Jamil Wilson

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So we are comparing a Junior and Senior Dwight Buycks with a Freshman and Sophomore Todd Mayo (and a sophomore who missed an entire summer and fall with the team due to his own self inflicted problems)?  Okay.  

Interesting to look at Lockett compared to Mayo and Buycks.  Mayo simply is better than Lockett...and would give more production than Lockett does if he gets Lockett kind of minutes per game.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=trent-lockett&dwight-buycks=career&i=1&p1=todd-mayo&p2=dwight-buycks&todd-mayo=2012-2013

Don't get your feathers ruffled.

Please read EXACTLY what I wrote (the whole thing):

Yea, I don't know if that has to do with name recognition or what.

In Todd's defense, he's basically matching Buycks' numbers and still has 2 years of eligibility left. He has some upside.

However, right now (2013), Mayo is Buycks... which is why people should set their expectations accordingly.

I'm not comparing their careers, just saying that right now, Todd is very similar to Dwight Buycks.

That's not a slight on either kid.

Also, if you want to get into details, Dwight played at MU when he was 20 and 21. Todd Mayo entered MU at: 20, and is currently 21.

[MUMonster03]

They don't play D in the Pac-12. If you can't shoot 49%, you should be cut!

Don't get to watch a lot of PAC-12 ball since the games are on late and they haven't got much national attention but the fall off still surprises me even with better defense thats more than 10% dropoff.

[Clam Crowder]

If Mayo played over Trent I think we would get absolutely destroyed on the boards. Trent does alot of the little things and he does them well. He does some frustrating things but he needs to be out there for better or worse because of his defense and rebounding.

[Lennys Tap]

If Mayo played over Trent I think we would get absolutely destroyed on the boards. Trent does alot of the little things and he does them well. He does some frustrating things but he needs to be out there for better or worse because of his defense and rebounding.

Your point is well taken, and it extends to the team in general. We have a really solid #2 in Blue. Add DWilson's defense to Junior for a solid PG, Lockett"s size/rebounding to Mayo for a solid 3 and some of Juan's passion to JWilson for a solid 4. At the 5, we have one guy who"s really good offensively and one who's just OK on O but pretty good on D. These guys aren't mid majors, but they're not All Americans either. Every game Buzz has to juggle the misfit toys the best he can, and so far it's going better than most of us expected.

[NersEllenson]

If Mayo played over Trent I think we would get absolutely destroyed on the boards. Trent does alot of the little things and he does them well. He does some frustrating things but he needs to be out there for better or worse because of his defense and rebounding.

Buzz has Lockett crashing the boards at this time and Blue rotating back on D and as an outlet on O.  He'd flip it, if he started to play Mayo more than Lockett - whereby Blue becomes the crash the boards guard, and Todd becomes an outlet on O, and defender rotating back on D.  Last year Vander had a role where he crashed the boards more - similar to Lockett's this year...and that is the reason his rebounding numbers are down this year.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Buzz has Lockett crashing the boards at this time and Blue rotating back on D and as an outlet on O.  He'd flip it, if he started to play Mayo more than Lockett - whereby Blue becomes the crash the boards guard, and Todd becomes an outlet on O, and defender rotating back on D.  Last year Vander had a role where he crashed the boards more - similar to Lockett's this year...and that is the reason his rebounding numbers are down this year.

Are you saying that Vander's lack of rebounding this year is due to a position change?

I don't think this guy would agree with that:

How do you reconcile (or make excuses as you always do for Vander) for his lack of rebounding, assists and blocks this year?  He's improved 1000 fold offensively (thank God), but has fallen off significantly in the areas that were his only redeeming areas his first 2 season - defense and rebounding.

[slingkong]

This was hashed and rehashed last week or so. Sultan is more or less correct on this one, IMO - Jamil is what he is. He's not necessarily underperforming based on his potential; he's underperforming based on our expectations. It's not mental weaknesses or physical limitations holding him back. He just doesn't seem to have that fire that one needs to really step up. MJ and Black Mamba had/have a fire to win. Jamil is a nice as hell guy that everyone just really wants to do well.

[NersEllenson]

Are you saying that Vander's lack of rebounding this year is due to a position change?

I don't think this guy would agree with that:

Agh....you got me Guns....but it also shows...... you've got issues.  Remind me the next time I search your post history for a bad point you made 40+ days ago.  Petty...but I expect it from you.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Agh....you got me Guns....but it also shows...... you've got issues.  Remind me the next time I search your post history for a bad point you made 40+ days ago.  Petty...but I expect it from you.

I remembered that you were very critical of Vander's rebounding. 5min search history. Done.

[NersEllenson]

I remembered that you were very critical of Vander's rebounding. 5min search history. Done.

Creepy.  Even for you.

[MerrittsMustache]

This was hashed and rehashed last week or so. Sultan is more or less correct on this one, IMO - Jamil is what he is. He's not necessarily underperforming based on his potential; he's underperforming based on our expectations. It's not mental weaknesses or physical limitations holding him back. He just doesn't seem to have that fire that one needs to really step up. MJ and Black Mamba had/have a fire to win. Jamil is a nice as hell guy that everyone just really wants to do well.

I agreed completely until the bolded part. It's not a matter of fire, it's a matter of skill. Jamil wants to win just as much as anybody else on that roster. He just doesn't currently have the ability to put this team on his back and carry them to a W. Put another way, Jake Thomas may have more fire than any player in college basketball, but that doesn't mean he'd be able to take over a Big East road game.

[MUMonster03]

Can someone bookmark this thread? Because next season everyone will have raised expectations for him again. I have recently excepted him for what he is, 20-25 minutes and 8-10 points.

[Henry Sugar]

Just to repost this again regarding Jamil. He has been better this year than last year. The key differences are that Jamil finished very strong at the end of last year, AND this year Jamil has had a number of very bad games.

[tower912]

The other thing comparing this year to last is that last year Jae and DJO were the two leaders.   They were going to get their 35-40, the rest of the team would combine for 35-40.   If JWilson had a 2 pt game, as long as he didn't foul out, it didn't matter. 

[MUMonster03]

Just to repost this again regarding Jamil. He has been better this year than last year. The key differences are that Jamil finished very strong at the end of last year, AND this year Jamil has had a number of very bad games.

Not trying to be a jerk but I must have missed this. What is this a chart of? Is it some type of game score since it goes negative?

[Henry Sugar]

Not trying to be a jerk but I must have missed this. What is this a chart of? Is it some type of game score since it goes negative?

It's an advanced stats look at how much an individual player contributed to the margin of victory or loss. For example, Marquette beat DePaul by eleven points. Jamil was a positive contributor to that margin of victory (+1.1 net pts). Marquette beat USF at home by thirteen points, but it was done in spite of Jamil's on-court contributions (-2.1 net pts), and mostly due to Vander exploding in that game (+10.7 net pts)

I like to look at it for the overall trends and to get a feel for if a player is a general net positive or net negative contributor.

In general, the better players on the team have the greatest amount of net points and positive net point games. For example, Jae and DJO were +165 and +108 net points last year, respectively. You can also put that in perspective of where Jamil was last year (+3.5) and is now this year (+13)

[jmayer1]

Creepy.  Even for you.

I remembered you said it as well, as I disagreed with the comment at the time. I would have posted something had Guns not beat me to it. Maybe you're just upset that your foot doesn't taste too good.

[MUMonster03]

It's an advanced stats look at how much an individual player contributed to the margin of victory or loss. For example, Marquette beat DePaul by eleven points. Jamil was a positive contributor to that margin of victory (+1.1 net pts). Marquette beat USF at home by thirteen points, but it was done in spite of Jamil's on-court contributions (-2.1 net pts), and mostly due to Vander exploding in that game (+10.7 net pts)

I like to look at it for the overall trends and to get a feel for if a player is a general net positive or net negative contributor.

In general, the better players on the team have the greatest amount of net points and positive net point games. For example, Jae and DJO were +165 and +108 net points last year, respectively. You can also put that in perspective of where Jamil was last year (+3.5) and is now this year (+13)

Thanks. Didn't see your other post until after this one that had it for some of the other guys. Good info.

[NersEllenson]

I remembered you said it as well, as I disagreed with the comment at the time. I would have posted something had Guns not beat me to it. Maybe you're just upset that your foot doesn't taste too good.

Nah...not upset....just find it childish and petty to search through people's post histories, or throw something out months and years later to point out foot in the mouth moments/points.  Anyone who has more than 30 posts on this site is likely going to have some foot in the mouth/bad point moments....you included....but I'm not going to be a child about it and go rehash dumb points you -- or Guns - for that matter have made over the years. 

[Sunbelt15]

This was hashed and rehashed last week or so. Sultan is more or less correct on this one, IMO - Jamil is what he is. He's not necessarily underperforming based on his potential; he's underperforming based on our expectations. It's not mental weaknesses or physical limitations holding him back. He just doesn't seem to have that fire that one needs to really step up. MJ and Black Mamba had/have a fire to win. Jamil is a nice as hell guy that everyone just really wants to do well.

In other words, he's a average player. I feel the same way.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Nah...not upset....just find it childish and petty to search through people's post histories, or throw something out months and years later to point out foot in the mouth moments/points.  Anyone who has more than 30 posts on this site is likely going to have some foot in the mouth/bad point moments....you included....but I'm not going to be a child about it and go rehash dumb points you -- or Guns - for that matter have made over the years. 

I used your own words to illustrate a point.

It took about 5min. to find your post from about a month ago.

I don't think holding people accountable for what they say is childish.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[NersEllenson]

I used your own words to illustrate a point.

It took about 5min. to find your post from about a month ago.

I don't think holding people accountable for what they say is childish.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think being able to admit one is wrong (as I've done numerous times on this board regarding Vander) is far more adult, than your "accountability" quests. 

I certainly agree to disagree.

[Stretchdeltsig]

We just want to see Jamil play stronger to dominate in games.  He has all the tools to dominate.  A "dominator" is a "difference maker" and a "go to guy."  Come on Jamil!!!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think being able to admit one is wrong (as I've done numerous times on this board regarding Vander) is far more adult, than your "accountability" quests. 

I certainly agree to disagree.

Just to clarify my point, I didn't dig up your post because you were wrong (we are all wrong from time to time), but rather because you seem to be change your opinion to fit the debate. 

- When discussing Vander and DJ Newbill, you were highly critical of Vander's rebounding.

- When discussing Todd vs Trent Lockett, you imply that Vander's reduced rebounding is simply a positional issue that would change if Vander played SF and Todd played SG.

I'm busting your balls because you've changed your stance and attributed it to Vander's position. Problem is, Vander has been playing the same positional all year.

[tower912]

He showed up today and showed why some of us with overly high expectations for him.   He plays the rest of the year like he did against Pitt today and MU will be dangerous.   He and Blue played complete games.   And afterward, Blue called him the most talented player on the team.