If the Catholic 7 breaks from the Big East, who should be invited to join?

[🏀]

Seconded on the Priceline is crazy.  You should be booking on Orbitz, the unofficial official travel agency of MUScoop!

Personally, I am more of a Kayak guy.

[nyg]

Butler should absolutely be included. They have shown a strong commitment to their program, increase name recognition, are associated with a top-30 media market in Indianapolis, and have shown a willingness to increase their level of competition by stepping up to the A-10.

Though I'm curious why Mike Brey would be the authority on this. Are we really confiding in Notre Dame over this? If so, is it because they might still be in play?

Thats why I posted it.  Maybe Brey has an insider information, had a slip of the tongue and said something he should not have. 

[lalumiere]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8742607/seven-catholic-schools-leaning-leaving-big-east-sources-say

In this updated article from Katz, it mentions a quote from Mike Brey who stated the C7 have reached out to:

Xavier
St. Louis
Dayton
Creighton
Gonzaga
St. Mary's

That would add up to 13 teams. 

I'm surprised that if St. Mary's has been reached out to that BYU hasn't been reached out to yet.  BYU has a more nationally recognized brand, better facilities, better tradition, and better resources than St. Mary's.

BYU averaged 18,714 people per game during the 2011-2012 men's basketball season.  While St. Mary's averaged just 3,178 people per game during the 2011-2012 men's basketball season.


http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2012/Attendance.pdf

[🏀]

I'm surprised that if St. Mary's has been reached out to that BYU hasn't been reached out to yet.  BYU has a more nationally recognized brand, better facilities, better tradition, and better resources than St. Mary's.

BYU averaged 18,714 people per game during the 2011-2012 men's basketball season.  While St. Mary's averaged just 3,178 people per game during the 2011-2012 men's basketball season.


http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2012/Attendance.pdf

BYU has their own network.

[Dish]

There's 0% chance of BYU joining this conference. Their hope is the Pac12 goes to 16 and they somehow get an invite.

[Pakuni]

I'm surprised that if St. Mary's has been reached out to that BYU hasn't been reached out to yet.  BYU has a more nationally recognized brand, better facilities, better tradition, and better resources than St. Mary's.

BYU averaged 18,714 people per game during the 2011-2012 men's basketball season.  While St. Mary's averaged just 3,178 people per game during the 2011-2012 men's basketball season.


http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2012/Attendance.pdf

All the schools on Brey's list are:
- Catholic
- urban(ish)
- non-FBS programs

BYU is none of the above.

[TJ]

Without a doubt, the goal of the new Big East conference should be to create the best basketball conference in the nation.  Certainly the conference should consist of nationally recognized basketball programs.  As a result, the conference should not be narrowly based on religious affiliation but should be based on the value that each prospective member will make towards the conference's goal of becoming the best basketball conference.

There are prospective members that have nationally recognized basketball programs who also have football programs.  For example, Memphis, UMass, and Temple all have strong nationally recognized basketball programs who also have football programs.  The new Big East could certainly add a few members like Memphis or UMass as full members, but they would have to house its football programs elsewhere.  Most likely, members who would have football would have to either compete as an independent in football or would have to join another conference as an associate member for football only.  In order to make sure basketball will remain prominent with in the conference, and that the new Big East will never sponsor football as a sport, there should be a bylaw established that no more than 25% of membership in the new Big East can have NCAA Division 1 FBS program.

Also, geography is an important part in constructing the new Big East conference but it's not as important as attracting the best basketball programs as possible.  Although, Gonzaga is geographically far from the current footprint of the Big East, Gonzaga has a nationally recognized, successful basketball program.  As a result, Gonzaga should be considered as well as another very strong national brand in basketball, BYU.  If Gonzaga would be added BYU could be added as well to provide a travel partner with Gonzaga while achieving the goal of becoming the best basketball conference in the nation.

Other prospective members that should be considered are the top members of the Atlantic 10 conference who have excellent basketball programs.  For example, Xavier, Butler, Saint Louis, and Dayton could certainly be considered.  Creighton, from the Missouri Valley Conference who also has a nationally prominent program could be a very attractive option as well.

Impossible from the first sentence.  The ACC is going to be the best basketball conference in the nation.  We're going to try to compete with Big10 & SEC for #2, and even that's a long shot.  UMass, BYU, Dayton, SLU, Creighton... These schools would be good additions, but they will not make the new Big East the best basketball conference or even #2

[Ari Gold]

Dude, chilLAX bro!

As long as we keep a link to the east in the "New Big East" we'll have a shot at recruiting some dudes with LaXBro names http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/inside-lacrosse-announces-its-2013-all-name-team.

[lalumiere]

Impossible from the first sentence.  The ACC is going to be the best basketball conference in the nation.  We're going to try to compete with Big10 & SEC for #2, and even that's a long shot.  UMass, BYU, Dayton, SLU, Creighton... These schools would be good additions, but they will not make the new Big East the best basketball conference or even #2

Conference re-alignment is in a lot of flux.  Who knows what members will still leave the ACC. 

Anyway, that doesn't change the objective of the new Big East to become the best possible basketball conference it can be. If you want to argue about semantics that's your prerogative.

[Lennys Tap]

Do you think that conferences over-recruit just like schools do?  I wonder how heated one of those schools will get when they realize that they got recruited over

If the C7 doesn't "recruit over" the St Marys for the Butlers (just one example) my love for what's going on will be more than a little tempered. It's a diverse world - I want the strongest basketball conference, not 14 schools we can have home-and-home Kairos retreats with every year.

[mu03eng]

It would be more like every other year. And, yeah, it is closer.
And I'm still not sure why a few extra hours on an airplane ONCE a year is seen as some sort of dealbreaker around here. I mean, you'd rather be in a conference with Dayton than Gonzaga because of a few extra hours on an airplane once every 12 months?

Except it's not just once a year.  It's once a year for men's and women's soccer, volleyball, men's and women's basketball, Track, Cross country, golf, etc.  Unless you are going to schedule things to basically play MU versus Gonzaga in all relevant sports on one weekend, that gets pricey.  I don't think it's time as much as cost.

[lalumiere]

If the C7 doesn't "recruit over" the St Marys for the Butlers (just one example) my love for what's going on will be more than a little tempered. It's a diverse world - I want the strongest basketball conference, not 14 schools we can have home-and-home Kairos retreats with every year.

Exactly, in order to compete in major college basketball the new Big East has to be comprised of the best nationally relevant programs it can attract.  To select programs that are only Catholic colleges and universities, the conference would be excluding excellent private institutions which have other denominations and public institutions which would be narrow-minded and small.

[Aughnanure]

If the C7 doesn't "recruit over" the St Marys for the Butlers (just one example) my love for what's going on will be more than a little tempered. It's a diverse world - I want the strongest basketball conference, not 14 schools we can have home-and-home Kairos retreats with every year.

Ha!...Kairos

[lalumiere]

All the schools on Brey's list are:
- Catholic
- urban(ish)
- non-FBS programs

BYU is none of the above.

The notion to exclude BYU because it's not catholic is just absurd. 

The point that BYU does have it's own network is a valid point, and is the number one reason why BYU is not a future Big East football member.

[Mufflers]

I smell a made-for-tv New Big East versus WCC East Coast/West Coast Battle ala Biggie and Tupac.

[Benny B]

Brey also said the discussion among the Catholic schools was to make it a national Catholic conference with Xavier, Saint Louis, Dayton, Creighton, Gonzaga and possibly Saint Mary's as well.

Why the "possibly" on St. Mary's, Mike?  You seem pretty definitive on the first five... why single out SMC?


Going to jump to conclusions here, but I'm going with:  Brey essentially just admitted that ND to the CYO Conference is possible.

[MDMU04]

Except it's not just once a year.  It's once a year for men's and women's soccer, volleyball, men's and women's basketball, Track, Cross country, golf, etc.  Unless you are going to schedule things to basically play MU versus Gonzaga in all relevant sports on one weekend, that gets pricey.  I don't think it's time as much as cost.

It's also more than once per year for Gonzaga to have to travel east. A lot more.

[brewcity77]

It's also more than once per year for Gonzaga to have to travel east. A lot more.

It seems like the Gonzaga talk began with them expressing interest, specifically I believe Mark Few said something on his radio show about it this week. If Gonzaga wants to come and feels it isn't cost-prohibitive, I say let them come. In terms of name recognition, they are would undoubtedly be one of the three biggest-name schools in this conference along with us and Georgetown.

[Pakuni]

Except it's not just once a year.  It's once a year for men's and women's soccer, volleyball, men's and women's basketball, Track, Cross country, golf, etc.  Unless you are going to schedule things to basically play MU versus Gonzaga in all relevant sports on one weekend, that gets pricey.  I don't think it's time as much as cost.

I think you overestimate the cost.
Let's, just for giggles, say each team has a travel entourage of 20. For some it will be more (basketball, soccer), some less (tennis, golf), but let's average it out at 20.
Just checking fares online, the difference between a MKE-Spokane round-trip fare and a MKE-Dayton round-trip fare is $240 per ticket. Multiply that by 20 tickets and 10 teams (no lacrosse), we're talking $48,000 more a year.
That's your entire difference.
MU's total athletic budget was $26.5 million last year, meaning the added travel cost we're talking here would less than .2 percent of the total budget.
I think it's doable. And I think MU possibly even makes up that $48,000 a year by selling an annual home game with Gonzaga instead of Dayton.

* I realize that this is far from an ideal comparison. I can't factor in things like group discounts, benefits of booking way early, time of year, etc., though I suppose those benefits would be relatively equal regardless of destination. I'm just trying to lay out a thumbnail sketch of how the travel costs, relative to MU's athletic budget, are not remotely significant.

[Warriors10]

Except it's not just once a year.  It's once a year for men's and women's soccer, volleyball, men's and women's basketball, Track, Cross country, golf, etc.  Unless you are going to schedule things to basically play MU versus Gonzaga in all relevant sports on one weekend, that gets pricey.  I don't think it's time as much as cost.

Not all sports do "home and home" type things.  There isn't college duel meets in Cross Country or Golf or Tennis, just a huge conference meet.  If you offer to Gonzaga they are going to have to make it work with their budget because they are the ones traveling out east all the time.  The overall impact on us and other schools will be minimal.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Except it's not just once a year.  It's once a year for men's and women's soccer, volleyball, men's and women's basketball, Track, Cross country, golf, etc.  Unless you are going to schedule things to basically play MU versus Gonzaga in all relevant sports on one weekend, that gets pricey.  I don't think it's time as much as cost.

Not every sport plays Gonzaga every year, and not every sport will play Gonzaga on the road often.

There are definitely some logistical costs to consider, but the costs probably aren't high enough to automatically DQ Gonzaga.

[Benny B]

Crazy Conspiracy Theory Alert:

The whole concept of the C7 is picking up steam nationwide, and the media is already throwing out terms like "powerhouse" to describe a conference that hasn't even been formed.  No fewer than a half dozen teams are suspected to be candidates for an invitation, any of which add value and cachet (unlike Tulane) to a to-be-formed conference.  Four months ago, this was a bad idea.  Today, it's the best idea since the three-point line.  Is it unreasonable to think that this wasn't foreseen six months ago?

Sure, the Big East was doomed, but could we have got to the current scenario - where the C7 is basically in control - if the Big East only lost one team a year for the next 4 years?  If a couple teams depart and a couple are added here and there, would the C7 ever be in control, or worse, might it lose what little control it had?

Just think.... would this have been possible if not for our good friends, the Domers?  Remember when Notre Dame - perhaps the most prestigious university in the Big East - announced its intent to leave?  What was the reaction from any of the C7 schools?  Where was the outrage?  Where was the, "dang it Notre Dame, you screwed us royally... again?"  Frankly, the response was pretty congenial.  Good luck, best wishes, do what's best, and the like.  Maybe that was the Catholic heritage of the C7 taking form, remembering that while we may hate our brother, he's still our brother.

Maybe, just maybe, Notre Dame has been in on this scheme all along.  Perhaps they have no intention of joining the ACC.  How do you blow up the Big East without blowing it up and make it look like an accident.  Easy --- get the least likely member of the C8 to set the first charge.  And when once the building has deteriorated to the point of being condemned, nobody will blame the other seven when they have no other choice but to simply implode the thing.  Beyond that, they'll be honored and applauded for doing so.

"You know, Notre Dame, just when I think you couldn't sink any lower, you go out and do something like this.... and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF."

[MDMU04]

It seems like the Gonzaga talk began with them expressing interest, specifically I believe Mark Few said something on his radio show about it this week. If Gonzaga wants to come and feels it isn't cost-prohibitive, I say let them come. In terms of name recognition, they are would undoubtedly be one of the three biggest-name schools in this conference along with us and Georgetown.

I totally agree and would welcome them with open arms. I have to believe that Few was planting the seed for some sort of travel cost sharing arrangement as a part of the new league policies. I would also have no problem with that. I think that Gonzaga would be one of the conference anchors, and it would also give them the opportunity to play a lot more of their games in front of the eastern seaboard press and eliminate the perception of east coast bias against their program.

[Benny B]

Back to reality....

1) Xavier is a no-brainer.  (Holy crap... could this be the first time Scoop has been unanimous about anything?)

2) If you're going with the CYO plan, Gonzaga is a must-add.  If you're going with the urban basketball plan... Butler is a must-add.

3) I'd take Creighton, VCU, St. Louis and Dayton in that order.

4) I'd take SMC only under the CYO plan and then only if ND is the 14th team.

5) If CYO, I would give future consideration (i.e. not initially, but if all goes well after 2-3 years) to Santa Clara, San Fran, LMU, Holy Cross, Joe's, Bonnies, Fordham, Portland and Seattle only on the condition that they make substantial commitments to their respective programs, monetary and otherwise.

[LloydMooresLegs]

Crazy Conspiracy Theory Alert:

The whole concept of the C7 is picking up steam nationwide, and the media is already throwing out terms like "powerhouse" to describe a conference that hasn't even been formed.  No fewer than a half dozen teams are suspected to be candidates for an invitation, any of which add value and cachet (unlike Tulane) to a to-be-formed conference.  Four months ago, this was a bad idea.  Today, it's the best idea since the three-point line.  Is it unreasonable to think that this wasn't foreseen six months ago?

Sure, the Big East was doomed, but could we have got to the current scenario - where the C7 is basically in control - if the Big East only lost one team a year for the next 4 years?  If a couple teams depart and a couple are added here and there, would the C7 ever be in control, or worse, might it lose what little control it had?

Just think.... would this have been possible if not for our good friends, the Domers?  Remember when Notre Dame - perhaps the most prestigious university in the Big East - announced its intent to leave?  What was the reaction from any of the C7 schools?  Where was the outrage?  Where was the, "dang it Notre Dame, you screwed us royally... again?"  Frankly, the response was pretty congenial.  Good luck, best wishes, do what's best, and the like.  Maybe that was the Catholic heritage of the C7 taking form, remembering that while we may hate our brother, he's still our brother.

Maybe, just maybe, Notre Dame has been in on this scheme all along.  Perhaps they have no intention of joining the ACC.  How do you blow up the Big East without blowing it up and make it look like an accident.  Easy --- get the least likely member of the C8 to set the first charge.  And when once the building has deteriorated to the point of being condemned, nobody will blame the other seven when they have no other choice but to simply implode the thing.  Beyond that, they'll be honored and applauded for doing so.

"You know, Notre Dame, just when I think you couldn't sink any lower, you go out and do something like this.... and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF."

Would have used teal on that one, B.  Imagine the lawsuit (fraud, RICO, punitive damages) and the damage to reputation for all involved when that leaked.  But, I like the idea of the happy accident.