[Rosiak's Blog] MU notes

[jmayer1]

The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.  

MU Fans:  We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans:  Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.

I disagree with this and I believe so do a lot of others.  I don't think Marquette should have been signed this deal in a year when they are traveling to UW and Maui.  Playing at Texas next year and then a home game the following year would have been fine with me.

[mu_hilltopper]

(I think that depends on how the UT season ticket holders perceive the value of their games.  Looks like last year,  UT had 9 OOC games, of which 7 were RPI 200+.  If 2 high-interest homers aren't enough for them, then they probably wanted MU playing anywhere, whoever gets to go first.  In that regard, MU and UT ticket holders may calculate similarly.)

.. but I agree w/jmayer1. Wonder if setting this in motion for next year was an option.

[Djgoldnboy]

The Texas match up would have been fun, two very talented point guards going against each other with the same name.  Oh well I can understand not wanting another road trip this year.

[Harrison]

Spencer Hawes
Jon Brockman
Martell Webster
Micah Downs
Marcus Williams
Josh Heytvelt (police blotter aside)
C.J. Giles
David Pendergraft
Aaron Brooks
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Kevin Love
Kyle Singler
Isaiah Thomas (no, not him)


This list means nothing...10 players over 5-6-7 years?  So waht?  Look at it they either stayed local or went to huge programs ala Duke, UclA etc.  We can get the same type of players locally and not try to convince them to go acroos the country to school.  Most kids that do go all the way across the country just like on that list do it to go to UNC, DUKE, Kansas etc.   That list makes no sense.   Giving up a home game to play Gonzaga at the UC is ajoke and MU rejected it as that.  Rent the UC to get 8k Mu fans there?!  Dont compare it to the 14k at a depaul game at the Rosemont.  I have been to at least 15 of those games.  Yes Mu shows very well but there are also at least 5-6-7-8k Depaul fans there to get the number to 14K, take them away at the UC and you take a fat cash cow gate at the bradley Center and turn it into a huge loser at the UC.  How many casula Basketball fans are ging to go watch Gonzaga in Chicago?  Remeber the old MU- Depaul games with 5000 people at the UC?  All Mu fans what ajoke.  At least Depaul took the bath on that one.   And how impressive would it be for a recruit to go to the game with 5000 people in a 25000 seat stadium??  Better off bringing them up for the ND game or pittsburgh etc. at the Bradley.  That offer was a lose lose, Mu i am sure rejected it in approx. 1 second.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not in '07-'08 we're not. MU is only home against DePaul this year, no date in Chicago.

Everyone seems to not realize that while we would let Gonzaga on "our turf", you fail to forget that MU would also get to go on Gonzaga's "turf" as well.

With Crean starting to recruit more nationally, and considering that Seattle puts out some good basketball talent, I don't think this would have been a bad thing.

Is Seattle a fertile recruiting mecca like Chicago is?   No

Is Seattle/Pacific Northwest a good place to recruit? I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes. No, it's not Chicago, but I think you could come up with some talent from this list. Maybe it's just me, but it might be worth a look.

Spencer Hawes
Jon Brockman
Martell Webster
Micah Downs
Marcus Williams
Josh Heytvelt (police blotter aside)
C.J. Giles
David Pendergraft
Aaron Brooks
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Kevin Love
Kyle Singler
Isaiah Thomas (no, not him)

Edit: I forgot to add Adam Morrison to the list too.

Dish, the ROI isn't there.  Northwest guys by and large go to Pac Ten schools or western regional schools.  MU is going to get kids from Illinois, specifically Chicago, the rest of the Midwest and the East Coast.

Yes there is talent in the Seattle area, but then again many of the guys you listed aren't from Seattle but from the state of Washington or Oregon.  I'd rather keep Chicago to MU and the rest of the Midwestern schools then invite another school into the area that has already landed some Illinois talent like Pargo.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought the "charter jet" was being discounted heavily to MU for recruiting.

I think you're right, KO and Deane did not have that luxury recruiting.

KO did charter the team to some games as did Deane on rare occasion, but not like today.  That's part of the gig....first class program is going to demand those types of perks.

[Dish]

Spencer Hawes
Jon Brockman
Martell Webster
Micah Downs
Marcus Williams
Josh Heytvelt (police blotter aside)
C.J. Giles
David Pendergraft
Aaron Brooks
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Kevin Love
Kyle Singler
Isaiah Thomas (no, not him)


This list means nothing...10 players over 5-6-7 years?  So waht?  Look at it they either stayed local or went to huge programs ala Duke, UclA etc.  We can get the same type of players locally and not try to convince them to go acroos the country to school.  Most kids that do go all the way across the country just like on that list do it to go to UNC, DUKE, Kansas etc.   That list makes no sense.   Giving up a home game to play Gonzaga at the UC is ajoke and MU rejected it as that.  Rent the UC to get 8k Mu fans there?!  Dont compare it to the 14k at a depaul game at the Rosemont.  I have been to at least 15 of those games.  Yes Mu shows very well but there are also at least 5-6-7-8k Depaul fans there to get the number to 14K, take them away at the UC and you take a fat cash cow gate at the bradley Center and turn it into a huge loser at the UC.  How many casula Basketball fans are ging to go watch Gonzaga in Chicago?  Remeber the old MU- Depaul games with 5000 people at the UC?  All Mu fans what ajoke.  At least Depaul took the bath on that one.   And how impressive would it be for a recruit to go to the game with 5000 people in a 25000 seat stadium??  Better off bringing them up for the ND game or pittsburgh etc. at the Bradley.  That offer was a lose lose, Mu i am sure rejected it in approx. 1 second.

This list makes sense if you go back and read the original post.  Put that list back in with the context of the posts, and it makes all the sense in the world. Is MU going to go out and actively recruit those players? Heck no. Saying Chicago is a mecca for recruiting, and Seattle is fertile, is exactly where this list comes into play. Take it for what it's worth.

Again, MU wouldn't be renting out the UC (or Allstate or Sears Centre...there are other places in Chicago you know), a promoter does that. Is it more impressive to bring a recruit up to the BC? Absolutely, get 'em on campus and at a home game. Does it hurt to play in Chicago, during a season when you don't have a game there otherwise? Absolutely not.

[Marquette84]

The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.  

MU Fans:  We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans:  Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.

I disagree with this and I believe so do a lot of others.  I don't think Marquette should have been signed this deal in a year when they are traveling to UW and Maui.  Playing at Texas next year and then a home game the following year would have been fine with me.

In other words, you're willing to give Texas a two year pass on playing us in Milwaukee?

MU proposed playing at Texas in '08 (just as you suggest).  But MU wanted Texas to come to Milwaukee in 2007.  You say it's fine by you if Texas delays that 2007 game until 2009. 

My point was that MU fans seem too willing to accept the subservient position that we should give in to Texas, rather than vice versa.




 

[tower912]

Steve Novak and Brian Barone got married?   Kind of a dangling participle there, but I will assume not to each other.   

[77ncaachamps]

Steve Novak and Brian Barone got married?   Kind of a dangling participle there, but I will assume not to each other.   

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. But back to the matter of recruiting in WA...

I see Dish's point. It's a valid one. Seattle and the Northwest is a becoming a hotbed for recruits. Even though Chicago is traditionally a source of prepsters, the Northwest has spawned the following NBAers: Jason Terry, Marvin Williams, Brandon Roy, Nate Robinson, Fred Jones, and the Stoudamires (Damon and Salim) just to name a few.

But in terms of recruiting nationwide, Gonzaga has us beat. HECK, even WORLDWIDE, Gonzaga's done better!

There's a mystique about Gonzaga...even though it doesn't fit anymore - at least to me, they still seem like a "Cinderella" though they play tough non-conference games.

Which brings up a similar yet divergent question: Is there ANY mystique to MU's program?

[Schoolyard]

The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.  

MU Fans:  We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans:  Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.

I disagree with this and I believe so do a lot of others.  I don't think Marquette should have been signed this deal in a year when they are traveling to UW and Maui.  Playing at Texas next year and then a home game the following year would have been fine with me.

In other words, you're willing to give Texas a two year pass on playing us in Milwaukee?

MU proposed playing at Texas in '08 (just as you suggest).  But MU wanted Texas to come to Milwaukee in 2007.  You say it's fine by you if Texas delays that 2007 game until 2009. 

My point was that MU fans seem too willing to accept the subservient position that we should give in to Texas, rather than vice versa.




 

Or maybe MU fans just want more good preconf games and less Savannah States and we're willing to wait to 2009.  Sometimes it's about getting the deal done, not just winning the deal.

As for Gonzaga...thousands and thousands of MU alums in Chi might argue that playing there would be a good thing.  Forget about showcasing The Zags to Chicago, how about reaffirming our place as the best option of Chicago preps?  I could careless about recruiting in Seattle, heck I could careless about recruiting in NYC (I say lock up Chicago & surrounding and you're fine).
And do people really think one game in Chicago is going to erase huge obstacles like the distance to Spokane, the culture of eastern Washington and the non BCS conference?

[muhoosier260]

yes another top program matchup would nothing but good things for this program, but i'm proud of MU for not backing down against these schools that thought they could push us around.

[ecompt]

Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.

[muhoosier260]

Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.

c'mon, pepperdine has made the tournament in the last decade...i think

[NYWarrior]

As for Gonzaga...thousands and thousands of MU alums in Chi might argue that playing there would be a good thing.  Forget about showcasing The Zags to Chicago, how about reaffirming our place as the best option of Chicago preps?  I could careless about recruiting in Seattle, heck I could careless about recruiting in NYC (I say lock up Chicago & surrounding and you're fine).
And do people really think one game in Chicago is going to erase huge obstacles like the distance to Spokane, the culture of eastern Washington and the non BCS conference?

Never give up a true home game.....not with an 18 game Big East slate staring you in the face.

[77ncaachamps]

Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.

Gonzaga has been successful in pulling recruits not only in their immediate region but also from all over the continent and globe. Marquette is beginning to lure more recruits from outside their Great Lakes/Midwest region.

The WCC may be a joke but their program has been as successful - if not more - than MU's in the past decade:

NCAA/NITs
1996-7 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga none
1997-8 - Marquette Third Round NIT; Gonzaga none
1998-9 - Marquette none; Gonzaga Elite Eight NCAA
1999-0 - Marquette First Round NIT; Gonzaga Sweet Sixteen NCAA
2000-1 - Marquette none; Gonzaga Sweet Sixteen NCAA
2001-2 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga First Round NCAA
2002-3 - Marquette Final Four NCAA; Gonzaga Second Round NCAA
2003-4 - Marquette Third Round NIT; Gonzaga Second Round NCAA
2004-5 - Marquette First Round NIT; Gonzaga Second Round NCAA
2005-6 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga Third Round NCAA
2006-7 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga First Round NCAA

And granted while the WCC is no Big East, it's still an accomplishment when Gonzaga has claimed the WCC Championship from 1998 - 2007!!!

[Secret of the Ouse]

I don't know why everyone is making such a huge deal about this when Crean has already gone on the record in saying that on the years we play UW away, that will be our only true road non-conference game

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.

Who cares? I don't get this false sense of worth because we're in the Big East. Do you think Marquette gets the same amount of national recognition that Gonzaga does? If you do, you're crazy. Gonzaga is a bigger name than Marquette right now, whether you want to admit it or not.

As a matter of fact, I would bet that a vast majority of college basketball fans have no idea we're even in the Big East. We're thought of as the place where Al McGuire coached, Dwyane Wade attended and as the school that embarrassingly changed a perfectly good nickname. Gonzaga is known as a school that is in the NCAA every year and is a team NOBODY wants to face in the first round, regardless of seed.

I would MUCH, MUCH rather make the NCAA every year than play in the Big East.

[mu_hilltopper]

Other numbers for those 11 seasons:

NCAA Appearances: MU 5, GU 9 straight
NIT Appearances: MU 4, GU 0
NCAA Wins: MU 4, GU 12
NCAA One and Dones: MU 4 of 5, GU 2 of 9.
FFs: MU 1, GU 0.

[Chili]

Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.

Who cares? I don't get this false sense of worth because we're in the Big East. Do you think Marquette gets the same amount of national recognition that Gonzaga does? If you do, you're crazy. Gonzaga is a bigger name than Marquette right now, whether you want to admit it or not.

As a matter of fact, I would bet that a vast majority of college basketball fans have no idea we're even in the Big East. We're thought of as the place where Al McGuire coached, Dwyane Wade attended and as the school that embarrassingly changed a perfectly good nickname. Gonzaga is known as a school that is in the NCAA every year and is a team NOBODY wants to face in the first round, regardless of seed.

I would MUCH, MUCH rather make the NCAA every year than play in the Big East.

The only thing is that in Big East you have a chance to win a National Title. As great as Gonzaga is, I don't think they have much of a shot of winning one. Being in the Big East gives Marquette that shot as it gives them a recruiting edge.

I heard a stat a while back that every national championship going back something like 10 years has had at least 3 NBA players on it. I would be hard pressed to see Gonzaga have that happen while I think MU could.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let's be fair guys, Gonzaga has a much easier road to the NCAAs then MU has, even when MU was in CUSA.

Gonzaga essentially has 13 wins before the season starts in conference play alone.  They rarely lose more than 2 or 3 games in conference.

What they've done is terrific, but they also are in a unique position to dominate a conference that has few resources where other schools are not likely to challenge.  Gonzaga was very smart to exploit that in the WCC.  Some schools like Santa Clara and USD are saying they want to challenge, but until the money really backs up their comments I won't believe it until I see it.

I think the poster that said Gonzaga would be .500 in the Big East might be right, I'd say slightly over .500 probably similar to where MU has been the last few years.

Let's put it this way, if MU was in the WCC instead of Gonzaga, MU would be going to the NCAAs every year as well.   It's setup much the way UNLV used to plow through the Big West each year.


In the last 10 years, Gonzaga had one year they lost 4 conference games, two years they lost 3 and every other year it was either undefeated or 1 loss.

[Pakuni]

I would MUCH, MUCH rather make the NCAA every year than play in the Big East.

Wait ... the guy who constantly is griping about MU's schedule now would trade his tickets for games against UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Notre Dame, Georgetown and Syracuse for one against the likes of Portland, St. Mary's, San Diego, Santa Clara and Loyola-Marymount?

Hmmm. Somehow this statement doesn't ring remotely true. But in case I'm wrong, perhaps you can petition to athletic department about joining the Horizon League. And be sure to tell them you won't complain about those big February matchups with Cleveland State and UIC.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I have complained about our NON-CONFERENCE!!!! schedule, Einstein. You do understand that those are the games MU has control over, right? But it's great that you enjoy paying paying for tickets for the Hillsdale and Cardinal Stritch games. 

By the way, we haven't won an NCAA game in four years.

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Sorry PRN--possibly steroids, I don't know--but Pakuni crushed that one, outta the park.

[StillAWarrior]

I have complained about our NON-CONFERENCE!!!! schedule, Einstein. You do understand that those are the games MU has control over, right? But it's great that you enjoy paying paying for tickets for the Hillsdale and Cardinal Stritch games.

I understand your point, but here's what the Gonzaga faithful have paid for recently:

2006-2007
Eastern Washington
Rice
Baylor
Texas-San Antonio
Idaho
Portland State
Washington
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
San Francisco
San Diego
Saint Mary's
Santa Clara
Portland

2005-2006
Idaho
Portland State
Washington State
Virginia
Eastern Washington
St. Josephs
Pepperdine
Loyola Marymount
Portland
Santa Clara
St. Mary's
Stanford
San Diego
San Francisco

2004-200
Portland State
Montana
Idaho
Washington
St. Louis
Eastern Washington
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
Portland
St. Mary's
Santa Clara
San Diego
San Francisco
Northern Colorado


Not sure I'd want to pay for those slates.  A few decent games, but basically trash.  So, you can say what you want about games that MU has control over, but at least they decided to join a decent conference and bring top flight competition into the BC.  I think there's very little disagreement on this board about whether we'd like to see better non-con games, but I think most would rather see a Big East slate with non-con dogs than Gonzaga's slate.  I'm sure MU could probably leave the Big East and get into a third-rate conference if they wanted, and then NEED a decent non-con schedule to try to throw together a decent RPI and impressive wins, but I'd rather be where we are right now--even if it means missing out on the NCAAs some years.