed.

I am not wild about any of the schools mentioned beyond Xavier and Butler, save for the potential of the Zags. But to be competitive we will need to get to at least 12 in the near term. My biggest tangible concern is the quality of Seton Hall, St John's, PC, and DePaul. 44% of our founding members are substandard performers. That is a far greater practical concern than who might be joining over the next few years but it makes it imperative new joiners are committed to excellence.

[DoggyDaddy]

St. Louis has a great zoo, great baseball, a big media market, a big brewery, the Jesuit-Majerus link and of course, the strangest team name and mascot this side of a Hoya.
What's not to love?
I say the Billikins are in come the second round.       

[keefe]

St. Louis has a big brewery   

Not sure this is such a positive

[77ncaachamps]

Not sure this is such a positive

What city DOESN'T have a brewery nowadays?!

[keefe]

What city DOESN'T have a brewery nowadays?!

The really big one in St Louis makes its beer from rice...

[Mr. Nielsen]

Did that ever really happen? I know they played at the Kiel but did they really sell it out?

They had a couple decent years in the 90s, but I think you are overplaying the good old days.

TOP 20 SINGLE-GAME ATTENDANCE RECORDS
Date Opponent Score Site Attendance
1. 12/6/97 Illinois W 57-51 TWA Dome 32,429
2. 12/12/99 Missouri W 75-72 TWA Dome 25,790
3. 12/22/06 North Carolina L 48-69 Scottrade Center 22,539
4. 12/23/98 Kansas W 78-64 Kiel Center 22,527
5. 1/31/98 Louisville W 64-55 Kiel Center 21,331
6. 3/1/95 DePaul W 77-61 Kiel Center 21,004
7. 2/25/95 Dayton W 63-51 Kiel Center 20,930
8. 2/11/95 Memphis W 68-52 Kiel Center 20,911
9. 12/28/95 Austin Peay W 71-54 Kiel Center 20,618
10. 12/3/01 Missouri L 67-69 Savvis Center 20,602
11. 1/22/95 Marquette W 81-73 Kiel Center 20,176
12. 1/28/95 Cincinnati W 75-68 Kiel Center 20,149
13. 2/15/98 DePaul W 65-41 Kiel Center 20,137
14. 1/20/96 DePaul W 60-59 Kiel Center 20,019
15. 2/12/98 Cincinnati L 43-70 Kiel Center 20,007
16. 2/16/95 Alcorn State W 100-70 Kiel Center 19,966
17. 2/25/96 Marquette W 69-58 Kiel Center 19,714
18. 1/30/99 Marquette W 48-46 (OT) Kiel Center 19,437
19. 2/19/96 Cincinnati L 64-69 Kiel Center 18,560
20. 2/25/98 Marquette W 67-65 Kiel Center 18,493

[slingkong]

St. Louis has a great zoo, great baseball, a big media market, a big brewery, the Jesuit-Majerus link and of course, the strangest team name and mascot this side of a Hoya.
What's not to love?
I say the Billikins are in come the second round.       

You forgot that the city of St. Louis, beyond the great zoo and a couple of good micro breweries, is crap. Utter crap. Huge TV market, though, because it's a sprawling wasteland.

Someone asked earlier if the bball success will continue without Majerus or if Biondi would screw it up to further empower himself. I would absolutely wager the latter. It was a "blind dog finds a nut" situation that got Majerus there. He frequently disagreed, in public, with Biondi specifically and with the diocese in general. Biondi won't let that happen again. He'll find someone that will blindly follow his demands. He is simply not committed to the bball program. The school itself, especially the law school, is in free fall.

Add SLU as a 14th member, maybe, but personally I think it's a bad idea to add them as 10th through 12th.

[jsglow]

Despite its proximity, the Chaif' is actually classified as an "off campus" complex and, thus, sells beer. Someone did a great job of lobbying on this one. I am sure the SLU fans don't want anyone to be reminded that it should be classified as an 'on campus' building and risk losing their beer sales.

Helluva political trick in that one!  For folks that don't know, that's almost like saying 'the Al' isn't on campus.  SLU's beautiful arena is situated just east of the student union admittedly at the far end of the campus.  Perhaps it's just outside the barrier fence, huh? Anyway, it's perfect for their student body and my daughter considered in an attractive element to the SLU experience when she was considering their Nursing program.

[Coleman]

TOP 20 SINGLE-GAME ATTENDANCE RECORDS
Date Opponent Score Site Attendance
1. 12/6/97 Illinois W 57-51 TWA Dome 32,429
2. 12/12/99 Missouri W 75-72 TWA Dome 25,790
3. 12/22/06 North Carolina L 48-69 Scottrade Center 22,539
4. 12/23/98 Kansas W 78-64 Kiel Center 22,527
5. 1/31/98 Louisville W 64-55 Kiel Center 21,331
6. 3/1/95 DePaul W 77-61 Kiel Center 21,004
7. 2/25/95 Dayton W 63-51 Kiel Center 20,930
8. 2/11/95 Memphis W 68-52 Kiel Center 20,911
9. 12/28/95 Austin Peay W 71-54 Kiel Center 20,618
10. 12/3/01 Missouri L 67-69 Savvis Center 20,602
11. 1/22/95 Marquette W 81-73 Kiel Center 20,176
12. 1/28/95 Cincinnati W 75-68 Kiel Center 20,149
13. 2/15/98 DePaul W 65-41 Kiel Center 20,137
14. 1/20/96 DePaul W 60-59 Kiel Center 20,019
15. 2/12/98 Cincinnati L 43-70 Kiel Center 20,007
16. 2/16/95 Alcorn State W 100-70 Kiel Center 19,966
17. 2/25/96 Marquette W 69-58 Kiel Center 19,714
18. 1/30/99 Marquette W 48-46 (OT) Kiel Center 19,437
19. 2/19/96 Cincinnati L 64-69 Kiel Center 18,560
20. 2/25/98 Marquette W 67-65 Kiel Center 18,493

Wow. I stand corrected. 32,000 in the TWA dome?????? Where is that on the records books all-time for NCAA? Outside of Syracuse, that's gotta be near the top

[MU82]

You forgot that the city of St. Louis, beyond the great zoo and a couple of good micro breweries, is crap. Utter crap. Huge TV market, though, because it's a sprawling wasteland.

Someone asked earlier if the bball success will continue without Majerus or if Biondi would screw it up to further empower himself. I would absolutely wager the latter. It was a "blind dog finds a nut" situation that got Majerus there. He frequently disagreed, in public, with Biondi specifically and with the diocese in general. Biondi won't let that happen again. He'll find someone that will blindly follow his demands. He is simply not committed to the bball program. The school itself, especially the law school, is in free fall.

Add SLU as a 14th member, maybe, but personally I think it's a bad idea to add them as 10th through 12th.

"Crap" is a strong word, and all cities (including Milwaukee) have their nice and less-than-nice areas. However, there isn't a lot of nice to St. Louis. Its downtown is boring and shuts down at about 5 p.m., Laclede's Landing has mostly been a failure and there's just not much in the city itself to like. Nice suburbs? Probably, but even Detroit has those.

[Benny B]

"Crap" is a strong word, and all cities (including Milwaukee) have their nice and less-than-nice areas. However, there isn't a lot of nice to St. Louis. Its downtown is boring and shuts down at about 5 p.m., Laclede's Landing has mostly been a failure and there's just not much in the city itself to like. Nice suburbs? Probably, but even Detroit has those.

Is that an endorsement for Detroit Mercy?

[PJDunn]

I lived in St Louis after graduation (central west end) in '87 and enjoyed the city.  I have a soft spot for STL (grew up a Card fan), but it has become a wasteland.  Actually took the family there last year to see the arch and some old friends, and it was just plain depressing.  I would prefer to keep it off of the road trip agenda.  I would also like to pass on Dayton.  Keep it at 10.

[Marqevans]

Hope you guys get invited!

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

"Crap" is a strong word, and all cities (including Milwaukee) have their nice and less-than-nice areas. However, there isn't a lot of nice to St. Louis. Its downtown is boring and shuts down at about 5 p.m., Laclede's Landing has mostly been a failure and there's just not much in the city itself to like. Nice suburbs? Probably, but even Detroit has those.

Detroit's downtown wins versus SL's any day of the week