If the Catholic 7 breaks from the Big East, who should be invited to join?

[🏀]

Gonzaga's brand extends well beyond Spokane (see yesterday's post about Gonzaga's merchandise sales, which are higher than all but two C7 programs, including Marquette, and all A-10 programs).
Dayton's brand does not extend beyond Dayton.

If travel times/costs for the other sports mattered at all, Marquette would have never left the MCC. The extra cost of a flight to Spokane vs a flight to Dayton is not that significant, not when you consider the other benefits of having the Zags.

Alright, you talked me into it. Changed my vote.

[TJ]

Wait, is ND possibly interested?  Why would they leave the acc for this. If they are leaving the acc they would go to the big 10

If they wanted to join the Big 10 they could have done that at any point in the last 20 years.  Doesn't seem to be happening.

[Pakuni]

Guys, why does Gonzaga have to be an all-sports member? Let them join for basketball only and keep their other sports in the WCC or wherever. As long as we have 10-12 core schools that aren't going anywhere (C7 + Xavier, Butler, VCU for example) we can get by with allowing them in strictly for what they bring on the hardwood.

That would be a great scenario, but obviously the Zags and WCC would have to want to play along. I could see how it would be beneficial for Gonzaga, but would the WCC still want them around for the other sports if they bail on hoops? No idea.

[muwarrior69]

Assuming the the 5 football conferences go to 16 each, the new basketball centric conference should be 16 as well. I would add VCU and Dayton in the east and Portland and St. Marys in the west.

[hairy worthen]

If they wanted to join the Big 10 they could have done that at any point in the last 20 years.  Doesn't seem to be happening.

I think it is well known that the Big Ten would like to have ND for all sports.  IF ND were to leave the ACC, why would they choose a startup basketball conference instead of the money rich Big Ten.

[Warriors10]

I think it is well known that the Big Ten would like to have ND for all sports.  IF ND were to leave the ACC, why would they choose a startup basketball conference instead of the money rich Big Ten.

B1G won't let them be a partial member, so park your teams in the new BE.  Let ND be your only partial member, none of this UConn, Cincy stuff.  They will leave eventually and that is the last thing you want/need.

[reinko]

No love for UMass?  Pretty strong following in the Northeast, large research university...

/lives in Boston
//greedy

[Pakuni]

Zags blog says:

"Hearing Xavier, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, Gonzaga and St. Mary's all among targets to join the former Big East Catholic schools."

St. Mary's makes sense in that it gives Gonzaga a West Coast partner, but I'd still prefer Creighton.
Maybe a 14-team league?

[hairy worthen]

B1G won't let them be a partial member, so park your teams in the new BE.  Let ND be your only partial member, none of this UConn, Cincy stuff.  They will leave eventually and that is the last thing you want/need.

Agreed if ND would want to do it but that is a big if. Maybe down the road if the acc implodes they may have interest, but they may look at joining big 10 in all sports then. The ACC as it sits right now is a MUCH better basketball conference than any combination of teams that is formed along with the C7. I would argue that the remaining teams of the Big East has better basketball teams at the top than the new conference.

[TJ]

I think it is well known that the Big Ten would like to have ND for all sports.  IF ND were to leave the ACC, why would they choose a startup basketball conference instead of the money rich Big Ten.

Then the choice is to stay ACC.  ND has made it pretty clear that they will not be joining the Big 10 in all sports.  Of course anything could happen, but they have gone out of their way, time and time again, to keep their football program out of the Big 10.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Picked Butler, Xavier, St. Louis, Gonzaga and Creighton.
Actually like VCU over St. Louis, but the latter provides a bit more of a geographical balance and puts the conference in another large market.

From there, I'd set two divisions, with home-and-home games against division rivals and one game against each member of the other division, for 16 conference games in all. Or could create a rotating system with home-and-homes with other division opponents once every three years for an 18-game schedule.

East
Georgetown
Villanova
St. John's
Providence
Seton Hall
Xavier

West
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
St. Louis
Creighton
Gonzaga

Yeah, Big East East and Big East West sound silly (and could be improved upon), but at least it's not Legends and Leaders.

I could roll with this, but somehow, all of the schools have to agree to play an aggressive non-conf. schedule. I think that is a big part of staying relevant. Get out and play people. Get on TV. Get some RPI. They can't just beat on each other and expect that to be enough.

You don't want to be reduced to holding bracket buster Saturdays in the hopes of getting 2 teams in the tourny. This new league has to avg. 4+ bids per year to stay relevant.

[GGGG]

I believe it should be all or nothing. No more partial membership bullcrap.

Agreed.  Hybrids don't work.  This is a new conference with a unity of purpose and mission.  It is the addition of schools that brought short-term gain without long-term commitment that is the root of the Big East's problems.  Only members are full members.  (Unless we are competing in some sort of olympic sport that other conferences don't offer.)

Regarding ND, it's too bad the C7 didn't push for this earlier.  They could have gotten them.

[The Process]

I believe it should be all or nothing. No more partial membership bullcrap.

Exactly why UCONN and Cincy can go pound sand when it comes to the new conference.

[Pakuni]

I could roll with this, but somehow, all of the schools have to agree to play an aggressive non-conf. schedule. I think that is a big part of staying relevant. Get out and play people. Get on TV. Get some RPI. They can't just beat on each other and expect that to be enough.

You don't want to be reduced to holding bracket buster Saturdays in the hopes of getting 2 teams in the tourny. This new league has to avg. 4+ bids per year to stay relevant.

Completely agree, though if recent history is any indication, it shouldn't be a big issue. Even without the C7, there are two teams here (Gonzaga, Xavier) that are tournament perennials and always play good nonconference schedules. Butler is almost there, as well. Toss in Georgetown, MU and Villanova and you have six programs that consistently compete for the tournament plus a couple others (St. John's, Creighton) that should be able to compete for a bid more often than not. no reason to think the conference can't be good for 4-5 bids annually.

[chapman]

Xavier, Creighton, Butler, SLU, and Richmond.  Dayton is unnecessary with Ohio covered, which makes the VA market more worthwhile to me, and I take Richmond over VCU to stay all private.  Gonzaga's just too much of a headache with the distance.  I'd definitely stay at 12.  If ND is in, then I'd have to bump either Butler or Richmond.  

[🏀]

Completely agree, though if recent history is any indication, it shouldn't be a big issue. Even without the C7, there are two teams here (Gonzaga, Xavier) that are tournament perennials and always play good nonconference schedules. Butler is almost there, as well. Toss in Georgetown, MU and Villanova and you have six programs that consistently compete for the tournament plus a couple others (St. John's, Creighton) that should be able to compete for a bid more often than not. no reason to think the conference can't be good for 4-5 bids annually.

4-5 bids would be near automatic. Assuming all these schools play tough OOC schedules you could stretch that to 6-7 on great years.

[GGGG]

Recent success also shouldn't be a pre-requisite.  Schools with a long-term commitment to basketball excellence!!  Xavier and Butler for sure.  SLU has a new arena and is starting to shell out more $$$.  Creighton is another I would be excited about.  

[MU82]

Notre Dame is No. 1, of course. They are the ONLY exception to the all-sports rule. I see no reason to take other football schools that would spend every day trying to get in other leagues. It just makes no sense, given what we've been through. (Though I guess I could be convinced about UConn and Cincy if they would sign iron-clad documents promising $100 million exit fees!)

Xavier's an absolute no-brainer. Butler probably is, too.

I want Gonzaga. If it means adding St. Mary's, I probably can live happily ever after with them, although I don't know all that much about their history, financial commitment, etc.

Creighton's up there, too. Solid, time-tested program and good all-around sports program.

Then I'm fine with Richmond, St. Louis and/or Dayton, depending upon how big we get, the ND situation, St. Mary's, etc.

[brewcity77]

Recent success also shouldn't be a pre-requisite.  Schools with a long-term commitment to basketball excellence!!  Xavier and Butler for sure.  SLU has a new arena and is starting to shell out more $$$.  Creighton is another I would be excited about.  

I'd say yes and no to this. Definitely want schools with commitment to the sport, but we don't want to go after schools that are in the tank simply because they've had past success.

I think any of Xavier, Butler, VCU (strong recent commitment), SLU, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Creighton, Dayton, and Richmond would fit that bill. The one that worries me the most is SLU as they were flagging before Majerus and could do so again, but that's a hard television market to pass up and I like the idea of more teams that are west of Milwaukee.

[Pakuni]

I think any of Xavier, Butler, VCU (strong recent commitment), SLU, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Creighton, Dayton, and Richmond would fit that bill. The one that worries me the most is SLU as they were flagging before Majerus and could do so again, but that's a hard television market to pass up and I like the idea of more teams that are west of Milwaukee.

Tend to agree on St. Louis. They've got a big coaching decision to make that could make or break them for the foreseeable future. That said, the other things they bring to the conference (namely location and market) are tough to pass up.
Worst case, MU gets a division opponent it can count on for two wins a year.

[jficke13]

I say you take a run at the successful programs 1st, the big media markets 2nd, and the potential to be good at some point in the future 3rd.

[slack00]

Notre Dame is No. 1, of course. They are the ONLY exception to the all-sports rule. I see no reason to take other football schools that would spend every day trying to get in other leagues. It just makes no sense, given what we've been through. (Though I guess I could be convinced about UConn and Cincy if they would sign iron-clad documents promising $100 million exit fees!)

Xavier's an absolute no-brainer. Butler probably is, too.

I want Gonzaga. If it means adding St. Mary's, I probably can live happily ever after with them, although I don't know all that much about their history, financial commitment, etc. Creighton's up there, too. Solid, time-tested program and good all-around sports program.

Then I'm fine with Richmond, St. Louis and/or Dayton, depending upon how big we get, the ND situation, St. Mary's, etc.

After thinking about this a little, adding Gonzaga if you have a West Coast "travel partner" isn't the worst thing.  Before Butler left, the Horizon League did this to perfection in all sports (Green Bay-Milwaukee, UIC-Loyola, Valparaiso-Butler, YoungstownSt-Cleveland St, WrightSt-Detroit), albeit on a much smaller scale.

You've convinced me too.

[Aughnanure]

What about Wichita St? If Gonzaga is on this, Wichita St should be too.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Completely agree, though if recent history is any indication, it shouldn't be a big issue. Even without the C7, there are two teams here (Gonzaga, Xavier) that are tournament perennials and always play good nonconference schedules. Butler is almost there, as well. Toss in Georgetown, MU and Villanova and you have six programs that consistently compete for the tournament plus a couple others (St. John's, Creighton) that should be able to compete for a bid more often than not. no reason to think the conference can't be good for 4-5 bids annually.

I hope you are right, but I just don't want AD's to think:

We have 4-5 tournament teams in our conf., that will help our RPI.

The truth is that conf. play is really a zero sum game, so I'd like to see school build their resume before conf. play.

To put it another way: The Zags have a tough non-conf. out of necessity. I hope they don't change that because now they will have 4-5 conference losses.

[🏀]

Tend to agree on St. Louis. They've got a big coaching decision to make that could make or break them for the foreseeable future. That said, the other things they bring to the conference (namely location and market) are tough to pass up.

The Chaifetz Arena isn't old, and they dropped serious coin on that thing. I think they are taking their hoops seriously, and will if they get an invite.