[PaintTouches]Analyzing Vander Blue’s early offensive struggles

[PaintTouchesSays]

Analyzing Vander Blue’s early offensive struggles
      

Written by: Andrei Greska
            

It is no secret that junior Vander Blue has gotten off to a slow start on the offensive end this season. This is the part of the analysis where I strictly outline that this is a dive solely into his ... Continue reading →


            

http://painttouches.com/2012/11/15/analyzing-vander-blues-early-offensive-struggles/
      

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Wow, this is some great analysis. I really enjoyed it.

[Goose]

Interesting.

[Marqus Howard]

Wow, this is some great analysis. I really enjoyed it.

+1

[Bocephys]

Excellent article and analysis.

[nyg]

Nice article and analysis, only issue is you state "Overall his offense hasn't been terrible".  But yes it has.  

Hope he gets its going soon, like to see him succeed.  If he doesn't, he will scrutinized big time.  

[Groin_pull]

Not sure why we need a detailed analysis on this topic. I'll give you the condensed version: Vander Blue can't shoot. It's that simple. He has no offensive game whatsoever. He can't stick a jump shot and he can't hit a layup. He gives good effort and plays tough D, but he is a complete liability on offense. At this stage, it's not going to change. He is what he is. And with his offensive limitations, any NBA talk is laughable.

[brewcity77]

Excellent article. The reason AG argues his offense hasn't been terrible is because he isn't taking many ill-advised shots and most of them are mainly on target, just slightly missing the mark. I remember two years ago people getting worried about DJO early on because before the Milwaukee game he wasn't putting up big numbers, and he ended up leading the team in scoring. I still think Blue will settle in and get 10-12 ppg this year, which will be fine on a team where we have 4-5 guys that could score double-digits.

[PaintTouches]

The reason AG argues his offense hasn't been terrible is because he isn't taking many ill-advised shots and most of them are mainly on target, just slightly missing the mark.

You got me pegged to a T, Brew. Exactly what I was thinking. The only bad shots he has taken is a weird hook, a jumper off the dribble, and the charge (the finger roll could also be in play for this category but at least it was late in the shot clock). The rest didn't go in, but they weren't bad shots.

It's very early in the season to make any concrete judgments, but I just wanted to see why he wasn't scoring. I agree he isn't a good shooter, but I don't think he has to be good, just adequate. I will look at this again in a few games to see where he's at.

[Groin_pull]

Excellent article. The reason AG argues his offense hasn't been terrible is because he isn't taking many ill-advised shots and most of them are mainly on target, just slightly missing the mark. I remember two years ago people getting worried about DJO early on because before the Milwaukee game he wasn't putting up big numbers, and he ended up leading the team in scoring. I still think Blue will settle in and get 10-12 ppg this year, which will be fine on a team where we have 4-5 guys that could score double-digits.

You don't get points for being close. Who cares whether his shots rim out or they miss everything? Bottom line: he's shooting 20% and that's horrible. I'd feel better if he at least had some feel around the hoop, but he doesn't. Blue has the quickness to get the basket, but he can't do anything once he gets there.

[brewcity77]

Well then why worry about anything? We're 2-0, so everything must be going along perfectly

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Analyzing Vander Blue’s early offensive struggles
      

Written by: Andrei Greska
            

It is no secret that junior Vander Blue has gotten off to a slow start on the offensive end this season. This is the part of the analysis where I strictly outline that this is a dive solely into his ... Continue reading →


            

http://painttouches.com/2012/11/15/analyzing-vander-blues-early-offensive-struggles/
      

Nice work.

I actually think his stroke looks good from the waist up. His lower body looks disjointed from what his upper is trying to do. Given that he shoots a good percentage from the free throw line, I think he has the hand-eye coordination to be a serviceable shooter.

Around the rim, he doesn't have good feel. I thought some more strength and experience would help him with that. It hasn't (yet). Dwyane was uber strong as utilized his jump stop better than anybody. Jimmy had great ball control and could absorb contact. DJO could change directions/hands in the blink of an eye.

Vander doesn't have a signature ability/move in the lane. He wants to go right, jumps, and then whatever happens, happens. I hope the game slows down for a him a little bit. Still plenty of time for a breakthrough. It sounds silly, but he still probably has to learn to slow down a little and use some body control to finish instead of speed.

[NickelDimer]

I've personally given up any hope of VB ever being a shooter and/or scorer.  His FT stroke looks improved and he's shooting them with confidence, so that's improvement.  But for two, (going on three), years he hasn't been able to finish at point blank range.  Do most honestly think he's suddenly going to become a scorer?

[jsglow]

Nice work.

It sounds silly, but he still probably has to learn to slow down a little and use some body control to finish instead of speed.

Agreed.  We've had a couple of guys who needed to gather themselves just a bit around the rim in the first two games.  VB is certainly one.  I've thought JC has needed to be a bit more under control as well.

[brewcity77]

I actually think his stroke looks good from the waist up. His lower body looks disjointed from what his upper is trying to do.

On his jumpers, he still seems to push the ball more than shooting it. There's a bit of a hitch in his shot. It certainly looks better than it did a year ago, but I think him becoming an average shooter would be a great accomplishment.

I've personally given up any hope of VB ever being a shooter and/or scorer.  His FT stroke looks improved and he's shooting them with confidence, so that's improvement.  But for two, (going on three), years he hasn't been able to finish at point blank range.  Do most honestly think he's suddenly going to become a scorer?

I think it depends on your definition of scorer. I think in general he will score 10-12 ppg. Every now and then he'll lead the team in scoring. He'll never be a night-in night-out 50% shooter hitting 35% from beyond the arc while piling up 16+ ppg, but when you have as many guys that can go for double digits as we do, that's okay.

[We R Final Four]

Shooting ~20% VB is going to miss 80% of his shots.  That is a lot of misses you are asking this team to absorb. Shooting ~80% from the line, his/our best hope is to get fouled on a drive/shot. He must overcome his deficiencies in all other areas to be successful, or as some say complete.

[NickelDimer]

On his jumpers, he still seems to push the ball more than shooting it. There's a bit of a hitch in his shot. It certainly looks better than it did a year ago, but I think him becoming an average shooter would be a great accomplishment.

I think it depends on your definition of scorer. I think in general he will score 10-12 ppg. Every now and then he'll lead the team in scoring. He'll never be a night-in night-out 50% shooter hitting 35% from beyond the arc while piling up 16+ ppg, but when you have as many guys that can go for double digits as we do, that's okay.

Vander has a lot of value to this team.  My statement was not intended to devalue what he brings.  Unlike some who seem to think the measure of a player is based mostly on their ability to score, I see what he brings.  I'm simply saying I've given up on the idea that this team will ever rely on him to be a first, second or maybe even third option to score.  And while that's a little disappointing given his expectations coming out of highschool, it's not to say he isn't very valuable.

[Hards Alumni]

People can laugh all they want, but Vander has NBA talent.  A shot can be taught.  Out of this world athleticism, size, and instincts can't.

Remember, the NBA doesn't draft the best college players... they draft athletes.

If you give Vander time and a proper coach to recreate his shot, and the time it takes... he could be very good.

[Groin_pull]

People can laugh all they want, but Vander has NBA talent.  A shot can be taught.  Out of this world athleticism, size, and instincts can't.

Remember, the NBA doesn't draft the best college players... they draft athletes.

If you give Vander time and a proper coach to recreate his shot, and the time it takes... he could be very good.

Then why not just draft Usain Bolt? So VB can run and jump....yippee. At some point, you need to put the ball in the hoop....and VB is unable to do that from either long or close range. Plenty of guys have his athleticism in the NBA....but they can also hit a jumper. That's why they're in the NBA...and not in the D-League or in Europe.

Listen, I'm glad VB has a dream. But that's really all it is. There is no possible way he makes it to the NBA.

[AZWarrior]

People can laugh all they want, but Vander has NBA talent.  A shot can be taught.  Out of this world athleticism, size, and instincts can't.

Remember, the NBA doesn't draft the best college players... they draft athletes.

If you give Vander time and a proper coach to recreate his shot, and the time it takes... he could be very good.

Your logic is valid yet Blue has to see the need and have the desire.  He should have realized after his freshman year that his athleticism alone was not sufficient at this level and worked over the summer to re-engineer his jump shot. He had a second chance to do this over the last summer, and, to his credit it does look like he's done some work on it.  Early reviews were encouraging, though clearly his offense in the initial two games was deficient. 

It's still early and I'm an optimist (its more fun).   Anyway, hopefully Blue sees it this way as well, for his sake and ours.

[esotericmindguy]

People can laugh all they want, but Vander has NBA talent.  A shot can be taught.  Out of this world athleticism, size, and instincts can't.

Remember, the NBA doesn't draft the best college players... they draft athletes.

If you give Vander time and a proper coach to recreate his shot, and the time it takes... he could be very good.

You're delusional

[jsglow]

Jimmy Butler's role on the Bulls is as a defensive specialist.  But there's no question that Jimmy had superior offensive skills relative to Vander at this stage in their development.

I have great respect for Vander however.  He came in to the program as the highly touted recruit and would certainly admit that he had some growing up to do early on.  Everything I've heard about Vander as an upperclassman is that he's a hard working kid trying to be a leader and do things the right way.  What I think we're all a bit frustrated with is that we've yet to develop a #1 or #2 scorer (with the exception of DG) and that we'd like one or two of Trent, J Will, or Vander to emerge.  Perhaps Buzz is still learning how to get these guys in the position that best suits their ability.  MU notoriously doesn't particularly offensive gameplan for the early non-conference 'cupcakes'.  We see it every year.

[Goose]

jsglow

+1

[leever]

If you give Vander time and a proper coach to recreate his shot, and the time it takes... he could be very good.

So, Marquette doesn't have a "proper coach" or there hasn't been enough time to refine Vander's shot?  I'm hoping for improvement this year, but there's no sign of that in the first 2 games(given that is a very small sample).

[GGGG]

You know, some people simply can't shoot no matter how hard they work.  And my understanding is that Vander has been working very hard at it.  He may not have the touch even if his form is perfect.