2013 MLB Thread

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Because Bonds and Braun are almost comparable....

Lets look at Berry's picture as a rookie, and then 10 years later.

Then let's do the same for Ryan. (yes he hasn't been in the league that long, but you get the point)

How do you explain his numbers from last year then?

[JD]

I really don't know much about roids or PED's, or the difference between them.  Sorry, i thought size was a good example.

How do you explain the numbers then?

[🏀]

I really don't know much about roids or PED's, or the difference between them.  Sorry, i thought size was a good example.

How do you explain the numbers then?

How does anyone know he wasn't still juicing?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I really don't know much about roids or PED's, or the difference between them.  Sorry, i thought size was a good example.

How do you explain the numbers then?

Size is no longer a good indicator. Guys know they can't grow 4 hat sizes without somebody becoming suspicious.

But, guys can take supplements/PEDs in the off season that will make them stronger (not necessarily bigger) and during the season guys may use something that helps them remain healthy and in peak condition for all 162.

If you look at the list of guys who have been "caught", its not all McGwuire/Caminiti/Bonds types.

In fact, years ago, a skinny former Brewer named Alex Sanchez was busted.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2029037

As far as Braun, if he had a terrible year last year, it wouldn't confirm that he did it. If he had a big year (like he had) it doesn't confirm that he didn't do it. Performance on the field is not a perfect 1:1 indicator. A urine or blood test is the best indicator, but still obviously has it's flaws.

[NavinRJohnson]

The days of the over the top HGH, Steroid freaks like Bonds, Sosa, MacGuire are over.in my baseball world, al l are guilty until proven innocent, which is why I no longer care.

It is odd to me that nobody bats an eye at guys like Clay Matthews, JJ Watt, Suh, Briggs, Willis...everyone right down to the friggin punter, but when it comes to baseball we get all the feigned indignation. It just makes no sense to me.

[Benny B]

Assuming Bonds and Braun are both guilty of what the general public thinks they are, the difference between the two is quite easily explained: Bonds used PEDs to enhance his performance on the field; Braun used PED's to enhance the "performance" of his body's healing process.

Bonds was not a power hitter when he came into the league.  Granted he was a very good baseball player, but no one in 1987 would have ever predicted he would break the season and career HR records (except maybe himself).  He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history.  That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.

Braun's numbers have been level since he joined the ranks of professional baseball.  He averaged 34 HR's per 162 in the minors and 37 per 162 in six ML seasons.  His BA in 2011 was only 8 points higher than it was his rookie year.  The only numbers that did improve drastically recently were his SB numbers, but even if you don't attribute that primarily to managerial strategy, would an MLB player of Braun's caliber risk his paycheck by taking PED's simply to run faster?  Honestly, if Braun took PED's to enhance his performance, he really needs to be asking for his money back.

Again, assuming the rumors are true, Bonds and Braun are both cheaters.  But one cheated the game and his fellow players, while the other simply cheated Yahweh.  So unless you think you're God, it's quite shortsighted to lump Braun and Bonds into the same category.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history.  That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.

Luis Gonzalez hit 40 HR above his 10-year average of 16.4 that exact same year and never hit 30 again.  Bonds is not as completely exclusive as you make him out to be.

[GGGG]

Assuming Bonds and Braun are both guilty of what the general public thinks they are, the difference between the two is quite easily explained: Bonds used PEDs to enhance his performance on the field; Braun used PED's to enhance the "performance" of his body's healing process.

Bonds was not a power hitter when he came into the league.  Granted he was a very good baseball player, but no one in 1987 would have ever predicted he would break the season and career HR records (except maybe himself).  He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history.  That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.

Braun's numbers have been level since he joined the ranks of professional baseball.  He averaged 34 HR's per 162 in the minors and 37 per 162 in six ML seasons.  His BA in 2011 was only 8 points higher than it was his rookie year.  The only numbers that did improve drastically recently were his SB numbers, but even if you don't attribute that primarily to managerial strategy, would an MLB player of Braun's caliber risk his paycheck by taking PED's simply to run faster?  Honestly, if Braun took PED's to enhance his performance, he really needs to be asking for his money back.

Again, assuming the rumors are true, Bonds and Braun are both cheaters.  But one cheated the game and his fellow players, while the other simply cheated Yahweh.  So unless you think you're God, it's quite shortsighted to lump Braun and Bonds into the same category.

Unless Braun has been using since college.

[MerrittsMustache]

Unless Braun has been using since college.

You mean when he trained with Jimmy Goins? No way!

[Benny B]

Unless Braun has been using since college.

Originally, I had put that in my last post, but I deleted it out before posting... that is a possibility; however, it would be difficult to reconcile that prospect with the fact that MLB themselves have touted how Braun was tested on numerous occasions and judged clean.

[BrewCity83]

You guys must believe that Braun's been juicing the whole time and beating all of the tests ala Lance Armstrong.  If that's the case, why all the hate towards Braun?  The whole league must be doing it right along with him. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Assuming Bonds and Braun are both guilty of what the general public thinks they are, the difference between the two is quite easily explained: Bonds used PEDs to enhance his performance on the field; Braun used PED's to enhance the "performance" of his body's healing process.

Bonds was not a power hitter when he came into the league.  Granted he was a very good baseball player, but no one in 1987 would have ever predicted he would break the season and career HR records (except maybe himself).  He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history.  That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.

Braun's numbers have been level since he joined the ranks of professional baseball.  He averaged 34 HR's per 162 in the minors and 37 per 162 in six ML seasons.  His BA in 2011 was only 8 points higher than it was his rookie year.  The only numbers that did improve drastically recently were his SB numbers, but even if you don't attribute that primarily to managerial strategy, would an MLB player of Braun's caliber risk his paycheck by taking PED's simply to run faster?  Honestly, if Braun took PED's to enhance his performance, he really needs to be asking for his money back.

Again, assuming the rumors are true, Bonds and Braun are both cheaters.  But one cheated the game and his fellow players, while the other simply cheated Yahweh.  So unless you think you're God, it's quite shortsighted to lump Braun and Bonds into the same category.

What?

Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. If Braun's PEDs helped him to stay healthy, that certainly is cheating.

You want an example: Joe Mauer. If Mauer could stay healthy for 162 games and catch everyday, he'd be top 5 player because a catcher who can bat .350 has TREMENDOUS value.

Truth is, Joe struggles to stay healthy, and that greatly limits his impact.

Braun has had a couple of nagging injuries over the years. If he used something that helped him recover quicker on a day to day basis, you can bet that helped his performance and made him more valuable.

Braun is not some 90's steroid freak, but that doesn't mean he's clean.

[jesmu84]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8945988/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-shows-additional-document-clinic-linked-major-league-baseball-ped-investigation

Braun again.

[buckchuckler]

Worst PED argument ever. He's not big enough!

Size has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it.

What's to say he hasn't been juicing since his college days in ... wait for it... Miami! 

[🏀]

What's to say he hasn't been juicing since his college days in ... wait for it... Miami! 

The University of Miami is an outstanding place of higher education, I would never...

[Spotcheck Billy]

Ouch! Mat Gamel already out for the year, do ACL surgeries come with a warranty?

[Benny B]

Ouch! Matt Gamel already out for the year, do ACL surgeries come with a warranty?

Wow... and Mat Gamel is out, too.  How's that for coincidence.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bonds used roids, makes your body change in size.  Other PEDS don't have that same impact, thus the comparison of size of Braun to Bonds doesn't mean Braun didn't do it just because he isn't as big.  Lance Armstrong wasn't big either.  A lot of stuff going on out there there that helps you heal faster, etc, but not necessarily adding mass or bulk.

[JD]

Any Brewer fans know how much like a 10 game package in the 2nd tier or lower would cost for 2 seats?  Thinking about getting a small package.

Thanks.

[Benny B]

Any Brewer fans know how much like a 10 game package in the 2nd tier or lower would cost for 2 seats?  Thinking about getting a small package.

Thanks.

$300-500 per seat.

[JD]

$300-500 per seat.

3-5 for a 10 game package?  That's not too bad, thanks Benny.

[jesmu84]

lacking a little credibility/professionalism, but....

http://daps.tv/source-robinson-cano-alex-rodriguez-ryan-braun-and-curtis-granderson-to-be-suspended/

[NavinRJohnson]

lacking a little credibility/professionalism, but....

http://daps.tv/source-robinson-cano-alex-rodriguez-ryan-braun-and-curtis-granderson-to-be-suspended/

Yeah, no.

[🏀]

Yeah, no.

He got it right for Melky...

[NavinRJohnson]

Lets suppose this is correct, I have to ask how these suspensions would be good for baseball? As I I have said before, probably in this thread, I just don't care if these guys are using testosterone or whatever else. It's the same game, they still get three strikes, three outs, etc. I want to watch good baseball players play baseball. PED use is rampant in the NFL. Everyone knows it, and nobody cares, including the league. I just don't quite understand why  it's different for baseball. Actually, maybe I do. Is it because the Bonds, Sosas, and McGuires of the world were so over the top with it? I suppose I get that, but I'd also say those days of steroids, HGH, etc. seem to be gone. I also get that I admittedly present a position that is difficult to reconcile, but I assume 75%+ of baseball players are doing something, and I just don't care.