"Without Kevin O'Neill Marquette could have become Loyola of Chicago"

[The Lens]

If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.

If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.

[GGGG]

If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.

If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.

Yeah, this pretty much nails it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Kevin is a great defensive coach.  Not so good offensively, but that is how he recruited.  Kevin reversed the slide which was a heavy task but he couldn't and didn't want to build the program like TC did.  TC did not like recruiting and is just a good game tactician.  He likes the challenges of program building more than anything. Each had huge contributions.  Buzz is the combo of both which is rarer.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The KO era was a little before my time. Could you give me a little history lesson and elaborate on the "trashing us upon departure" remark?

Thanks

Some of the comments were internal so I got to hear them within the confines of the office, that's ok and happens all the time whether it is an athletics department, fortune 100 company, mom and pop shop, etc.  Unfortunately some of that then spilled out beyond the walls in venues that the press wasn't there, but plenty of alumni. Not good, in my opinion.

Then there were the comments and actions that actually did make the press.  The things like his contract you could wipe your nose with.  You just don't say that publicly and show up your bosses and employer like that (for the record, his contract wasn't that great but he was also a first time head coach and MU gave him that chance, keep that stuff out of the public).  The stuff with Tennessee and wearing a UT sweatshirt on a Marquette bus while still employed by MU...again, just not needed.  There are others.  Glad he was here, thankful for his accomplishments, his personality would not have allowed him to stay long which has been proven over and over again at every stop he's been at.

The Lens has it right, it's just KO being KO.  His act is great for some, but he's burned his welcome out just about everywhere.  He escaped getting the axe at USC a few years ago but Haden was damn pissed at this actions in a bar during the Pac 10 tournament at the time.  He remains one of the funniest guys I have ever heard at a practice and also one of the most caustic.  There's a line with him that blurs where you don't know if he's kidding or just being an a-hole.  The entire Arizona debacle is still something that amazes me how that one was blown.

As a coach, still one of the best defensive coaches I've ever seen.  He is excellent at taking the level of his talent and making them competitive with teams with better talent. 

[Goose]

Chico's

Agreed completely on how he messed up AZ gig. That was beyond stupid.

Dr. Blackheart
I am not sure I agree on KO being defensive coach. He backed everything up to make teams take bad shots, but I like Buzz's D better. KO was recruiter and not great coach IMO.

[Groin_pull]

Could someone help me? How exactly did KO blow the Arizona gig? I'd like to hear from those who know. Thanks.

[GGGG]

How did he mess up in Arizona?  My impression was that Lute Olson's illness caused some erratic behavior, and that was his ultimate downfall.

[tower912]

I don't think it can be overstated just how bad things were at the end of the Dukiet era.   10-18 record.   Little talent.    Undercurrent about dropping D1 athletics entirely.   KO walked into a program that was on the precipice.   If he had failed, MU would be lucky to be in the Horizon league right now.   

[The Equalizer]

I think people make way too much of the "O'Neill saved us from becoming Loyola".  

There are three important moves that Marquette made before O'Neill stepped one foot on campus.

First, they hired an outstanding AD in Bill Cords.  
Second, they committed to playing in the brand new Bradley Center.  
Third, they fired Bob Dukiet.  

Kevin O'Neill may have done some good things, but Marquette had already separated itself from Loyola before he got here.

[4everwarriors]

If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.

If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.

Eloquent man, simply eloquent.

[NersEllenson]

I think people make way too much of the "O'Neill saved us from becoming Loyola".  

There are three important moves that Marquette made before O'Neill stepped one foot on campus.

First, they hired an outstanding AD in Bill Cords.  
Second, they committed to playing in the brand new Bradley Center.  
Third, they fired Bob Dukiet.  

Kevin O'Neill may have done some good things, but Marquette had already separated itself from Loyola before he got here.

Even for your frequent twisted logic, the above is pretty off the wall. Trying to decipher you are saying:  So, MU, by hiring an athletic director, along with firing Bob Dukiet and playing in the Bradley Center, that alone saved us from being Loyola? So Bill Cords, firing Bob Dukiet, and playing in the Bradley Center had more to do with MU not becoming Loyola - and not Kevin O'Neill??  So if Kevin O'Neill were a crappy coach and couldn't recruit Mac, Damon Key, Logtermann, Curry etc...and the next hire after Dukiet led us to more 10-18 seasons...we wouldn't have run the risk of becoming a Loyola, Detroit, Bradley?

Still mind f*cked trying to figure out your theory that virtually every poster here are making way too much out of Kevin O'Neill saving us from becoming Loyola.  Do you ever give any credit to any coach at MU other than Tom Crean??  Seriously.  Though it was a joke, starting to really wonder if you are Joanie Crean or Tom?!

[Pakuni]

I think people make way too much of the "O'Neill saved us from becoming Loyola".  

There are three important moves that Marquette made before O'Neill stepped one foot on campus.

First, they hired an outstanding AD in Bill Cords.  
Second, they committed to playing in the brand new Bradley Center.  
Third, they fired Bob Dukiet.  

Kevin O'Neill may have done some good things, but Marquette had already separated itself from Loyola before he got here.

1. That's true.

2. Helped, but far from a guarantee of success. Lots of teams move to new arenas and remain bad and/or don't improve. Oregon hasn't exactly gotten better since moving to a state-of-the-art facility. USC hasn't exactly taken off since opening the Galen Center. South Carolina opened a new arena in 2002, and has been mostly bad ever since.

3. If firing a bad coach were key to success, DePaul would be a powerhouse.

[The Equalizer]

Even for your frequent twisted logic, the above is pretty off the wall. Trying to decipher you are saying:  So, MU, by hiring an athletic director, along with firing Bob Dukiet and playing in the Bradley Center, that alone saved us from being Loyola? So Bill Cords, firing Bob Dukiet, and playing in the Bradley Center had more to do with MU not becoming Loyola - and not Kevin O'Neill??  So if Kevin O'Neill were a crappy coach and couldn't recruit Mac, Damon Key, Logtermann, Curry etc...and the next hire after Dukiet led us to more 10-18 seasons...we wouldn't have run the risk of becoming a Loyola, Detroit, Bradley?

Let me spell it out for you:

Does O'Neill come to MU without Cords here first?  No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we had decided to play in the crappy Arena?  No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we don't buy out Dukeit's contract and fire him?  No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we dedided to de-emphasize athletics or drop to D2?  No.

Does O'Neill go to Loyola in any conceivable scencario?  Bradley?  Detroit?  No. No. and No.

In other words, MU had to commit to having a successful program FIRST, then hire a coach accordingly.  

We landed O'Neill because we were committed to success first.  Loyola would NEVER have been able to land a coach like O'Neill becuase they weren't committed.  

[The Equalizer]

2. Helped, but far from a guarantee of success. Lots of teams move to new arenas and remain bad and/or don't improve. Oregon hasn't exactly gotten better since moving to a state-of-the-art facility. USC hasn't exactly taken off since opening the Galen Center. South Carolina opened a new arena in 2002, and has been mostly bad ever since.

Not a guarantee--but it would have been a lot harder to land a coach like O'Neill if MU hadn't made that decision.  The Bradley Center was a selling point--it came with a lot of added cost and risk which the school had to make before they could even think to land a hot coaching prospect.

3. If firing a bad coach were key to success, DePaul would be a powerhouse.

Not the key--but you have to be willing to make the move.

How much sooner would Wisconsin have been good had the not given Steve Yoder 10 years of futility?  Some scholls are just afraid to pull the trigger and fire a coach.   Nowdays, programs give their coaches only 2 or 3 years--back then it was more unusual.  BTW, Cords did the same when he thought things were heading south under Mike Deane.

[TallTitan34]

If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.

If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.

I completely agree, but my point is to look past Crean being a d-bag and realize he helped MU as well. It's possible without Crean we don't have the Al and aren't in the Big East.

[real chili 83]

Both of you are right.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Does this mean in 15 years, Scoop will finally appreciate everything Tom Crean did for Marquette even though he was a giant a$$hole?

Can you imagine if Scoop was around when and directly after KO left?

Thank God cell phones with cameras weren't around back then either.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Big difference.  Crean had everything that KO did not...facilities, upper management support, fan adolation, BIG $$ 10 year f*cking contract, etc.

I still love KO, I still hold a grudge against TC (because he signed a 10 yr contract and left after 2).

Fan adolation....certainly not here.   

He left for a better gig, IU.  I don't harbor any illusions of grief when a guy leaves for Duke, IU, UCLA, KU, UK, UNC and maybe 4 or 5 others.  You gots to go as they say.  Once in a lifetime opportunity.  Tennessee....3rd fiddle behind football and the women's hoops program...not so much.

[jsglow]

Fan adolation....certainly not here.   

He left for a better gig, IU.  I don't harbor any illusions of grief when a guy leaves for Duke, IU, UCLA, KU, UK, UNC and maybe 4 or 5 others.  You gots to go as they say.  Once in a lifetime opportunity.  Tennessee....3rd fiddle behind football and the women's hoops program...not so much.

True Chicos but KO has always been a vagabond.  We all knew he was leaving after the season.  Most folks are upset with HOW TC left a la the Baltimore Colts on the Mayflower moving vans.

[NersEllenson]

Let me spell it out for you:

Does O'Neill come to MU without Cords here first?  No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we had decided to play in the crappy Arena?  No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we don't buy out Dukeit's contract and fire him?  No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we dedided to de-emphasize athletics or drop to D2?  No.

Does O'Neill go to Loyola in any conceivable scencario?  Bradley?  Detroit?  No. No. and No.

In other words, MU had to commit to having a successful program FIRST, then hire a coach accordingly.  

We landed O'Neill because we were committed to success first.  Loyola would NEVER have been able to land a coach like O'Neill becuase they weren't committed.  

Ugh....who says A.D. prior to Cords wouldn't have reached out to a guy who was considered the best recruiter in college basketball?

Ugh...did you talk to Kevin and did Kevin tell you he never would have come to MU if it were still playing in the MECCA - which just 5 years earlier was a pro arena.

Ugh...2 coaches can't coach at a school at the same time...so no sh$t Sherlock...O'Neill or any other coach wouldn't be at MU if Dukiet wasn't fired.

But hey...it was all firing Dukiet, hiring Bill Cords, and us moving to the Bradley Center that got us the recruits and wins/Sweet 16 Kevin O'Neill got us...cause you know a building, and good athletic director are all it takes to win ball games in college hoops.

[Marqevans]

I completely agree, but my point is to look past Crean being a d-bag and realize he helped MU as well. It's possible without Crean we don't have the Al and aren't in the Big East.

And most importantly, we don't haveBuzz!

[Daniel]

It was all about the scheckles. KO said you could wipe your nose with his MU contract.

If I remember correctly, KO was making about $200K at MU and Tennessee paid him $400K.

[Avenue Commons]

Has anyone mentioned that after KO got to TN, he asked if he could come back to MU?

I'm pretty sure KO has gone on the record that in retrospect he regrets leaving. Despite what he said at the time.

[unforgiven]

Has anyone mentioned that after KO got to TN, he asked if he could come back to MU?

I'm pretty sure KO has gone on the record that in retrospect he regrets leaving. Despite what he said at the time.

Rocky Top take on KO

http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2009/12/17/1203664/tennessee-kevin-oneill-the-reunion

[77ncaachamps]

I thought KO didn't placate or nicely rub the alums at AZ (like Lute did), hence the axe.