ND for a single season?

[Groin_pull]

ND would consider it? Wow, how big of them.

Screw 'em. They can deal with C-USA 2.0 for one season. Somehow, I think they'll survive.

[hairy worthen]

Tomorrow game is expected to see near 19,000 in the BC, near an all-time record.  That is not because they are ranked #22.  No, the huge crowd is coming to see us play the name ND on the front of the jersey.

I know you detest ND, fact is they are a money making machine for themselves and the schools that play them.  Fortunately we have a good relationship and long history with them and they will go out of their way to schedule us in the future.  And MU will make good money off this relationship.  Now is not the time to burn bridges.

Now if you want to mail Larry Williams a $500k check a year with the stipulations that he screw ND, that's different.  Until that check shows up on LW's desk, keep the friends that put money in your pocket happy.

I think you should look at who is doing the bridge burning.  Not letting ND in a new conference for one year isn't burning a bridge, telling existing big east conference members to basically go to hell while we chase after more money is more like the bridge burning you talk about.

  I understand your point, but at some point you have to move forward with what you are going to have long term.  In the court of public opinion, ND bolting after a year looks like instability.  It also looks like an insecure boyfriend begging his hot girlfriend to stay with him. Shows weakness.  Having ND in the conference for one year isn't going to make a bit of difference on their conference affiliation moving forward regardless of what happens.  I get what you are saying, but there is also some merit to having a backbone.

[war1980rior]

Tomorrow game is expected to see near 19,000 in the BC, near an all-time record.  That is not because they are ranked #22.  No, the huge crowd is coming to see us play the name ND on the front of the jersey.

I know you detest ND, fact is they are a money making machine for themselves and the schools that play them.  Fortunately we have a good relationship and long history with them and they will go out of their way to schedule us in the future.  And MU will make good money off this relationship.  Now is not the time to burn bridges.

Now if you want to mail Larry Williams a $500k check a year with the stipulations that he screw ND, that's different.  Until that check shows up on LW's desk, keep the friends that put money in your pocket happy.

I dislike no school more than ND, but this is why we play them (right on the money, so to speak, MU84).  I'd love to keep them on the schedule for at least one game a year in the future.  When it was subzero with wind in my face, it was still motivating to walk to the Mecca and watch Al push Digger out the door with a loss!

I don't know what the overall record is, and don't care.  I just want to see MU thrash them each and every chance!

[Tugg Speedman]

I think you should look at who is doing the bridge burning.  Not letting ND in a new conference for one year isn't burning a bridge, telling existing big east conference members to basically go to hell while we chase after more money is more like the bridge burning you talk about.

 I understand your point, but at some point you have to move forward with what you are going to have long term.  In the court of public opinion, ND bolting after a year looks like instability.  It also looks like an insecure boyfriend begging his hot girlfriend to stay with him. Shows weakness.  Having ND in the conference for one year isn't going to make a bit of difference on their conference affiliation moving forward regardless of what happens.  I get what you are saying, but there is also some merit to having a backbone.

What bridge is being burned?

Louisville?  They want it both ways.  They need the old BE for a fall football schedule yet want the new BE for basketball.  They cannot have it both ways.  You don't get to pick and chose between two conferences on a sport by sport basis.  

Uconn/Cincy?  They are in a holding pattern until space opens us in the ACC.  That is their problem, not ours so they are not in our LT interest to have them in the new BE.

Rutgers?  Again they need a football schedule for next year (old BE) and they are the one that forced the issue by jumping to the B1G.  No new BE for them too. (No soup for you!)

As I've argued, ND is an exception because I still think when the ACC implodes and takes more BE/CUSA teams ND will bolt as explained here.  

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36509.msg458819#msg458819

Also ND does not need the old BE for a fall football schedule.  

ND is a future member, that is why you take them.  Give them a test drive.

[keefe]

1975-76

Man, I could not hate that IU team. Sure we lost to them but that is one of the greatest CBB teams ever. And the big difference is that I also admire Knight. Guy was a jerk but he was clean. For instance, I cannot imagine Bobby Knight ever instructing his players to fake taking an elbow. If he's going to beat you its on the court with integrity. I am sure he would rather lose with honor than accept a tainted victory.

[MUMonster03]

Tomorrow game is expected to see near 19,000 in the BC, near an all-time record.  That is not because they are ranked #22.  No, the huge crowd is coming to see us play the name ND on the front of the jersey.

The reason for the huge crowd has very little to do with ND tomorrow. The place would be packed if we were playing Louisville, Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, etc.

1. It's senior day and National Marquette day which always draws a huge crowd.
2. It's the last home game of the year.
3. This is our last major test in a chance to win a share of the last, as it is constructed now, BEast title.
4. It's the last home game of the season, the last chance a lot of students are going to get to see a team very few expected to have this type of season play.

As long as you had an upper tier opponent for tomorrow's game it would be packed.

As to the topic of the thread, screw ND. They made a choice to go to the ACC, they made their bed, now lie in it. Who cares if they have to play a season in C-USA 2.0. It's not like the ACC will retract their offer and we are getting plenty of money from Fox without them.

[hairy worthen]

As I've argued, ND is an exception because I still think when the ACC implodes and takes more BE/CUSA teams ND will bolt as explained here.  

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36509.msg458819#msg458819

Also ND does not need the old BE for a fall football schedule.  

ND is a future member, that is why you take them.  Give them a test drive.

I hope ND is a future member, but I think you are being overly optimistic. If the ACC falls through for them, don't you think the Big 10 would take them in a heartbeat, especially if their football comes along. 

Why would we need to test drive ND, we know what they are. Like I said ND being in the  C-7 conference for one year has no influence on where they land going forward. You think they are going to do us a favor down the road at their expense? They will do what is best for them and they should. If you want to argue that it would be profitable for both them and the conference for the one year they are in it, I can see that. 

[Dawson Rental]

Man, I could not hate that IU team. Sure we lost to them but that is one of the greatest CBB teams ever. And the big difference is that I also admire Knight. Guy was a jerk but he was clean. For instance, I cannot imagine Bobby Knight ever instructing his players to fake taking an elbow. If he's going to beat you its on the court with integrity. I am sure he would rather lose with honor than accept a tainted victory.

I find myself well refuted.

[The Equalizer]

Letting ND in for one year knowing full well they will leave is not a sign of instability. Instability -- and the ill feelings it causes -- stems from not knowing what evil lurks. In this case, we know the evil (ND) and know exactly how long it will lurk (one year).

I'd be happy to get a sold-out Bradley Center and two more shots to beat ND. And again, maybe just maybe a few dominoes will fall and ND will end up back in our league.

I see zero instability and zero downside.

The downside is they win the league championship.

The last thing our new league needs is for the storyline going into its second season to be "How will the league cope with losing its best team".

[Dawson Rental]

The downside is they win the league championship.

The last thing our new league needs is for the storyline going into its second season to be "How will the league cope with losing its best team".

Excellent point.

[MUMonster03]

The downside is they win the league championship.

The last thing our new league needs is for the storyline going into its second season to be "How will the league cope with losing its best team".

This is exactly why I don't want them for a year. Ever since Marquette has joined a conference we have bounced around and never been in the same place for more than 10 years. It is time, and hopefully this conference will bring it, to finally have the same 10 to 12 schools together for 25+ years so true rivalries can develop like what existed between Georgetown/Syracuse and UConn/Syracuse. This constant changing of conferences and letting people in for brief periods of times has derived Marquette of any true conference rivalries, not counting DePaul since they haven't been good lately.

The ones that I will miss are Cincy and Louisville since those go back to the C-USA days. Will be sad to see those rivalries die. ND will live on whether we are in the same conference or not, it probably just goes back to being a home and home which is what it mostly has been in the Big East since you only have played 3 schools twice most years.

[chapman]

The downside is they win the league championship.

The last thing our new league needs is for the storyline going into its second season to be "How will the league cope with losing its best team".

Invite a team for one season, they win the league, then bail to the ACC...now that's a black eye.  Don't care about playing the expectations game, would rather just avoid the possibility of that.
 
This year is a lighter form of the opposite for the C7, which helps perception moving forward: Georgetown and MU could finish tied for first or 1-2, ahead of next year's ACC entrants Syracuse/Pitt with MU undefeated against both, and leaving UConn/UC/USF who had years of probation, below expectations, and terrible.

[Tugg Speedman]

I hope ND is a future member, but I think you are being overly optimistic. If the ACC falls through for them, don't you think the Big 10 would take them in a heartbeat, especially if their football comes along. 

As I wrote in the other link, ND is NOT a football ACC member.  That means ND keeps all its football money (no revenue sharing with the conference).  Instead the ACC "sold" an ACC bowl spot to ND in exchange for ND playing 5 ACC games every year.

The B1G will take ND in a heartbeat ONLY IF ND comes in as a full football member.  That means sharing ND's $43 million/year with the rest of the conference.  ND will never do that (especially now that they are really good again) and the B1G will never take them as a non-football member.  

So, scratch ND going to the B1G ... it is not going to happen unless or until ND is desperate (will go in the B1G as a football member) or the B1G is desperate (will take ND as a non-football member).  Neither are desperate right now.

[hairy worthen]

As I wrote in the other link, ND is NOT a football ACC member.  That means ND keeps all its football money (no revenue sharing with the conference).  Instead the ACC "sold" an ACC bowl spot to ND in exchange for ND playing 5 ACC games every year.

The B1G will take ND in a heartbeat ONLY IF ND comes in as a full football member.  That means sharing ND's $43 million/year with the rest of the conference.  ND will never do that (especially now that they are really good again) and the B1G will never take them as a non-football member.  

So, scratch ND going to the B1G ... it is not going to happen unless or until ND is desperate (will go in the B1G as a football member) or the B1G is desperate (will take ND as a non-football member).  Neither are desperate right now.

Ok. Then the best place for their basketball to land would be c-7, if (and thats a big if) the acc implodes. What does that have to do with them playing in the c-7 for one year. That does not make it more likely they would join later

[MU82]

The downside is they win the league championship.

The last thing our new league needs is for the storyline going into its second season to be "How will the league cope with losing its best team".

This definitely is the one and only reason to not let them in. I previously said "zero downside." I will amend that to "negligible downside." I still would rather have them in than not.

[Tugg Speedman]

The downside is they win the league championship.

The last thing our new league needs is for the storyline going into its second season to be "How will the league cope with losing its best team".

Why is this different than Cuse or Louisville winning the BE this year.  No one seems concerned about them winning and leaving for the ACC as a black-eye to the BE.  Show me the old post where this was a concern?

Going in everyone knows ND is their for only one year, and why only one year.  Also everyone knows the ACC is largely a football decision and no one is going to be shocked that football decisions are more important than basketball decisions.

This is a total non-event invented by ND haters that are incapable of seeing a good business deal.  Sure glad none of the people that think this way have decision making authority in this deal.

[jficke13]

My hatred of ND makes me want them in the conference. More shots at beating them. More ND Hate Weeks.

[hairy worthen]

This definitely is the one and only reason to not let them in. I previously said "zero downside." I will amend that to "negligible downside." I still would rather have them in than not.

Its way more than just negligible. Even if they are just competitive, which they will be, it looks bad when they move to a different conference. The new conference would then be weaker in year 2 than it was in year one.Going in the worng direction. Definite down side.

[Tugg Speedman]

Its way more than just negligible. Even if they are just competitive, which they will be, it looks bad when they move to a different conference. The new conference would then be weaker in year 2 than it was in year one.Going in the worng direction. Definite down side.

So by the same logic none of the new BE members will want to play a non-conference game against ND because they could lose and look bad.

Don't quit your day job and join a PR firm.

[hairy worthen]

So by the same logic none of the new BE members will want to play a non-conference game against ND because they could lose and look bad.

Don't quit your day job and join a PR firm.

Not a PR person, but I know that when one of the best teams from a conference leaves, said conference becomes weaker by definition and in the eye of the public. Not what a new startup conference needs.

How in the hell is one team playing a non-conference opponent the same as a team leaving a conference? 

[chapman]

Why is this different than Cuse of Louisville winning the BE this year.  No one seems concerned that them winning and leaving for the ACC as a black-eye to the BE.  Show me the old post where this was a concern?

The current Big East didn't invite them in for one season before they bailed, and the current Big East already has a black eye, two broken ribs, a fractured pelvis, and an arthritic knee.  It isn't favorable for Conference USA 2.0 to have the first sentence of their 2013-14 season preview reading: "The former Big East loses its top four finishers from last year, as Georgetown and Marquette left and took the Big East name with them, and Louisville and Syracuse head to the ACC."

So by the same logic none of the new BE members will want to play a non-conference game against ND because they could lose and look bad.

Don't quit your day job and join a PR firm.

One or two games in the preseason against a ten team conference ≠ an entire 18 game season as a member of that conference.   

[WarriorHal]

Screw ND. I'm sick of all the special treatment they get just because they're ND. Since we have a long-standing rivalry with them, let's play ND once a year during the early non-conference portion of the season if that can be worked out. Otherwise, they can go to hell!

[Benny B]

Anyone else find it convenient/interesting that Swarbrick has been stating repeatedly for months now that ND will be in the Big East next year.

[The Equalizer]

Why is this different than Cuse or Louisville winning the BE this year.  No one seems concerned about them winning and leaving for the ACC as a black-eye to the BE.  Show me the old post where this was a concern?

Show me a post where anyone thinks the Big East isn't going to be weaker next year.

[Tugg Speedman]

Screw ND. I'm sick of all the special treatment they get just because they're ND. Since we have a long-standing rivalry with them, let's play ND once a year during the early non-conference portion of the season if that can be worked out. Otherwise, they can go to hell!

What special treatment?  You mean because they are a powerful national brand that everyone wants to play you define that as special treatment?