What happened to Lockett?

[MerrittsMustache]

Yep. I did the same thing. I extrapolated his numbers and thought I knew what MU was getting (off some videos and stats).

I was wrong. He's a nice role player and appears to be a good kid and leader.

Glad to have him, but I my expectations were just too high.

If MU wants to win big games, Lockett and Jamil have to be significantly better than they have been... I'm crossing my fingers... but I'm not calling Vegas.

I was in on the "stat extrapolation" crowd as well.

Lockett played in a slow, deliberate system at Arizona State and that fit his game very well. MU is a bit more helter skelter which doesn't necessarily play to his strengths. In 87 games at ASU, he averaged 10.8 ppg but took over 12 shots just 5 times (DJO took over 12 shots in 19 games last season, Jae 18 games). Traditionally, he's been an efficient scorer, not a volume scorer. Just because he isn't going to score 14, 16, 20 a night that doesn't mean he's not contributing or that he should be sitting on the bench. I'm very happy that he's on the team and he is going to be a big contributor in BE play. However, his game would actually fit very nicely about 90 minutes west.

[NersEllenson]

Come on...Mayo put together a decent game against a creampuff.  Wait until we play a real team and let's see how he does.  Hopefully he will continue to play well, but I'm not sold based on playing NCC.

The day Trent Lockett or Vander Blue for that matter - shows me a wicked crossover, between the legs, step back 3 - is the day I'll retire from MU Scoop.

Mayo has more game than any of the perimeter players on MU..period...creampuff or not.  Mayo showed up pretty big in last year's NCAA tourney, and several big games during the season.  The form on his jumper is pure, he's crafty with the basketball, and will even stick his nose in with the bigs for rebounds/putbacks.

I expect that Todd will be the team's 2nd leading scorer in conference play...possibly leading scorer if teams play zone and pack it in on Davante.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I was in on the "stat extrapolation" crowd as well.

Lockett played in a slow, deliberate system at Arizona State and that fit his game very well. MU is a bit more helter skelter which doesn't necessarily play to his strengths. In 87 games at ASU, he averaged 10.8 ppg but took over 12 shots just 5 times (DJO took over 12 shots in 19 games last season, Jae 18 games). Traditionally, he's been an efficient scorer, not a volume scorer. Just because he isn't going to score 14, 16, 20 a night that doesn't mean he's not contributing or that he should be sitting on the bench. I'm very happy that he's on the team and he is going to be a big contributor in BE play. However, his game would actually fit very nicely about 90 minutes west.

Agree on all accounts.

With this said, if Trent was super efficient and scoring 10ppg, I'd be happy. The problem is that he is shooting .395, which horrible compared to his career numbers.

The addition of Mayo might actually make Trent better. Let Trent play 20min. and shoot 3-6 or 4-7 from the field and play defense and rebound. It's similar to what he's doing now, but more efficient because he can be a little pickier about his shot selection.

I don't think Mayo is a great shooter, but he's better at finding his own shot and shooting a higher volume of shots.

[GGGG]

The addition of Mayo might actually make Trent better. Let Trent play 20min. and shoot 3-6 or 4-7 from the field and play defense and rebound. It's similar to what he's doing now, but more efficient because he can be a little pickier about his shot selection.

Agree with this completely.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The day Trent Lockett or Vander Blue for that matter - shows me a wicked crossover, between the legs, step back 3 - is the day I'll retire from MU Scoop.

I know I'm being a dick here, but nobody on this team should be shooting a shot like that. It's a low percentage shot regardless of who takes it. DJO made a few like that because the clock was running down.

There are open shots in this offense, but guys have to make them. I know that sounds stupid, but it's true.

I haven't seen players jacking up highly contested jumpers. I have seen guys hesitate to shoot open shots, and I've seen guys miss handfuls of open shots.

[MerrittsMustache]

Agree on all accounts.

With this said, if Trent was super efficient and scoring 10ppg, I'd be happy. The problem is that he is shooting .395, which horrible compared to his career numbers.

The addition of Mayo might actually make Trent better. Let Trent play 20min. and shoot 3-6 or 4-7 from the field and play defense and rebound. It's similar to what he's doing now, but more efficient because he can be a little pickier about his shot selection.

I don't think Mayo is a great shooter, but he's better at finding his own shot and shooting a higher volume of shots.

I agree.

Lockett did have a rough 3-game stretch against UMBC, Florida and UW where he shot 6-24 with 10 TOs. Aside from those 3 games, he's shooting 46% from the floor and has shot 10-21 in the 4 games since.

A key to MU's success this season could end up being Lockett's ability to get to the FT line. He averaged twice as many FT attempts last season as he has this season, despite ASU's significantly slower pace. If he can get inside and draw contact regularly, that could be another 2-4 points per game for MU, which might not seem like much but could make a very big difference in the course of a game.

[keefe]

You do not have an appreciation for what Lockett does on the floor.

You're right. Most of us do not appreciate his underperformance and are pleased to have Mayo back.

[GGGG]

What is going on here in this thread is what always goes on in Scoop.  Seriously having Mayo back is wonderful, but we are going nuts with the predictions here.  Last year he was just percentage points a better shooter than Blue, and the *fourth* best three point shooter on the team.  And now people are acting like he is the Messiah after a solid outing against North Carolina Central?

Look, he is another piece.  A significant piece.  But crazy predictions are what leads to people being inevitably disappointed in performance.

[Skatastrophy]

You're right. Most of us do not appreciate his underperformance and are pleased to have Mayo back.

At the same time, I am waiting patiently for Lockett to find his motivation and get a little more aggressive.  The more competition in practice, the better!

[GGGG]

You're right. Most of us do not appreciate his underperformance and are pleased to have Mayo back.

Underperformance when compared to their own ill-conceived predictions of what their performance should be.  Again, this isn't an either/or discussion.  Both Mayo and Lockett have skills and both can contribute to the success of this team.

At the same time, I am waiting patiently for Lockett to find his motivation and get a little more aggressive.  The more competition in practice, the better!

So you think he isn't motivated now?  Based on what?

[NersEllenson]

What is going on here in this thread is what always goes on in Scoop.  Seriously having Mayo back is wonderful, but we are going nuts with the predictions here.  Last year he was just percentage points a better shooter than Blue, and the *fourth* best three point shooter on the team.  And now people are acting like he is the Messiah after a solid outing against North Carolina Central?

Look, he is another piece.  A significant piece.  But crazy predictions are what leads to people being inevitably disappointed in performance.

Mayo may have some off shooting nights, but personally I won't be disappointed because the body of his work at the season's end will prove he's the best perimeter player MU has on the team.  He simply has more game than any of the other perimeter players for MU.

Does MU even beat NCC without Mayo??  Also believe MU probably beats UWGB with Mayo.  All this said, I'd have no problem with MU running a lineup out there of Cadougan, Blue and Mayo night in, night out and bringing Lockett off the bench.  Yet I see Buzz rolling Mayo and possibly Jake Thomas out together with 2nd unit/Gardner as they need to be on the floor when Gardner is in the game, as it will ease some of the zone/doubles/triples Davante faces.

[Skatastrophy]

So you think he isn't motivated now?  Based on what?

I don't feel like he has the confidence to be a senior leader on this team.  I don't feel like he has the confidence to take over a game.  He hasn't shown the confidence to drive to the basket and absorb some contact, like we know he can do.

He's still feeling out MU's team.  Hopefully having better competition in practice will get him motivated to play more aggressively.  I'd like to see him motivated enough to try and be *the* guy from time to time instead of feeling content to be a role player.  The fact that he hasn't  gotten a SOTG is telling for a senior.

I mean, look at this guy!  I haven't seen him drive that hard all year!
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/m1kgTuqe5Tc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/m1kgTuqe5Tc</a>

[tower912]

What is going on here in this thread is what always goes on in Scoop.  Seriously having Mayo back is wonderful, but we are going nuts with the predictions here.  Last year he was just percentage points a better shooter than Blue, and the *fourth* best three point shooter on the team.  And now people are acting like he is the Messiah after a solid outing against North Carolina Central?

Look, he is another piece.  A significant piece.  But crazy predictions are what leads to people being inevitably disappointed in performance.

I do appreciate what Trent can and cannot do.   We have been watching the same games and I endeavor to do so without bias about what I am seeing from the MU players on both ends of the court.   For example, I have been in agreement with you about Vander's game being much more than points.  And watching the games objectively, other than rebounding, Jake brings everything to the table that Trent does.   Mayo brings speed and aggressiveness that both seem to be lacking.   Of course Mayo is going to have bad games, but he is going to have aggressive, attacking bad games.    Right now, neither Jake nor Trent are bringing aggressiveness on either end.   Mayo's 25 MPG have to come from somewhere.   IMO, he is soon starting and that Trent will take a bigger hit to his minutes than Jake will.   I've been wrong before, but this is based on what I have seen from Trent/Jake on the floor.  
Again, IMO, this team's best chance at success is with a 3 guard starting lineup of Cadougan, Blue, and Mayo.   That isn't overly optimistic crazy predictions.    That is my opinion based on observation.  

[GGGG]

I do appreciate what Trent can and cannot do.   We have been watching the same games and I endeavor to do so without bias about what I am seeing from the MU players on both ends of the court.   For example, I have been in agreement with you about Vander's game being much more than points.  And watching the games objectively, other than rebounding, Jake brings everything to the table that Trent does.   Mayo brings speed and aggressiveness that both seem to be lacking.   Of course Mayo is going to have bad games, but he is going to have aggressive, attacking bad games.    Right now, neither Jake nor Trent are bringing aggressiveness on either end.   Mayo's 25 MPG have to come from somewhere. 

Excluding rebounding from things that Jake can do as well as Trent is a pretty big exclusion.  Honestly, unless Jake hits outside shots, there really is no reason to have him on the floor at all.

That being said, Todd's 24 minutes came almost completely 50/50 from what Jake and Trent had gotten beforehand - 12 minutes apiece.  We will see if that continues moving forward.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Mayo may have some off shooting nights, but personally I won't be disappointed because the body of his work at the season's end will prove he's the best perimeter player MU has on the team.  He simply has more game than any of the other perimeter players for MU.

Does MU even beat NCC without Mayo??  Also believe MU probably beats UWGB with Mayo.  All this said, I'd have no problem with MU running a lineup out there of Cadougan, Blue and Mayo night in, night out and bringing Lockett off the bench.  Yet I see Buzz rolling Mayo and possibly Jake Thomas out together with 2nd unit/Gardner as they need to be on the floor when Gardner is in the game, as it will ease some of the zone/doubles/triples Davante faces.

I'll take a piece of this action:

How many points per game will Mayo Avg in conf. play?

Over/under at 14.

I'll take the under.

[NersEllenson]

I'll take a piece of this action:

How many points per game will Mayo Avg in conf. play?

Over/under at 14.

I'll take the under.

I didn't make a claim as to Mayo's PPG average in conference play - simply said he'd be teams 2nd leading scorer in conference play.  I'd be happy to make that wager with you...so we can add the cumulative total of points scored in conference play and Todd will rank 2nd (or 1st) on the team.  We can wager a 1 month hiatus from Scoop.  Deal?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I didn't make a claim as to Mayo's PPG average in conference play - simply said he'd be teams 2nd leading scorer in conference play.  I'd be happy to make that wager with you...so we can add the cumulative total of points scored in conference play and Todd will rank 2nd (or 1st) on the team.  We can wager a 1 month hiatus from Scoop.  Deal?

Well, you said Todd would be the best perimeter player on the team in conference play.

I don't think that's true, so let's just figure out how we can evaluate that.

Points is ok (obv. that's where I started), but maybe we should use Dr. Blackheart's stats value add stats? That accounts for defense and rebounds, correct?

For the record, I really like Todd as a player, but I just think you are way too high on him.

I'm in for some sort of "month off" wager... lets just work on the criteria.

[Blackhat]

Todd's gonna be 22 in a few months, he's definitely got the most mature game on our roster.

2 yrs of eligibility left?? assuming he hits the books. 

 I'd like to see him take the next step with his penetration game. 

[tower912]

Excluding rebounding from things that Jake can do as well as Trent is a pretty big exclusion.  Honestly, unless Jake hits outside shots, there really is no reason to have him on the floor at all.

That being said, Todd's 24 minutes came almost completely 50/50 from what Jake and Trent had gotten beforehand - 12 minutes apiece.  We will see if that continues moving forward.

If Jake can't hit an outside shot, he shouldn't play.   The same can be appllied to Trent.   A scorer who doesn't score, a defender who isn't defending well, a leader who isn't leading, should sacrifice his minutes to Mayo at this point. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If Jake can't hit an outside shot, he shouldn't play.   The same can be appllied to Trent.   A scorer who doesn't score, a defender who isn't defending well, a leader who isn't leading, should sacrifice his minutes to Mayo at this point. 

Until Todd's misses some shots... then we can all talk about benching him, right?

[GGGG]

If Jake can't hit an outside shot, he shouldn't play.   The same can be appllied to Trent.   A scorer who doesn't score, a defender who isn't defending well, a leader who isn't leading, should sacrifice his minutes to Mayo at this point.  

Uh...no.  Lockett is actually shooting OK.  I mean, his spot three point shooting is enough to be a threat.

Trent can rebound.  And he defends fine.  Certainly better than Jake does.

And how do you know he isn't "leading?"

[Blackhat]

Mayo was our third leading 3 pt% shooter in his first year behind Jae and DJO (Jamil was tied with Jae and above Mayo  but only attempted 29 threes).   I see no reason why he can't have an upward trajectory as his career progresses.

[GGGG]

Mayo was our third leading 3 pt% shooter in his first year behind Jae and DJO.   I see no reason why he can't have an upward trajectory as his career progresses.

Fourth...behind Jamil too.

[Blackhat]

Yeah, maybe unfair, but I overlooked him cause Jamil had such a small sample size and  he's not asked to take a lot of 3's.

[tower912]

From watching every minute of every game with the exception of the GB game, I would start Mayo over Lockett.   I would play Thomas over Lockett.    Based only on watching all of the games.  I am not so closed minded that I discount everything he does and am not willing to change my opinion if he picks it up.    It has become clear we disagree on this and are going to keep harping the same points over and over without changing the other's opinion, which is also the muscoop way.   So, happy new year to you, sultan.