BIG ? to add UNC and possibly UVA or Gtech?

[butchbadger]

Duke had a decent football team and played well in a bowl game but lost (IIRC).  I think they find themselves in aslightly precarious position being weak in football though.  I  am not sure the ACC football schools are good enough to matter long term.

I hate the idea of the Big 10 going to 16 teams but if they did UVA and UNC would be great fits.   Still scratching my head on Rutgers - except for the TV market.

[Groin_pull]

Because the midwest isn't dying, isn't entirely the "rust belt," has a ton of people, and has a bunch of schools with enormous alumni bases.

The Rust Belt isn't dying and has a ton of people? Really? I think you mean the Midwest has plenty of people who weigh a ton.

[jficke13]

Duke did go to a bowl game this season.

Congratulations on being one of the top 50% of all programs. /sarcasm.

[Tugg Speedman]

We've been hearing whispers about this happening. I'll say it again...it's very interesting that the fourth best football conference...located in the dying Rust Belt...is able to call all the shots and hold all the power.

Because the B1G had the foresight and strategy to start the Big Ten Network (BTN).  They understood with 4 million alumni (read that number again) that support their schools (read "donate money"), the BTN would work. Because it did, the B1G generates more money than any other conference.

Because money drives every single decision and the B1G has more money than anyone else, they are at the top of the heap and EVERYONE wants in (except ND because the B1G will only take them if they include football, which ND will not relent on).

[chapman]

Duke did go to a bowl game this season.

They still needed to use their enormous football budget to put out commercials with those craptacular local ad production values begging people to go to the games.  Quite funny given how unbecoming of Duke they are, but that's Duke football.

[MU82]

Saying the Big Ten is "struggling" is silly.

So is saying that UNC and UVa don't have good football programs.

On the first point, the Big Ten is practically printing money. The fact that it hasn't won mythical national titles or many bowl games at all means nothing. It is the diametric opposite of struggling in the only mea$ure that matters.

On the second point, there is no reason that, given proper leadership, UNC or UVa can't produce excellent football programs. UNC won big just a few years ago. Perhaps the money the B1G would provide would increase their chances.

Both would be great additions to the very Un-struggling Big Ten.

And the exodus of UNC, should it happen, would be the beginning of the end for the ACC.

[Niv Berkowitz]

You think the SEC is a better basketball conference than the Big Ten?

Hold on there guy. Big Ten hoops has been not-good for most of the last ten years. They are superior this year by far, but it's been a while since they held the mantle as "best conference" in back-to-back years.

And when I mentioned the Big Ten was down, you are right, I wasn't saying "moneywise". It was more about perceived "goodness" on the playing (football) field. They are down right now.

[Spotcheck Billy]

IIRC UNC can't go anywhere without NC State

[jficke13]

And when I mentioned the Big Ten was down, you are right, I wasn't saying "moneywise". It was more about perceived "goodness" on the playing (football) field. They are down right now.

Yeah, I mean there's a reason people talk about the Rose Bowl no one talks about "who's going from the Big?" they say "who's going to lose to the Pac-10/12? champion this year"

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

The question to me is:

If the ACC does in fact break up will the new conference for football even be allowed to participate with the big boys?  Or will the big boys from a football standpiont just include 64 or 80 teams in their new "NCAA" and cut the others out?  Teams like Duke and UCONN could really be left hold a bag full of %^&( in the end...

[Niv Berkowitz]

The big ten is struggling...on the field, and from a "perceived toughness" standpoint. Certainly not financially. If you think the big ten hasn't been struggling the last four years on the field, you haven't been paying attention. Things are certainly looking up, now.

UNC was really good for a couple years, you're right. And then what happened? Oh yeah, they had to blow up the program because of Butch Davis' cheating/scandal.

They've been saying for months in many Big Ten-affiliated newspapers that UNC and/or UVA would be the next shoes to drop, especially UVA because of it's strong ties (from its leaders) to the Big Ten (Michigan and OSU ties, I think).

[Warriors10]

Saying the Big Ten is "struggling" is silly.

So is saying that UNC and UVa don't have good football programs.

On the first point, the Big Ten is practically printing money. The fact that it hasn't won mythical national titles or many bowl games at all means nothing. It is the diametric opposite of struggling in the only mea$ure that matters.

On the second point, there is no reason that, given proper leadership, UNC or UVa can't produce excellent football programs. UNC won big just a few years ago. Perhaps the money the B1G would provide would increase their chances.

Both would be great additions to the very Un-struggling Big Ten.

And the exodus of UNC, should it happen, would be the beginning of the end for the ACC.

Actually, UNC won nothing a few years ago; all that got taken away.

Also, I love the fact we are having a B1G v. SEC argument on our boards.

[Aughnanure]

IIRC UNC can't go anywhere without NC State

As long as NC State has a safe landing spot (SEC) they can.

[Groin_pull]

Saying the Big Ten is "struggling" is silly.

So is saying that UNC and UVa don't have good football programs.

On the first point, the Big Ten is practically printing money. The fact that it hasn't won mythical national titles or many bowl games at all means nothing. It is the diametric opposite of struggling in the only mea$ure that matters.

On the second point, there is no reason that, given proper leadership, UNC or UVa can't produce excellent football programs. UNC won big just a few years ago. Perhaps the money the B1G would provide would increase their chances.

Both would be great additions to the very Un-struggling Big Ten.

And the exodus of UNC, should it happen, would be the beginning of the end for the ACC.

So money is all that matters...and the on-field product is a complete afterthought? Good to know.

[mu03eng]

4th best but richest by far, largest alumni base and best tv ratings.

Its all about the eyeballs and UNC and GTech/UVA get a lot of eyeballs and new locations not covered by the Big10.

[mu03eng]

So money is all that matters...and the on-field product is a complete afterthought? Good to know.

According to the ratings, it's a reasonable conclusion to reach

[Pakuni]

On the first point, the Big Ten is practically printing money. The fact that it hasn't won mythical national titles or many bowl games at all means nothing. It is the diametric opposite of struggling in the only mea$ure that matters.

I think you're getting a bit carried away here. Actually, a lot carried away. Sure, money is hugely important, and it's better to be turning big profits than not.
But I doubt you'll find many Iowa fans crowing over the football team's revenues.
Purdue fans aren't consoling themselves over the team's 12-14 record with the knowledge that the Big 10 Network is making money.
Illinois donors aren't so thrilled with the conference's bottom line that they're tripping over one another to donate to their alma mater.
Nobody will ever buy a T-shirt declaring their chosen team "NCAA Sports Revenue Champions."
Nobody will ever buy season tickets to see the athletic department bean counters go over revenue figures.

No, money is not the only measure that matters.

On the second point, there is no reason that, given proper leadership, UNC or UVa can't produce excellent football programs. UNC won big just a few years ago. Perhaps the money the B1G would provide would increase their chances.

Which of UNC's recent 8-5 seasons is the one in which they "won big?"
And was that big eight-win season (and trip to the esteemed Meincke Car Care Bowl) worth landing on probation?

[mu03eng]

The question to me is:

If the ACC does in fact break up will the new conference for football even be allowed to participate with the big boys?  Or will the big boys from a football standpiont just include 64 or 80 teams in their new "NCAA" and cut the others out?  Teams like Duke and UCONN could really be left hold a bag full of %^&( in the end...

This won't ever happen because the NCAA has tax-exempt status that means a lot of dollars saved for universities.  IF they tried to create a break away organization there is NO WAY they can that exemption and then it no longer makes financial sense.

This is why even though Emmert has turned the NCAA into a complete clusterf@#k (in his defense it wasn't good before he got there, he has just accelerated the clusterf@#kiness)....the members will help the system limp along instead of blowing it up.  The exemption is worth hundreds of millions if not more.

[LAZER]

Hold on there guy. Big Ten hoops has been not-good for most of the last ten years. They are superior this year by far, but it's been a while since they held the mantle as "best conference" in back-to-back years.

And when I mentioned the Big Ten was down, you are right, I wasn't saying "moneywise". It was more about perceived "goodness" on the playing (football) field. They are down right now.

I asked that question in response to Pakuni's comparison on B10/SEC Championships.  I'm wasn't sure if that's what he was implying.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

This won't ever happen because the NCAA has tax-exempt status that means a lot of dollars saved for universities.  IF they tried to create a break away organization there is NO WAY they can that exemption and then it no longer makes financial sense.

This is why even though Emmert has turned the NCAA into a complete clusterf@#k (in his defense it wasn't good before he got there, he has just accelerated the clusterf@#kiness)....the members will help the system limp along instead of blowing it up.  The exemption is worth hundreds of millions if not more.

If it happened before, why cant they form a new association with the same exemptions...

[Pakuni]

As long as NC State has a safe landing spot (SEC) they can.

And the SEC wants NC State why?
There are about five ACC schools (Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Miami) that would be on the SEC's short list ahead of NC State.

[LAZER]

So money is all that matters...and the on-field product is a complete afterthought? Good to know.

I still think there's a very solid argument to be made that the Big Ten is the 2nd best football conference.

[Pakuni]

You think the SEC is a better basketball conference than the Big Ten?

Top to bottom, no.
Top to top over the past decade? They're as good, yeah.

Regardless, I was replying to a post that stated the SEC, relative to the Big 10, is good only on one sport. That's clearly not true.

[bradley center bat]

And the SEC wants NC State why?
There are about five ACC schools (Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Miami) that would be on the SEC's short list ahead of NC State.

Raleigh market. Does have a pro team. (NHL)

SEC doesn't want Clemson has South Carolina.
SEC doesn't want FSU or Miami, has Florida.
SEC doesn't want GT, has Georgia.

SEC would like VT.

[keefe]

Still scratching my head on Rutgers - except for the TV market.

Contiguity. B1G requires contiguity for expansion