Marquette fires Scott Monarch. Suspends HC Buzz Williams for one League game

[bilsu]

Article says Buzz knew no knowledge of the investigation and Monarch was not being forthright on multiple occasions.  I side with LW on the Monarch firing.  I'm not sure if Buzz knew nothing of it, why he has to be suspended a Big East game.

hat Buzz
I think Buzz had no knowledge of the violation. He would of known about the investigation. Self impossed penalties are designed to appeased the NCAA. Make them to soft  and NCAA imposes their own. I agree that Buzz is accountable for who he hires. I think the first Big East game suspension makes more sense than to suspend him for the first game against Ohio St.

[4everwarriors]

F*ckin', thought for sure, dude, your name would be on it.

[GGGG]

hat Buzz
I think Buzz had no knowledge of the violation. He would of known about the investigation. Self impossed penalties are designed to appeased the NCAA. Make them to soft  and NCAA imposes their own. I agree that Buzz is accountable for who he hires. I think the first Big East game suspension makes more sense than to suspend him for the first game against Ohio St.

If the player is who I have been told who it is, I have a hard time believing that Buzz knew nothing.  Now, I might be wrong...

[4everwarriors]

If Buzz knew nothin', Larry should can his heine since he obviously isn't payin' attention to his job.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Yeah...these f*ckers don't know anything about basketball and what it means to Marquette.

I called them the braintrust, not f*ckers.  I'm f*ckin.  I can see where the confusion comes from.   

[ZiggysFryBoy]

F*ckin', thought for sure, dude, your name would be on it.

you, me, MuMac and PRN could do some serious good work on the BOT.

Shouldn't you be the token?  Dentist that is.   

[bilsu]

Niv and Doc, I disagree, the Head Coach hires, the HC fires.  Anything else implies he is not capable of managing his charge.

We all agree the right decision was made.

The suit against Minnesota was just dismissed, Tubby Smith offered an assistants job to someone, who quit his other job and ended up not getting the assistant's job at Minnesota. He sued the University, but the judge ruled that Smith could not offer the contract for the University of Minnesota and threw out the suit, so this case is a good indication that Buzz cannot hire or fire assistant coaches. He can only recommend to the athletic director to hire or fire someone. No different than offering a recruit a scholarship. The recruit still has to be admitted by the University. Buzz has influence, but not as much power as some of you are saying.

[real chili 83]

My belief is that it was a case about "at will".  However, if you are correct, then the MU deal and how it was rolled out makes a bit more sense.  Thanks for sharing.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The suit against Minnesota was just dismissed, Tubby Smith offered an assistants job to someone, who quit his other job and ended up not getting the assistant's job at Minnesota. He sued the University, but the judge ruled that Smith could not offer the contract for the University of Minnesota and threw out the suit, so this case is a good indication that Buzz cannot hire or fire assistant coaches. He can only recommend to the athletic director to hire or fire someone. No different than offering a recruit a scholarship. The recruit still has to be admitted by the University. Buzz has influence, but not as much power as some of you are saying.

I'd think a state university would have different hiring and firing procedures than a private school, just due to the nature of government employment.

[MU82]

I think we're probably at the point where everybody -- Buzz, Larry, the BOT -- is ready for Buzz to move on. And it might be for the best for everyone involved.

It wouldn't be best for the program if Buzz moved on, and not sure why anybody would think so.

[MU82]

The most feared phrase in NCAA member athletic departments is "lack of institutional control."
Having a coach tell multiple lies regarding rules infractions - regardless of their severity - and then allowing that coach to get away with it screams "lack of institutional control." It screams "the tail wags the dog."
Unfortunately for Monarch, his dismissal was necessary on several levels.

FWIW, this could arguably lessen the chances of Buzz leaving after next year. Given what happened to Indiana after hiring Sampson and the way the NCAA came down on Penn State, coaches who've had NCAA issues may not be in such high demand. We mocked the Chicago Sun-Times in the spring when they reported Illinois wasn't interested in Buzz because of disciplinary problems, but maybe there was something to that. I'm sure Buzz would land a job if he chooses to leave MU, but clearly there's some stuff out there that would give programs a reason for pause.

Yes, and Kentucky had reason for pause before hiring Calipari, whose 2 previous schools ended up in hot water with the NCAA.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

There is exactly one thing that all alumni and other stakeholders can unite behind and it's the basketball team. It drives applications, donations, season ticket sales, etc.

You are 100% correct.

However, an academic institution has to be careful about inserting athletic success (specifically winning) as part of it's mission.

Once you go down that road, you create a culture where you are willing to sacrifice "right" for the "good of the program". I'm not saying that everything is absolutely black and white, but the MU Administration cannot drink the kool aid, and need to remain objective, even if it hurts in the short run. It just has to be that way.

Honestly, Penn State is the perfect poster child for a school who inserted winning into it's mission statement and culture, and thus decisions were made based upon if it would help/hurt the program. Once that culture takes hold, it's a hard habit to break.

Also, what is with all of the Pilarz and LW hate? We haven't even seen these dudes long enough to know much about them, yet some are ready to run them out? Maybe Monarch should know the rules, then he wouldn't be fired. That's not Pilarz and LW's fault.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

What is with people bringing up Penn State? Are you out of your minds? Giving a kid a ride home and a t-shirt is hardly akin to turning the other way when one of your assistants is boofing little boys in your locker room. Let's get some perspective!

[jsglow]

You are 100% correct.

However, an academic institution has to be careful about inserting athletic success (specifically winning) as part of it's mission.

Once you go down that road, you create a culture where you are willing to sacrifice "right" for the "good of the program". I'm not saying that everything is absolutely black and white, but the MU Administration cannot drink the kool aid, and need to remain objective, even if it hurts in the short run. It just has to be that way.

Honestly, Penn State is the perfect poster child for a school who inserted winning into it's mission statement and culture, and thus decisions were made based upon if it would help/hurt the program. Once that culture takes hold, it's a hard habit to break.

Also, what is with all of the Pilarz and LW hate? We haven't even seen these dudes long enough to know much about them, yet some are ready to run them out? Maybe Monarch should know the rules, then he wouldn't be fired. That's not Pilarz and LW's fault.

+1

C'mon guys.  Monarch made his own bed.  I refuse to believe Buzz believes the university should have looked the other way.  This is 1/1,000,000th of what has happened at other schools where sports became the 'reason we exist'.  Obviously Penn State is by far and away the most serious example. But I'm not going down that slippery slope.  Look at it this way, Scott Monarch perjured himself during an official investigation.  Freakin' case closed.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It's not about the t-shirt, it's not about Buzz, it's not about Monarch. It's about culture of the school and fans.

PRN, You implied that the MU admin doesn't care enough about winning basketball games:

Basketball is a huge part of MU, and it's very,very important. But, the upper-management at MU cannot make winning games part of MU's mission. MU is an academic institution, and decisions need to be made through that prism.

Once you start making decisions so you can win more games, it creates a culture where winning becomes a too much of a priority and it's hard to make the "right" decision if it has a negative impact on the program.

Penn State is an extreme example of this culture gone wrong for about 50 years. Obv. MU isn't going to have a big problem overnight, but I still want the President to do what is right, not what wins games.

[Blackhat]

It kind of has been a systematic dismantling of at least the basketball we came to know and enjoy the past decade. 

Fr. Wild is out Pilarz comes in.   Fires Cottingham,  things get dicey (put nicely) with Buzz and his staff.   MU had a chance to become elite which is achieved through the retention of top flight coaches.

Now Pilarz may be ensuring our cap is Xavier, with top level coaches not getting desired support from administration.


If Pilarz doesn't get Buzz's replacement right he's DiIulio part deux.    Kinda sad, considering all the work Wild put in to getting the team on top and secure in conference alignment.

[real chili 83]

I hope that we make decisions, in sync with the school's mission, that include a vision of us as NCAA champs consistently.  Academic and Athletic excellence should be very compatible.  As long both are achieved in a manner that is in alignment with our values.

From what I can tell, MU does an excellent job of making it CRYSTAL clear what the rules are for NCAA compliance.  In a different thread (too lazy to find it), another scoop member posted a link to a very well done MU created pamphlet on NCAA regs.  

I will give Monarch the benefit of the doubt....that he is well intended.  However, he crossed a line, and is paying the price.  With the amount of emphasis the school places on clarity of expectations on NCAA regs......starting to beat a dead horse.

I am hopeful that this is all a well thought out strategy, that has the ultimate goal of MU being NC's in the next two years.

We really wont know until a year from now how well this was handled.  Next August, we will either be lamenting the selection process for our new HC, or be elated with our singing of Stone, Looney, et al.

[Pakuni]

Yes, and Kentucky had reason for pause before hiring Calipari, whose 2 previous schools ended up in hot water with the NCAA.

My computer must being acting up, because it's telling me you're comparing Buzz Williams with John Calipari who, when hired by Kentucky, was a two-time national coach of the year with two Final Fours, three Elite Eights and two Sweet Sixteens.
Do I need to call the repairman?

[KenoshaWarrior]

Buzz has said many times it's not about the money and Don't screw with happy.  I believe him and that is why I'm worried.   LW would jump to a football in a second and Buzz has passed on how many jobs.  I feel like LW is padding his resume as a tough guy and MU is the fall guy.  Dump him, know when you made a bad hire,  they do it with coachs all the time.   

Your exactly right.  It is time for MU to part ways with Larry Williams.   
For those of you who dont follow SEC Sports, Nick Saban committed 29!!  Yes 29!! Violations in the past year and I dont think the AD is suspending him for any games or firing any assistant coaches. 


O IMHO this Chernoyble we are having is probably going to turn out to be a mere 3 Mile Island.    As long as Buzz keeps winning their is no way that LW can fire him, and if Buzz goes to a lesser job than LW becomes public enemy #1 and we he burns at the PR stake essentially.

[KenoshaWarrior]

What is with people bringing up Penn State? Are you out of your minds? Giving a kid a ride home and a t-shirt is hardly akin to turning the other way when one of your assistants is boofing little boys in your locker room. Let's get some perspective!

I was about to say the same thing.    This is 1,000,000,000,000,000 Times more minor than PSU

[GGGG]

The point of the PSU comparisons are that it is an extreme example of what you get when you let athletics run the show....not that the violations are comparable.  I have been saying this for awhile...the times are gone where the coach runs the show.  The coach need to operate within the limits set by the AD and the institution.

[NersEllenson]

The point of the PSU comparisons are that it is an extreme example of what you get when you let athletics run the show....not that the violations are comparable.  I have been saying this for awhile...the times are gone where the coach runs the show.  The coach need to operate within the limits set by the AD and the institution.

The issue of course is that not all institutions and AD's set the same limits.  It appears MU is headed the direction that won't make it a coach/athletics friendly place - as it was under Father Wild.

[Pakuni]

The point of the PSU comparisons are that it is an extreme example of what you get when you let athletics run the show....not that the violations are comparable.  I have been saying this for awhile...the times are gone where the coach runs the show.  The coach need to operate within the limits set by the AD and the institution.

This.
Also, I think college presidents are going to exploit the Penn State scandal (never let a good crisis go to waste, after all) to try to rein in some of the power athletic departments wield on campus. And that's probably a good thing.
One way of doing that is through the NCAA. The universal praise - outside State College, at least - the NCAA has received for hammering Penn State is only going to strengthen and embolden the organization.

Nobody is suggesting that Monarch's offense is anything remotely equivalent to what happened at Penn State or that MU would/could/should face a consequence 1/100,000 as severe. The point is, the landscape has changed dramatically, and universities need to tread much more carefully around the rules and act swiftly when rules are violated (as opposed to letting it go, because some believe lying over minor infractions should be allowed).

[GGGG]

The issue of course is that not all institutions and AD's set the same limits.  It appears MU is headed the direction that won't make it a coach/athletics friendly place - as it was under Father Wild.

Not sure that I would say it isn't "friendly" toward athletics considering how money $$ they spend - I mean they just spent a ton of money hiring Chew in May.  I think MU is willing to sacrifice some on-court success if it means getting rid of the negative headlines - and it is going to be up to Buzz to determine if he wants to operate within these constraints.

[79Warrior]

Your exactly right.  It is time for MU to part ways with Larry Williams.   
For those of you who dont follow SEC Sports, Nick Saban committed 29!!  Yes 29!! Violations in the past year and I dont think the AD is suspending him for any games or firing any assistant coaches. 


O IMHO this Chernoyble we are having is probably going to turn out to be a mere 3 Mile Island.    As long as Buzz keeps winning their is no way that LW can fire him, and if Buzz goes to a lesser job than LW becomes public enemy #1 and we he burns at the PR stake essentially.

What part of lying repeatedly when questioned did you miss. He would not have lost his job over this (assuming it is just this one incident) had he not come clean. Good grief, the violation is minor, we all know that. He lost his gig because he he was not man enough to tell the truth. Once you can't trust a dude its over.