Davante Out For Louisville?

[GGGG]

Look at it this way, its' a close game.  both teams are playing hard, both players are intensely battling for a loose ball.  The larger, stronger player has possession and position.  However, the opponent is draped over his shoulder/back and continues to harass and bang the bigger guy.  An aware ref immediately recognizes the situation and blows the whistle for a foul on the offending player.  Satisfied that he is being protected, the bigger guy starts walking to the line to the line to shoot FT's.  Timely whistle, no need for the big guy to try to protect/possess the rock, no flagrant foul on the big guy.  End of story.

Whoa...hold on here.

The ref did blow his whistle before the elbows were thrown.  I don't know if they called a foul on USF, or a tied up ball, but the whistle was blown.  I didn't even think that was in dispute here.

The flagrant foul negated whatever call was made.

[MU B2002]

But but but, this thread was destined to go on for another 5 pages.  Damnit.

TWITTER TRACKER!!!

MarquetteMBB ‏@MarquetteMBB
League officials reviewed Davante Gardner play vs. USF. Play was officiated correctly on court. No additional penalty. #mubb

[MileHigh]

TWITTER TRACKER!!!

MarquetteMBB ‏@MarquetteMBB
League officials reviewed Davante Gardner play vs. USF. Play was officiated correctly on court. No additional penalty. #mubb

So will the USF player be fined for flopping?

[TJ]

Jay Bilas has used every platform available at ESPN over the past fortnight discussing just how inconsistent officiating has become in college basketball. Not only is it leading to dangerous physical situations for kids but Bilas also believes it has become a primary reason why we're seeing offensive execution fall to such a low level.

No one said you can't complain about NCAA officiating in general, but last night's refs did nothing wrong in regards to the play in question.  The whining that whistles weren't blown fast enough, etc. is unwarranted.

[WarriorInNYC]

Because that's a ridiculous statement. He can't do that? Now we can't fight for the ball and we call anything that is a fast movement "violent"? Plus we have to have these automatic ejection and suspension rules because refs can't be trusted to make these judgement calls, so every little thing has to be decided by a way too specific rulebook situation.

You can't just say "he can't do that" without acknowledging the legitimate criticism at refs for being extremely inconsistent in how they let physical contact into games. But then drawing a ridiculously hard line about one play. He used his elbows to separate, he didn't punch him. Performing fast movements is not a synonym for "violent" and I'm sick of everyone saying refs can't be blamed for anything when it's their job to not allow a big scrum for the ball that ALWAYS leads to a move light Davante just did. What Davante did was no different than what EVERY player does when they get bombarded by a bunch opponents' hand checking, grabbing of their arms, pushing them off their pivot foot and finally reaching for the ball and pushing their elbows inside their chest to separate.

I understand your point here, but you are missing the message.  Davante threw his elbows, connected.  This according to the rulebook was a flagrant 2 and the ejection was necessary according to the rulebook.  The refs made the correct call on the floor.

It seems like the problem you have is with the rulebook, and not with the refs.  The refs followed their protocol correctly.  Whether or not the rule is a good rule is a different story.

[ATWizJr]

Whoa...hold on here.

The ref did blow his whistle before the elbows were thrown.  I don't know if they called a foul on USF, or a tied up ball, but the whistle was blown.  I didn't even think that was in dispute here.

The flagrant foul negated whatever call was made.

that is the issue.  when was the whistle blown, before or after the elbows were thrown.  If before, I fault Davante.  If after, I fault the refs for a late whistle.

[MU82]

TWITTER TRACKER!!!

MarquetteMBB ‏@MarquetteMBB
League officials reviewed Davante Gardner play vs. USF. Play was officiated correctly on court. No additional penalty. #mubb

We're having so much fun arguing that nobody has stopped to say:

Thank goodness!!!!!!!

With this ruling, both the refs and the league got it right. Isn't that all that matters?

[ATWizJr]

Glad he can play vs. 'ville.  thank you Jesus!

[Dr. Blackheart]

He didn't take a dive.  Just because there was a delay between the contact and the reaction in super-slow motion doesn't mean the guy took a dive.  He got hit in the face by Ox's elbow and he fell down, as most people would do in that situation.

Glad you can judge that as well.  I am also basing my observation in that he got up and sank two free throws.  Ox hit him on one swing-by no question and whiffed on the second and he suddenly fell on the whistle for the jump ball.  If you don't think he took a dive, and his reaction was delayed until coinicidently he got a whistle mixed in with a little embellishment, I think you are wrong based on watching live and in rerun.  So be it.  Guaranteed coaches teach their players to take the dive in those situations.  That is what I saw, two players playing hard through the whistle.  Either way, DG earned a F2 with the initial contact--dive or no dive.

[chapman]

It took the BE office less time to review and play and make a ruling than it took the officials to make the call last night.   

[TJ]

Glad you can judge that as well.  I am also basing my observation in that he got up and sank two free throws.  Ox hit him on one swing-by no question and whiffed on the second and he suddenly fell on the whistle for the jump ball.  If you don't think he took a dive, and his reaction was delayed until coinicidently he got a whistle mixed in with a little embellishment, I think you are wrong based on watching live and in rerun.  So be it.  Guaranteed coaches teach their players to take the dive in those situations.  That is what I saw, two players playing hard through the whistle.  Either way, DG earned a F2 with the initial contact--dive or no dive.

While I would like to point out that taking one on the jaw would not prevent someone from sinking free throws a few minutes later, I cannot comment any further than that.  I haven't seen the play in 12 hours and I can't find a replay online.  So believe what you want to believe.  I choose to think that a guy who gets hit on the jaw and then pauses a moment before falling down doesn't qualify as a flop.  This is a flop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0upQDkY-pg

[Dawson Rental]

Can't blame the officials for this one.  Can't blame Davante, or even the South Florida guy for taking a flop.  Those clearly at fault here are the BMO Harris Bradley Center officials who had the bat removed before the game.  The bat would have buzzed the South Florida guy and had him on the ground before Davante would have had a chance to throw an elbow.

[Aughnanure]

I understand your point here, but you are missing the message.  Davante threw his elbows, connected.  This according to the rulebook was a flagrant 2 and the ejection was necessary according to the rulebook.  The refs made the correct call on the floor.

It seems like the problem you have is with the rulebook, and not with the refs.  The refs followed their protocol correctly.  Whether or not the rule is a good rule is a different story.

And the rulebook is there because refs couldnt be trusted to make their own decisions. Chicken before the egg to me, but I certainly don't like removing referee culpability from dumb rules.

[Aughnanure]

 
It's simple.

You can't punch a guy...you can't kick a guy....you can't throw an elbow that lands above the shoulders.  It's a rule.

Hardly ridiculous.  

One of these things is not like the other.

[GGGG]

They are all rules.  Ergo, they are all the same when it comes to the refs call.

[tower912]

DG made contact to the opponents face with his elbows while swinging them.   Regardless of any other context, that is by definition a Flagrant 2.   The officials got this one absolutely right, as opposed to, for example, telling Buzz that Gardner had been knocked over by the basketball, as opposed to a defender flying into his chest with his knee.   THAT call was blown.    This call was correct. 

[Aughnanure]

They are all rules.  Ergo, they are all the same when it comes to the refs call.

If the refs ever called every foul they were supposed to according to the rulebook I would take this point seriously - and Gardner would not have been in the situation he was.

[tower912]

But this is one that gets reviewed on the monitor.   They saw the same replay those of us watching at home saw.   They made their call based on that.   And they got it right. 

[Aughnanure]

But this is one that gets reviewed on the monitor.   They saw the same replay those of us watching at home saw.   They made their call based on that.   And they got it right. 

Then they also would have seen hands all over Gardner and fouls before that play. But those calls aren't reviewable.  The calls refs don't make are generally the most impactful ones.

[tower912]

I don't dispute that.  I also believe that sometimes officiating dictates outcomes.   All an official has to do is miss two block/charge calls on the same star player and the entire flow of the game is impacted.    But THIS call was the correct one. 

[Aughnanure]

I don't dispute that.  I also believe that sometimes officiating dictates outcomes.   All an official has to do is miss two block/charge calls on the same star player and the entire flow of the game is impacted.    But THIS call was the correct one. 

By the rule. Yes.

[GGGG]

Then they also would have seen hands all over Gardner and fouls before that play. But those calls aren't reviewable.  The calls refs don't make are generally the most impactful ones.

They made a call....again, I am not sure if it was a tie-up or a USF foul, but the flagrant negated that call.  If Davante wouldn't have swung his elbows, the original call would have stood.

[ATWizJr]

They made a call....again, I am not sure if it was a tie-up or a USF foul, but the flagrant negated that call.  If Davante wouldn't have swung his elbows, the original call would have stood.

I believe the whistle was not blown twice and that when it finally was blown Davante stopped his activity and started walking toward our offensive end as the possession arrow was in our favor.  He clearly thought that a tie-up was called.  I wish I had kept the the game tape.  anybody got it?

[Aughnanure]

I believe the whistle was not blown twice and that when it finally was blown Davante stopped his activity and started walking toward our offensive end as the possession arrow was in our favor.  He clearly thought that a tie-up was called.  I wish I had kept the the game tape.  anybody got it?

ESPN3 does replays.

[wojosdojo]

ESPN3 does replays.

WatchESPN also saves every ESPN game on your device.