Laws? What laws?

[Pakuni]

Apparently breaking the law is A-OK if you know the right people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070702/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_trial;_ylt=AqzYRwzqxOmTJQA5hBfqfDR34T0D

 Bush commutes Libby prison sentence

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush commuted the sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby on Monday, sparing him from a 2 1/2-year prison term that Bush said was excessive.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Apparently breaking the law is A-OK if you know the right people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070702/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_trial;_ylt=AqzYRwzqxOmTJQA5hBfqfDR34T0D

 Bush commutes Libby prison sentence

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush commuted the sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby on Monday, sparing him from a 2 1/2-year prison term that Bush said was excessive.

For someone that is so particular on details, your headline amazed me.  The guy has to pay a $250,000 fine and is on probation for two years.  He wasn't pardoned, his sentence was commuted and most certainly is being punished.  Over $2 million in legal fees and 1/4 million fine.

It may not be the punishment you would have liked, but he's still being punished....for breaking the law.  So "laws? what laws?" is a rather interesting headline.  Considering Fitzmas didn't find any laws were broken in the original purpose of the investigation of an "outted" agent and this guy was sent to prison for not having a clear memory, I'm glad today's decision was made.

Guess what...so were some of the original jury members already interviewed today.  They thought 30 months we prepostourous as well.

Now, let's talk about your outrage over PARDONS (not commuted sentences) of Marc Rich, Roger Clinton, etc and the gang.  Let's talk about Sandy Burglar's debt to society while we're at it as well.   

[tower912]

Completely expected.   Actually not a loser for Bush.   His ratings cannot get lower with center and left, so who cares if he p***** them off?   He may bring back some of the right angry at him over immigration, so I see a 4-5 point bump in the polls for W(tf) from this.   Plus, he shows he is loyal.   As if the fact that Gonzales still has a job isn't proof enough of his fierce loyalty.    But again, not at all surprising.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Completely expected.   Actually not a loser for Bush.   His ratings cannot get lower with center and left, so who cares if he p***** them off?   He may bring back some of the right angry at him over immigration, so I see a 4-5 point bump in the polls for W(tf) from this.   Plus, he shows he is loyal.   As if the fact that Gonzales still has a job isn't proof enough of his fierce loyalty.    But again, not at all surprising.

I agree entierely Tower....he has pissed off conservatives so much with immigration that this was an easy one to call.  By commuting the sentence rather than pardoning it, he also doesn't take as much heat.  He'll score a few points with some folks, but as far as I'm concerned the immigration deal was the last nail in the coffin.

And for those in need a of a quick history lesson from 2001 from a President William Jefferson Clinton:

included on this list are known rapists, drug dealers, sexual predator, child molestor, etc....yet I'm sure you will hear the feigned "outrage" by Hillary on this within the next 30 minutes if not sooner.

COMMUTATIONS:

Benjamin Berger

Ronald Henderson Blackley

Bert Wayne Bolan

Gloria Libia Camargo

Charles F. Campbell

David Ronald Chandler

Lau Ching Chin

Donald R. Clark

Loreta De-Ann Coffman

Derrick Curry

Velinda Desalus

Jacob Elbaum

Linda Sue Evans

Loretta Sharon Fish

Antoinette M. Frink

David Goldstein

Gerard A. Greenfield

Jodie E. Israel

Kimberly Johnson

Billy Thornton Langston Jr.

Belinda Lynn Lumpkin

Peter MacDonald

Kellie Ann Mann

Peter Ninemire

Hugh Ricardo Padmore

Arnold Paul Prosperi

Melvin J. Reynolds

Pedro Miguel Riveiro

Dorothy Rivers

Susan Rosenberg

Kalmen Stern

Cory Stringfellow

Carlo Anibal Vignali Jr.

Thomas Wilson Waddell III

Harvey Weinig

Kim Allen Willis


PARDONS:

Verla Jean Allen

Nicholas M. Altiere

Bernice Ruth Altschul

Joe Anderson Jr.

William Sterling Anderson

Mansour Azizkhani

Cleveland Victor Babin Jr.

Chris Harmon Bagley

Scott Lynn Bane

Thomas Cleveland Barber

Peggy Ann Bargon

David Roscoe Blampied

William Arthur Borders Jr.

Arthur David Borel

Douglas Chrles Borel

George Thomas Brabham

Almon Glenn Braswell

Leonard Browder

David Steven Brown

Delores Caroylene Burleson, aka Delores Cox Burleson

John H. Bustamante

Mary Louise Campbell

Eloida Candelaria

Dennis Sobrevinas Capili

Donna Denise Chambers

Douglas Eugene Chapman

Ronald Keith Chapman

Francisco Larois Chavez

Henry G. Cisneros

Roger Clinton

Stuart Harris Cohn

David Marc Cooper

Ernest Harley Cox Jr.

John F. Cross Jr.

Reickey Lee Cunningham

Richard Anthony De Labio

John Deutch

Richard Douglas

Edward Reynolds Downe

Marvin Dean Dudley

Larry Lee Duncan

Robert Clinton Fain

Marcos Arcenio Fernandez

Alvarez Ferrouillet

William Dennis Fugazy

Lloyd Reid George

Louis Goldstein

Rubye Lee Gordon

Pincus Green

Robert Ivey Hamner

Samuel Price Handley

Woodie Randolph Handley

Jay Houston Harmon

John Hummingson

David S. Herdlinger

Debi Rae Huckleberry

Donald Ray James

Stanley Pruet Jobe

Ruben H. Johnson

Linda Jones

James Howard Lake

June Louise Lewis

Salim Bonnor Lewis

John Leighton Lodwick

Hildebrando Lopez

Jose Julio Luaces

James Timothy Maness

James Lowell Manning

John Robert Martin

Frank Ayala Martinez

Silvia Leticia Beltran Martinez

John Francis McCormick

Susan H. McDougal

Howard Lawrence Mechanic

Brook K. Mitchell Sr.

Samuel Loring Morison

Charles Wilfred Morgan III

Richard Anthony Nazzaro

Charlene Ann Nosenko

Vernon Raymond Obermeier

Miguelina Ogalde

David C. Owen

Robert W. Palmer

Kelli Anne Perhosky

Richard H. Pezzopane

Orville Rex Phillips

Vinson Stewart Poling Jr.

Norman Lyle Prouse

Willie H.H. Pruitt Jr.

Danny Martin Pursley Sr.

Charles D. Ravenel

William Clyde Ray

Alfredo Luna Regalado

Ildefonso Reynes Ricafort

Marc Rich

Howard Winfield Riddle

Richard Wilson Riley Jr.

Samuel Lee Robbins

Joel Gonzales Rodriguez

Michael James Rogers

Anna Louise Ross

Gerald Glen Rust

Jerri Ann Rust

Bettye June Rutherford

Gregory Lee Sands

Adolph Schwimmer

Albert A. Seretti Jr.

Patricia Campbell Hearst Shaw

Dennis Joseph Smith

Gerald Owen Smith

Stephen A. Smith

Jimmie Lee Speake

Charles Bernard Stewart

Marlena Francisca Stewart-Rollins

John Fife Symington III

Richard Lee Tannehill

Nicholas C. Tenaglia

Gary Allen Thomas

Larry Weldon Todd

Olga C. Trevino

Ignatious Vamvouklis

Patricia A. Van De Weerd

Christopher V. Wade

Bill Wayne Warmath

Jack Kenneth Watson

Donna Lynn Webb

Donald William Wells

Robert H. Wendt

Jack L. Williams

Kavin Arthur Williams

Robert Michael Williams

Jimmie Lee Wilson

Thelma Louise Wingate

Mitchell Couey Wood

Warren Stannard Wood

Dewey Worthey

Rick Allen Yale

Joseph A. Yasak

William Stanley Yingling

Phillip David Young

[Pakuni]

Apparently breaking the law is A-OK if you know the right people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070702/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_trial;_ylt=AqzYRwzqxOmTJQA5hBfqfDR34T0D

 Bush commutes Libby prison sentence

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush commuted the sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby on Monday, sparing him from a 2 1/2-year prison term that Bush said was excessive.

For someone that is so particular on details, your headline amazed me.  The guy has to pay a $250,000 fine and is on probation for two years.  He wasn't pardoned, his sentence was commuted and most certainly is being punished.  Over $2 million in legal fees and 1/4 million fine.

It may not be the punishment you would have liked, but he's still being punished....for breaking the law.  So "laws? what laws?" is a rather interesting headline.  Considering Fitzmas didn't find any laws were broken in the original purpose of the investigation of an "outted" agent and this guy was sent to prison for not having a clear memory, I'm glad today's decision was made.

Guess what...so were some of the original jury members already interviewed today.  They thought 30 months we prepostourous as well.

Now, let's talk about your outrage over PARDONS (not commuted sentences) of Marc Rich, Roger Clinton, etc and the gang.  Let's talk about Sandy Burglar's debt to society while we're at it as well.   

Please point out where I said anyone is being pardoned. In fact, please point out anywhere in my post where the word "pardon" appears. In fact, i'm pretty sure the word P-A-R-D-O-N cannot be compiled with the words I did type.
If you're going to correct me, you might as well  ... you know ... be correct about it.

As for the fine and probation ... wow. The probation is meaningless, unless he intends to violate more federal laws in the next couple years and the fines will almost assuredly be covered by the Scooter Libby Defense Fund.
He is not being punished and it's a joke for you to believe he has been. Funny, you didn't feel the same way when Sandy Berger got off with a fine and probation.

And since I'm sure you're about to post a list of Clinton pardons, I'm sure that means you're OK with each and every one of them. Right?

[Pakuni]

COMMUTATIONS:

Benjamin Berger

Ronald Henderson Blackley

Bert Wayne Bolan

See ... you're getting too predictable.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is actually some brilliance in commuting the sentence rather than pardoning...it allows Libby to continue with his appeal.  If we wins his appeal, it would clear his name as well and in that process we can put Joe Wilson under oath.  Oh wouldn't that be fun.

It is funny to watch the explosion on DKos and DummiesUnderground right now.  With Tom DeLay's appeal going to victory for him and now this, pretty funny watching the fishing expeditions go down in flames.


Now, if he REALLY wants to get conservatives excited, pardon those two Border Agents that are in prison right now for doing their damn job.


Welcome to America, where the judicial branch legislates, the legislative branch executes wars, and the executive branch metes out justice.

[Pakuni]

It is funny to watch the explosion on DKos and DummiesUnderground right now.  With Tom DeLay's appeal going to victory for him and now this, pretty funny watching the fishing expeditions go down in flames.

Fishing expedition? Down in flames? Huh?

But you just said Scotter was punished and, it seems to be your opinion, punished harshly. Which is it? Did it go down in flames or was he punished?

Anyhow, let's explore the "fishing expedition" theory a bit because that has got to be the lamest rationalization for criminal behavior I have ever heard. As the theory goes, it was unfair for Fitzgerald to indict Libby because Scooter had nothing to do with the leak and finding the source of the leak was the primary purpose of the investigation.
How silly is that?
Using that logic, a cop walking past a robbery in progress on his way to investigate a murder can't stop and do anything about it.

Of course, the same people offering this theory have no problem impeaching a president for lying regarding an affair with an intern during a grand jury investigation of an entirely different claim.

Is it too much to ask for a little consistency?

[tower912]

You agree with me, Chico?   Damn, now I have to rethink the whole thing.

[tower912]

Plus, he was just keeping up a family tradition. http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1992/921224-260039.htm
Man, stuff from the early 90's does not really translate well to the net.   I did find the irony in President-elect Clinton's statement.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Harry Reid responds

“The President's decision to commute Mr. Libby’s sentence is disgraceful. Libby’s conviction was the one faint glimmer of accountability for White House efforts to manipulate intelligence and silence critics of the Iraq War. Now, even that small bit of justice has been undone. Judge Walton correctly determined that Libby deserved to be imprisoned for lying about a matter of national security. The Constitution gives President Bush the power to commute sentences, but history will judge him harshly for using that power to benefit his own Vice President’s Chief of Staff who was convicted of such a serious violation of law.”

It's funny, Sandy Burgler....not a comment from him or from Reid (or soon Nancy, Hillary, Obama, etc on Sandy Burglar's actions or Bill Clinton's pardons, etc).  I wonder why?   

[augoman]

I still can't believe sandy burglar didn't do a day of time..., after all, he lied under oath about his theft and destruction of classified docs, until advised that he was on videotape!  Either of those crimes deserves serious time. 

[Pakuni]

I still can't believe sandy burglar didn't do a day of time..., after all, he lied under oath about his theft and destruction of classified docs, until advised that he was on videotape!  Either of those crimes deserves serious time. 

1. Berger did not lie under oath and was never charged with lying under oath. He, in fact, was never called to testify about his Hamburglar act.

2. He didn't do time because he 1) pleaded guilty and 2) was convicted of a misdemeanor. This may shock some, but people who take plea deals are dealt with less harshly than those who do not. That is, after all, the reason people take plea deals. Likewise, people convicted of misdemeanors almost always receive less severe sentences than those convicted of felonies.

[Phi Iota Gamma 84]

included on this list are known rapists, drug dealers, sexual predator, child molestor, etc....yet I'm sure you will hear the feigned "outrage" by Hillary on this within the next 30 minutes if not sooner.

COMMUTATIONS:

Benjamin Berger

Ronald Henderson Blackley

Bert Wayne Bolan

Chicos...The list would be more impressive if you had how much they paid for the pardons/commutations and whether or not they got a night in the Lincoln Bedroom thrown in.

[Murffieus]

What the trial came down to is-----does the jury believe Tim Russert or Scooter Libby-----the jury predictably sided with Russert who could have been lying through his teeth (being moderater of meet the press didn't hurt him here)-----we'll never know for sure-----but given the margin for error here, 2 1/2 years is very excessive.

All boils down to much to do about nothing, as their was no underlying crime commited----the person that leaked the information on Valarie Plame wasn't charged!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pakuni, not long ago....a few months ago...you said you were supportive of McCain and Giuliani.

Giuliani today said he was a bit disappointed by Bush's actions yesterday.....he wanted Bush to give him a FULL PARDON.  I thought that was interesting.

McCain, meanwhile was silent on the issue...he must still be figuring out how to get 50 million additional people into the country.

Romney called it reasonable.

And as predicted, the feigned outrage on the left has been all to predictable and in some cases, the absolute rank height of hypocrisy.


Now....Pardon those two Border Patrol agents!

[Pakuni]

Pakuni, not long ago....a few months ago...you said you were supportive of McCain and Giuliani.

I don't recall saying I'm supportive if McCain, though I do like Rudy.
That said, of course they say they support it. They are, after all, in a primary and need to feed the base all the red meat they can handle. In that regard, the myth that Scooter Libby was somehow mistreated by the system is the equivalent of a 24-ounce Porterhouse.
That said, simply because Rudy and/or McCain endorsed the move does not make it right and does not make it justified. They are both wrong on this count.
Scooter Libby's commutation had nothing to do with justice and everything to do with politics, and that alone is reason to be outraged. Had there been an actual miscarriage of justice here, that's one thing. But there's zero evidence that is the case here. There's no question here whether Scooter received a fair and full trial and was found guilty under the laws of this nation. His sentence was commuted not because of an injustice, but because who he knows. So much for justice being blind.

As for the left's outrage, I have no doubt that has more to do with politics than a genuine feeling that the justice system has been subverted. The right played the same game with Marc Rich. Both sides are wrong.

Regarding Murff's comment about it being much ado about nothing, he's full of bunk. Lying under oath to impede a criminal investigation is never much ado about nothing.
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts Murff didn't feel the same way about Slick Willie lying under oath. And that, mind you, wasn't to impede an investigation, but to cover his you-know-what.

[ilovefreeway]

What the trial came down to is-----does the jury believe Tim Russert or Scooter Libby-----the jury predictably sided with Russert who could have been lying through his teeth (being moderater of meet the press didn't hurt him here)-----we'll never know for sure-----but given the margin for error here, 2 1/2 years is very excessive.

All boils down to much to do about nothing, as their was no underlying crime commited----the person that leaked the information on Valarie Plame wasn't charged!

I'm a prosecutor, so please believe me that no charge doesn't = no crime.

[mviale]

all of clintons pardon/commutations served some time.

[Murffieus]

Well a bigtime criminal like Marc Rich should do time ! The guy ripped off millions!

[tower912]

W(tf) was within his rights to commute Libby's sentence.   But there was underlying crimes, no matter what the nattering nabobs on the right say.   Plame was undercover, that is why the CIA originally requested the investigation into the leak; because one of their covert agents had been outed.  A crime.   No one else was indicted because of Libby's lies.  His refusal to tell the truth was the source of the obstruction and perjury charges that a jury convicted him of.   That is why Fitzgerald said in the indictment that Libby threw sand in the eyes of the umpire.   No further case could be proven because Libby wouldn't tell the truth.  Pretty simple.   But, GWB did have the right to commute the sentence, and as I posted before, he has no one left to offend, so, other than history, it really isn't a loser for him.

[mviale]

Why do the regressives always claim "its not the first time" whenever they do something wrong - this doesnt make it right.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why do the regressives always claim "its not the first time" whenever they do something wrong - this doesnt make it right.

Why do the JackAsses come unglued when someone on the right does something that the left has been doing for years and there isn't a peep out of the left when it's their guy?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why hasn't Fitzfong gone after Richard Armitage...the person that ACTUALLY DID THE LEAKING???

We all know the real answer, but shhhhhh....we can't say it because that wouldn't be right.

[mviale]

Pardoning your own bad employees - shame shame

Just resign for america's sake

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why do the regressives always claim "its not the first time" whenever they do something wrong - this doesnt make it right.

Regressives...wow...well after reading this piece today from "PROGRESSIVES" then I'm pleased that I'm a regressive.  What a bunch of loons.

The Progressive Online...."Put Away the Flags" by Howard Zinn

http://progressive.org/media_mpzinn070106

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pardoning your own bad employees - shame shame

Just resign for america's sake

You mean like Henry Cisneros, Mike Espy, etc....keep coming up with them Mviale, it's like hitting a ball off a tee.

[ChicosBailBonds]

all of clintons pardon/commutations served some time.

Wanna bet?

[Pakuni]

Pardoning your own bad employees - shame shame

Just resign for america's sake

You mean like Henry Cisneros, Mike Espy, etc....keep coming up with them Mviale, it's like hitting a ball off a tee.

Clinton never pardoned Espy. He never needed to pardon Espy because Espy was found not guilty. It would be kind of silly to pardon someone who wasn't convicted, don't you think?
In this case, I'd suggest you whiffed on that swing. Or, at the very least, shanked that one to the ladies' tees.

As for Cisneros, do you believe that was the right thing or wrong thing to do?

Would you agree that clinton;s

[Pakuni]

Why hasn't Fitzfong gone after Richard Armitage...the person that ACTUALLY DID THE LEAKING???

We all know the real answer, but shhhhhh....we can't say it because that wouldn't be right.

Oh, do tell. Since you seem to have an inside track on the decisionmaking process of one Patrick Fitzgerald. I'm looking forward to this.

You're Fitzfong comment, while I hope was merely a weak attempt at humor, is ridiculously far off base. I guess can understand your ire over a prosecutor who had the temerity to do his job rather than suck up to the Republican establishment. But this country needs more Patrick Fitzgeralds, fewer Alberto Gonzalezs, Monica Goodlings and Kyle Sampsons.

[tower912]

I love the fact that Marc Rich is being brought into the discussion of Scooter Libby.   Who here remembers who the attorney was for Marc Rich?   Anyone?   Anyone?   Bueller?     Answer:   Scooter Libby was one of the attorneys for Marc Rich.   What a country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

[Murffieus]

So does that make Libby a criminal-?------that's what a criminal attorney does ----defends criminals. Is Johnny Cochran a criminal because he defended OJ?

[jutaw22mu]

clinton had something like 467 pardons during his 8 years in term (i think 100 on the last day in office).  W has around 100 so far i believe.

As far as commutations, W is in the single digits while Clinton had between 60-80.  i cant remember exact numbers.  seriously unlike impeachment boy, W has not abused the commutations/pardons. 

when are liberals going to learn to grow up.

[ilovefreeway]

Why hasn't Fitzfong gone after Richard Armitage...the person that ACTUALLY DID THE LEAKING???

We all know the real answer, but shhhhhh....we can't say it because that wouldn't be right.

First off, don't blame Fitzgerald for any of this.  He has had an oustanding career as a prosecutor and is well known for not letting politics get into his decision making.  When then Senator Fitzgerald (no relation) brought him into Illinois people called it the senators' death knell (and it was) because neither side wanted that type pf prosecutor

Second, what evidence, ADMISSABLE IN COURT UNDER FEDERAL RULES OF EVIDENCE, does Fitzgerald have against anyone else in this leak case?

Career
Fitzgerald was born into a working-class Irish American-Catholic family in Brooklyn and grew up in the Flatbush neighborhood. His father (also named Patrick Fitzgerald) worked as a doorman in Manhattan. Fitzgerald attended Holy Cross grammar school, Our Lady Help of Christians grammar school, Regis High School, a prestigious Jesuit Catholic school in Manhattan, and received degrees in economics and mathematics from Amherst College before receiving his JD from Harvard Law School in 1985.

After practicing civil law, Fitzgerald became an Assistant United States Attorney in New York City in 1988. He handled drug-trafficking cases and in 1993 assisted in the prosecution of Mafia figure John Gotti, the boss of the Gambino crime family.  In 1994, Fitzgerald became the prosecutor in the case against Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman and 11 others charged in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

In 1996, Fitzgerald became the National Security Coordinator for the Office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. There, he served on a team of prosecutors investigating Osama bin Laden. He also served as chief counsel in prosecutions related to the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.

On September 1, 2001, Fitzgerald was nominated for the position of U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois on the recommendation of U.S. Senator Peter Fitzgerald (no relation), a Republican from Illinois. On October 24, 2001, the nomination was confirmed by the Senate.


Illinois
Soon after becoming U.S. Attorney for Northern Illinois, Fitzgerald began an investigation of political appointees of Republican Illinois Governor George Ryan, who were suspected of accepting bribes to give licenses to unqualified truck drivers. Fitzgerald soon expanded this investigation, uncovering a network of political bribery and gift-giving, and leading to more than 60 indictments. Ryan, who did not seek re-election in 2002, was indicted in December 2003. At the conclusion of the trial, in April 2006, Ryan was found guilty on all eighteen counts against him. Ryan's co-defendant, Chicago businessman Larry Warner, 67, was convicted of racketeering conspiracy, fraud, attempted extortion, and money laundering. The two were sentenced on 6 September 2006: Ryan received a sentence of six and one half years, and Warner received a sentence of three years, five months.

Against criticism that these cases were based on circumstantial evidence, Fitzgerald responded: "People now know that if you're part of a corrupt conduct, where one hand is taking care of the other and contracts are going to people, you don't have to say the word 'bribe' out loud.... And I think people need to understand we won't be afraid to take strong circumstantial cases into court."

On July 18, 2005, Fitzgerald's office indicted a number of top aides to Democrat Richard M. Daley, the mayor of Chicago, on charges of mail fraud, alleging numerous instances of corruption in hiring practices at City Hall. Fitzgerald is also investigating the administration of current Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. An investigation announced on December 30, 2005 will review contracts between the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority and vendors who signed leases to occupy the recently remodeled Illinois Tollway oases. Fitzgerald's office is investigating possible conflicts of interest between these vendors and one of Blagojevich's top fundraisers, Antoin Rezko.

In March 2006, former Chicago City Clerk James Laski pled guilty to pocketing nearly $50,000 in bribes for steering city business to two trucking companies. Thus far Laski is the highest-ranking Chicago official and Daley administration employee brought down by Fitzgerald's office in conjunction with the Hired Truck Program scandal.

U.S. Senator Peter Fitzgerald chose not to run for reelection in 2004, leaving Patrick Fitzgerald without a congressional patron. In the summer of 2005, there were rumors that he would not be reappointed to a second four-year term in retaliation for his conduct in investigations into corruption in Illinois and Chicago government, as well as for his investigation of the Plame scandal.  As of May 15, 2007, those "rumors" had not been realized.

[Pakuni]

clinton had something like 467 pardons during his 8 years in term (i think 100 on the last day in office).  W has around 100 so far i believe.

As far as commutations, W is in the single digits while Clinton had between 60-80.  i cant remember exact numbers.  seriously unlike impeachment boy, W has not abused the commutations/pardons. 

when are liberals going to learn to grow up.

If using one's executive authority to commute the sentence of a political ally and friend in a case totally absent of injustice doesn't qualify as an abuse of power, then what does?
Scooter Libby's sentence was commuted because the President didn't want his friend to have to go to prison. Period. Not because Scooter has health issues that would make his imprisonment an extreme hardship. Not because there are questions regarding the fairness of his trial. Not because there are questions about his guilt.
But because he's the President's pal.
That is an abuse of power.

As for Clinton's use of his executive authority:

1. Does volume in an of itself = abuse?
2. Why do Bush's defenders also justify his wrongful actions by pointing out wrongful actions by Clinton? It's a pretty lame defense. It's also funny that you suggest liberals "grow up" while using the "he did it too" argument to defend Bush.

[jutaw22mu]

you would be naive to say that clintons pardons and commutations werent also political allies.  as for scooter libby, i have no problems with his sentence being commuted. 

the volume of commutations and pardons allowed by clinton was no doubt abuse.  clinton was loved by all liberals.  liberals hate bush solely on the basis of his conservativism.  they cant overlook their blind hatred of bush to see many of the good things he has done for this country.  it disgusts me how whenever W does something, the democrats can find absolutely no good in it.  the positions most liberals take on issues is disgusting to me, but if we were unfortunate enough to have hillary clinton (or even obama who is ridiculous) elected into office, i would still be behind them as our president.  sure there are things they will do that i wont like but they will also do some good things for this country (i hope) and i will recognize that. 

its impossible to debate with a liberal because all it ever turns into is a argument.  when they run out of things to say they start calling you close-minded.  grow up, our president isnt all that bad (to say he's the worst is deplorable).  america is still a strong country and a wonderful place to live.  there are things that are wrong with society, but they weren't caused by this president.  they were caused by previous administrations (both democrat and republican).

[Pakuni]

you would be naive to say that clintons pardons and commutations werent also political allies.  as for scooter libby, i have no problems with his sentence being commuted. 

Which is why I didn't say "clintons pardons and commutations werent also political allies".
No doubt some of them were. That, however, makes Libby's commutation no less shameful.
I suspect the reason you and Chico's have no problem with Libby's commutation has much less to do with justice than his political party.

And, if I'm to understand your concluding statement, President GW Bush cannot be held responsible for not one of America's problems (including a boondoggle of a war he started), but we can blame everybody who served his office before him?
Hmmmm.

[Murffieus]

The thing that allowed GWB to be able to justify his commutation is the fact that the presiding judge imposed a sentence which was far two exceesive (2 1/2 years) for the crime. Had the judge given Scooter 6 months, GWB would have had a hard time justifying commutung that (at this time) without looking like he disrespected the court system (the verdict itself)!

[gjreda]

The thing that allowed GWB to be able to justify his commutation is the fact that the presiding judge imposed a sentence which was far two exceesive (2 1/2 years) for the crime. Had the judge given Scooter 6 months, GWB would have had a hard time justifying commutung that (at this time) without looking like he disrespected the court system (the verdict itself)!

FYI - Tony Snow said in the Rose Garden the next day that the President felt any jail time at all would have been excessive so this argument does not hold.  Tony Snow implied that W would have done the same even if it was an "inexcessive" six month sentence.

[Pakuni]

The thing that allowed GWB to be able to justify his commutation is the fact that the presiding judge imposed a sentence which was far two exceesive (2 1/2 years) for the crime. Had the judge given Scooter 6 months, GWB would have had a hard time justifying commutung that (at this time) without looking like he disrespected the court system (the verdict itself)!

Excessive to who?
Certainly not to sentencing Judge Reggie Walton, a career prosecutor and judge who was appointed to his post by none other than George W. Bush.
And certainly not to a Republican-appointed federal prosecutor (Fitzgerald) who sought a sentence in the 30-37 month range.

And not even to George W. Bush ... if the defendant in question isn't a pal. Just as Victor Rita, a decorated veteran who is doing 33 months in prison for a nearly identical crime as Libby's. As you'll see in the story below, the Bush Administration argued before the U.S. Supreme Court that 33 months was not an excessive sentence for a previously law-abiding government worker convicted of perjury.

Similarly, in a case decided two weeks ago by the United States Supreme Court and widely discussed by legal specialists in light of the Libby case, the Justice Department persuaded the court to affirm the 33-month sentence of a defendant whose case closely resembled that against Mr. Libby. The defendant, Victor A. Rita, was, like Mr. Libby, convicted of perjury, making false statements to federal agents and obstruction of justice.Mr. Rita has performed extensive government service, just as Mr. Libby has. Mr. Rita served in the armed forces for more than 25 years, receiving 35 commendations, awards and medals. Like Mr. Libby, Mr. Rita had no criminal history for purposes of the federal sentencing guidelines.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/washington/04commute.html

So, if you lie to impede a federal investigation and don't know the President, 33 months is appropriate.
If you lie to impede a federal investigation and do know the President, 30 months is excessive.
Do I understand that correctly?

[ChicosBailBonds]

We also conveniently forget about Clinton's pardons and how they came about...can we say QUID PRO QUO.  And yes, it happens on both sides


Example


Rick Hendrick -

Hendrick, owner of a major car dealership and NASCAR team owner, was convicted for mail fraud in 1997.
Hendrick was on the Board of Directors of NationsBank.
Hendrick's friend Hugh McColl was the chairman of NationsBank at that time.
NationsBank merged with Bank of America
Hugh McColl became chairman and CEO of Bank of America
Rick Hendrick requested a pardon from Bill Clinton
Bank of America chairman Hugh McColl wrote a letter to Bill Clinton recommending a pardon for Rick Hendrick
On December 7, 2000, Hugh McColl announced that Bank of America would donate $500,000 to the Clinton Foundation
On December 21, 2000, Bill Clinton granted a pardon to Rick Hendrick.



Example

Dale Bumpers buying a pardon for Archie Schaffer.

Example

Marc Rich who's wife Denise piled on the donations to the Clintons in exchange for a pardon. 

Example

Braswell and Vignalli.

Clinton also pardoned carnival operators Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory. How did carnival operators get on his radar? Turns out they had loaned Hillary's brother, Tony Rodham, $107,000, which he never repaid. He didn't have to, as it turns out. Clinton stamped that debt "paid in full" with his pardons.

Then there was Carlos Vignali, a cocaine trafficker whose sentence Clinton commuted. And Almon Glenn Braswell, who was found guilty of mail fraud and perjury but won a pardon.

Why the pardon? Braswell and Vignali each paid Hillary's other brother, Hugh Rodham, $200,000, hoping he could win them clemency. Rodham returned the money, but only after the scandal became public.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're right Pakuni, Espy didn't need the pardon...under that tremendous "equality under the law" it was only the people that actually gave to Espy that went to prison...the folks at Tyson Foods and Sun Diamond.

Apparently Espy knew nothing of it...   


I think Rostenkowski's pardon is still the one to beat the band...that one and Roger Clinton's....or the worst one of all....16 KNOWN PUERTO RICAN TERRORISTS (FALN) that set off more than 130 bombs in the US and elsewhere (killing 6 and wounding hundreds) all in an effort to help Hillary get those votes in New York city.  Shameful.






Friday, January 24, l975 NYC FALN bombing

[Pakuni]

I think Rostenkowski's pardon is still the one to beat the band...that one and Roger Clinton's....or the worst one of all....16 KNOWN PUERTO RICAN TERRORISTS (FALN) that set off more than 130 bombs in the US and elsewhere (killing 6 and wounding hundreds) all in an effort to help Hillary get those votes in New York city.  Shameful.

Second verse, same as the first.

Again, why do you continue to defend Bush's shameful behavior by citing Clinton's shameful behavior? Why do you seem to believe Bush's shady moves are somehow mitigated by Clinton's shady moves ... the latter being things you, no doubt, saw as outrageous.
The obvious answer, it seems, is your partisanship. You're more willing to accept unethical behavior so long as it's done by a person belonging to your political party of choice.
What Clinton did is not relevant. His wrongs don't make Bush's wrongs right.

And I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why 33 months in prison is appropriate for one perjurer with no prior criminal record and a history of distinguished service to his country, but no prison time at all is appropriate for another.

[Phi Iota Gamma 84]

Pardoning your own bad employees - shame shame

Just resign for america's sake

I won't be presumptious enough to use "for [all of] america's sake"

I would suggest for the sake of the USA.  In addition to the Prez please lets add all of the Senators and Representatives that have been there way too long (Byrd, Kennedy, Hatch, Conyers, Sensenbrenner, Obey, Feingold, and about 500+ more)  then we really would have change.

[mu03eng]

I was absolutely echo your statement Phi.  Needs a completely clean sweep and start fresh.  Everyone of the senators, congressmen, and the president needs to be replaced.  I think this election cycle might actually be the time for a third party to develop.  A lot of centrists are disillusioned and fed of with whack jobs on both sides of the spectrum.

We'll see, I'm sure we are getting ready for another 4 years of more of the same, oh well.