[Cracked Sidewalks] - MU & Self-Reporting

[mu03eng]

You do realize, of course, that reports of Mayo's suspension had been posted on this forum and elsewhere for more than a day prior to Walker writing about it, right? And that reports of him being in some sort of trouble had been posted on this forum and elsewhere for weeks before then.

A person using logic might suggest that these reports got to Walker or someone else at the JS, and Walker then contacted Buzz who confirmed the reports.

A person driving a predetermined narrative might suggest that the administration "leaked" to Walker news that had already been out there for more than 24 hours in an effort to .... what?

Glad that you're now willing to consider that the 720 news "might" not have been leaked, given that the JS reporting on the matter clearly states that they obtained the information through other means.

First I don't believe I ever said 720 was leaked, if fact I thought I said it was the one thing that didn't seem leaked.

Second, the Mayo story leaked, whether it leaked to Don Walker or to Scoop, it leaked.  Also there is definitely a gap between when a story is found out and a story is reported on.  Don Walker may have known about the Mayo thing 4 or 5 days before it was published and was waiting to get a hold of Buzz.  Either way, we know the story leaked because Scoop knew about it.

At the end of the day all this is is I look at a set of facts and say I think the administration is being less "accommodating" to the present coach then previous administrations were and were to previous coaches.  You look at the same facts and say, nope everything is normal here move on.  Fine, unless facts change or additional facts are brought to light, we have formed different opinions and thats how its gonna be.

[Pakuni]

Second, the Mayo story leaked, whether it leaked to Don Walker or to Scoop, it leaked.  Also there is definitely a gap between when a story is found out and a story is reported on.  Don Walker may have known about the Mayo thing 4 or 5 days before it was published and was waiting to get a hold of Buzz.  Either way, we know the story leaked because Scoop knew about it.

One last thing and I'll let this part of the thread die ... are you suggesting it's possible Larry Williams or someone else within the Marquette administration is leaking damaging information about players or others associated with the program to random posters at MU Scoop and other fan sites?

p.s. There is rarely a gap of 4-5 days between when a story is found out and when it is published. A 4-5 hour gap is considered an eternity these days.

[ATL MU Warrior]

First I don't believe I ever said 720 was leaked, if fact I thought I said it was the one thing that didn't seem leaked.

Second, the Mayo story leaked, whether it leaked to Don Walker or to Scoop, it leaked.  Also there is definitely a gap between when a story is found out and a story is reported on.  Don Walker may have known about the Mayo thing 4 or 5 days before it was published and was waiting to get a hold of Buzz.  Either way, we know the story leaked because Scoop knew about it.

At the end of the day all this is is I look at a set of facts and say I think the administration is being less "accommodating" to the present coach then previous administrations were and were to previous coaches.  You look at the same facts and say, nope everything is normal here move on.  Fine, unless facts change or additional facts are brought to light, we have formed different opinions and thats how its gonna be.

Or maybe our current coach is being less "accommodating" to the indiscretions of his players and is fine with the punishments handed out as part of, you know, molding these guys into young men. 

Nah, that couldn't possibly be true, LW is out to get him!

[mu03eng]

Or maybe our current coach is being less "accommodating" to the indiscretions of his players and is fine with the punishments handed out as part of, you know, molding these guys into young men. 

Nah, that couldn't possibly be true, LW is out to get him!

Or you took what I said and went all internet hyperbole tough guy.  I never said LW was out to get anyone. 

I think the administration has decided to be less tolerant of the men's bb program than in the past.  That is my interpretation of the facts I know, and if that is what is going on I don't agree with it.  I will also grant I could be wrong and if facts become available to the contrary I will change my stance.

My apologizes if I don't fit neatly into your conspiracy theory box.

[GGGG]

Second, the Mayo story leaked, whether it leaked to Don Walker or to Scoop, it leaked.  Also there is definitely a gap between when a story is found out and a story is reported on.  Don Walker may have known about the Mayo thing 4 or 5 days before it was published and was waiting to get a hold of Buzz.  Either way, we know the story leaked because Scoop knew about it.

But there were many people that likely knew about it.  That doesn't mean that it was officially leaked.

I mean, I know that Mayo was in trouble way back in April.  I'm not going to tell you how I knew about it, but I can tell you that Larry Williams didn't directly or indirectly let me know about it.  There are a lot of people associated with the basketball program.  And a lot of those people have friends they talk to.

Just because Scoop knew something doesn't mean that the AD let it slip out to us.

[mu03eng]

One last thing and I'll let this part of the thread die ... are you suggesting it's possible Larry Williams or someone else within the Marquette administration is leaking damaging information about players or others associated with the program to random posters at MU Scoop and other fan sites?

p.s. There is rarely a gap of 4-5 days between when a story is found out and when it is published. A 4-5 hour gap is considered an eternity these days.

I'm saying it is possible someone within the athletic department and/or administration is getting information out into the public domain as a means of "damage control", ie getting in front of the story.  I don't think the information is being leaked to Scoop as "the" path, that's just stupid.  I think the information is going out via some channel that as a side effect puts it into scoop....the more people you tell the more people will know....etc.

As far as 4-5 days.....talk to Ted Edlund about merely hours to report stories on MUBB

[ATL MU Warrior]

Or you took what I said and went all internet hyperbole tough guy.  I never said LW was out to get anyone. 

I think the administration has decided to be less tolerant of the men's bb program than in the past.  That is my interpretation of the facts I know, and if that is what is going on I don't agree with it.  I will also grant I could be wrong and if facts become available to the contrary I will change my stance.

My apologizes if I don't fit neatly into your conspiracy theory box.

I don't care about putting you in some box.  You keep blaming the adminstration, repeatedly, in post after post.  Inherent in those statements is that the administration and Buzz are at odds over what's being done.  I'm only suggesting that maybe Buzz is ok with what's happening...he should be, unless his entire shtick is a charade. 

[mu03eng]

But there were many people that likely knew about it.  That doesn't mean that it was officially leaked.

I mean, I know that Mayo was in trouble way back in April.  I'm not going to tell you how I knew about it, but I can tell you that Larry Williams didn't directly or indirectly let me know about it.  There are a lot of people associated with the basketball program.  And a lot of those people have friends they talk to.

Just because Scoop knew something doesn't mean that the AD let it slip out to us.

I think the number of people that would officially know things like that are relatively small.  And we know things are leaking officially or unofficially....based on what I see, I think it tends toward the official but I very much could be wrong.

Based on the internet furor over the SMU thing and LW being a smart guy by all accounts, that he wouldn't want information getting out there slowly to prepare the masses?  Providing information on other things like the violation to Walker also earns his trust if he needs it later for some other issue that might pop up to try and control the message.

I don't think there is any evil intent to what I think LW and the admin are doing....I just wouldn't handle it that way and as a side effect it is potentially rubbing Buzz the wrong way.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm saying it is possible someone within the athletic department and/or administration is getting information out into the public domain as a means of "damage control", ie getting in front of the story.  I don't think the information is being leaked to Scoop as "the" path, that's just stupid.  I think the information is going out via some channel that as a side effect puts it into scoop....the more people you tell the more people will know....etc.

As far as 4-5 days.....talk to Ted Edlund about merely hours to report stories on MUBB

Your theory seems reasonable, but I'm not sure these (alleged) leaks are not really accomplishing the "let's get out in front of this" stance.

If they want to get out in front, just use the AD at a podium and issue a press release with some quotes from the head coach. Go through the normal reporters/beat writers, and maybe even do an interview or 2. That's getting out in front.

Weird leaks don't indicate that they are "trying to get out in front".

In all honesty, I wonder if some of this increased scrutiny is just from A. Increased sustained success B. An uptick in "incidents" which leads the media to search, and run with more MU player behavior stories.

For all we know, in 2008, Rosiak knew about some minor incidents, but those weren't news. Fast forward to 2012, and MU has had enough recent issues that all of the little stuff makes news.

The spotlight (fortunate or unfortunate) has been turned up, and that might be what is causing the increased frequency of these stories.

[mu03eng]

I don't care about putting you in some box.  You keep blaming the adminstration, repeatedly, in post after post.  Inherent in those statements is that the administration and Buzz are at odds over what's being done.  I'm only suggesting that maybe Buzz is ok with what's happening...he should be, unless his entire shtick is a charade. 

I'm not blaming the administration for anything.  I believe the admin is behaving in a certain way for reasons I just laid out and as a side effect I believe it is rubbing Buzz the wrong way.  If it turns out I'm right, I don't agree with what/how they are doing things.

Buzz may be ok with everything, but I see more evidence that he is not then evidence that he is.

[mu03eng]

Your theory seems reasonable, but I'm not sure these (alleged) leaks are not really accomplishing the "let's get out in front of this" stance.

If they want to get out in front, just use the AD at a podium and issue a press release with some quotes from the head coach. Go through the normal reporters/beat writers, and maybe even do an interview or 2. That's getting out in front.

Weird leaks don't indicate that they are "trying to get out in front".

In all honesty, I wonder if some of this increased scrutiny is just from A. Increased sustained success B. An uptick in "incidents" which leads the media to search, and run with more MU player behavior stories.

For all we know, in 2008, Rosiak knew about some minor incidents, but those weren't news. Fast forward to 2012, and MU has had enough recent issues that all of the little stuff makes news.

The spotlight (fortunate or unfortunate) has been turned up, and that might be what is causing the increased frequency of these stories.

I think being that overt doesn't accomplish what you want.  If they just want info out and see what happens I agree with you.  I think this is more about shaping the narrative with the media over the long run.  I think its about currying favor with the media and getting info out in a less "explosive" manner.  I think LW and the admin are concerned with the MUBB image and are trying to proactively shape that image.  At the end of the day, I am actually giving LW and the admin a lot of credit for trying to be sophisticated in the new media market.

[Rubie Q]

I think being that overt doesn't accomplish what you want.  If they just want info out and see what happens I agree with you.  I think this is more about shaping the narrative with the media over the long run.  I think its about currying favor with the media and getting info out in a less "explosive" manner.  I think LW and the admin are concerned with the MUBB image and are trying to proactively shape that image.  At the end of the day, I am actually giving LW and the admin a lot of credit for trying to be sophisticated in the new media market.

But how would leaking this information to Walker help the administration in the long run? He's not the Marquette beat reporter. Hell, he's not even doing that sports business beat he was before; he said a month ago that he'd be doing mostly urban affairs, with a "dollop" of sports business sprinkled in.

I think the more reasonable explanation is the one shaqilvaine mentioned a while ago: Walker has a source inside MU that's feeding him this information. He learned about the violation, called Larry Williams to confirm, and LW sent him -- and only him -- that "official release" in response.

[mu03eng]

But how would leaking this information to Walker help the administration in the long run? He's not the Marquette beat reporter. Hell, he's not even doing that sports business beat he was before; he said a month ago that he'd be doing mostly urban affairs, with a "dollop" of sports business sprinkled in.

I think the more reasonable explanation is the one shaqilvaine mentioned a while ago: Walker has a source inside MU that's feeding him this information. He learned about the violation, called Larry Williams to confirm, and LW sent him -- and only him -- that "official release" in response.

Who really is MU's beat writer.....Walker's covered almost all of MU stories with the exception of the TJ Taylor story by MU favorite Jeff P.  Walker's also been the one to write ALL of the "breaking" MU news going back through the last year, IIRC

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But how would leaking this information to Walker help the administration in the long run? He's not the Marquette beat reporter. Hell, he's not even doing that sports business beat he was before; he said a month ago that he'd be doing mostly urban affairs, with a "dollop" of sports business sprinkled in.

I think the more reasonable explanation is the one shaqilvaine mentioned a while ago: Walker has a source inside MU that's feeding him this information. He learned about the violation, called Larry Williams to confirm, and LW sent him -- and only him -- that "official release" in response.

Right.

In fact, Walker might have heard about other things in his career as well, but they weren't "news".

An underage player from an NIT team wasn't really breaking news.

In 2012, MU is under the spotlight due to their success, and some prior off the court issues. Stuff (behavior, transfers, suspensions) is going to get reported.

This may piss off Larry and Buzz, but this is D1 hoops, and media scrutiny comes with the gig.

[The Equalizer]

I'm not blaming the administration for anything.  I believe the admin is behaving in a certain way for reasons I just laid out and as a side effect I believe it is rubbing Buzz the wrong way.  If it turns out I'm right, I don't agree with what/how they are doing things.

Buzz may be ok with everything, but I see more evidence that he is not then evidence that he is.

Can you outline this evidence?

I don't think I've seen anything from Buzz since this story broke.

[Rubie Q]

Who really is MU's beat writer.....Walker's covered almost all of MU stories with the exception of the TJ Taylor story by MU favorite Jeff P.  Walker's also been the one to write ALL of the "breaking" MU news going back through the last year, IIRC

Enlund wrote the Journal's story on Mayo getting suspended, on Durley withdrawing, on Jamail Jones transferring, and on MU hiring Isaac Chew. Potrykus wrote the story on TJ Taylor transferring.

The only things that Walker has covered involved Apt 720 -- which I think we all agree was not leaked by Larry Williams -- and the secondary violation.

EDIT: And the infamous "Larry h8s Buzz" interview from earlier this year. Can't leave that one out.

[mu03eng]

Can you outline this evidence?

I don't think I've seen anything from Buzz since this story broke.

Off the top of my head we have the SMU flirtation(biggest flag for me), the email response to a poster, seemed to have a chip on his shoulder when speaking at BBQ, and a general keeping his head down the last 9 months. I am interpreting things to a large degree but short of a statement from Buzz that he is either happy or unhappy with the current direction of the admin, all we have is some info and interpretation on top of it

[mu03eng]

Enlund wrote the Journal's story on Mayo getting suspended, on Durley withdrawing, on Jamail Jones transferring, and on MU hiring Isaac Chew. Potrykus wrote the story on TJ Taylor transferring.

The only things that Walker has covered involved Apt 720 -- which I think we all agree was not leaked by Larry Williams -- and the secondary violation.

EDIT: And the infamous "Larry h8s Buzz" interview from earlier this year. Can't leave that one out.

I haven't been able to dig through JSOnline, but if that is the case then my memory is faulty, I thought I remembered more Don Walker/MU stories than 2.

[bilsu]

Why would the leak not be Mayo himself? Anyone could have asked him a question that he responded that Buzz suspended him. It would be very easy for someone to notice he is not practicing with other players. Besides that it is the other things that Buzz does that tips people off that something is going on. I remember people questioning why Buzz did not mention Mayo when he was talking about next season. Mayo was not at Buzz's BQ. Those things get noticed by us diehards and lead to questions.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Off the top of my head we have the SMU flirtation(biggest flag for me), the email response to a poster, seemed to have a chip on his shoulder when speaking at BBQ, and a general keeping his head down the last 9 months. I am interpreting things to a large degree but short of a statement from Buzz that he is either happy or unhappy with the current direction of the admin, all we have is some info and interpretation on top of it

You forgot that Buzz didn't give Larry credit for the aircraft carrier game, a clear shot across LW bow.

AND I didn't see Buzz and Larry sharing a rack of ribs, just sayin'.

[Newsdreams]

MU cannot disclose "education records" of any of its students. Saying a kid has been suspended for missing classes, poor grades, skipping tutoring sessions, etc. could easily be interpreted as a release of education records, and thereby is prohibited by federal law.

Spot on! For those of you that do not have any kids in college (I have three – ouch!) know that privacy laws have become so ridiculous that once your kids are over 18 they have to give school permission to allow parents (yes even if parents are paying the bills!!) access to anything. This includes bills and obviously grades. So if that is required for parents imagine how careful the school has to be to put information in the public domain about any student.

[GGGG]

Spot on! For those of you that do not have any kids in college (I have three – ouch!) know that privacy laws have become so ridiculous that once your kids are over 18 they have to give school permission to allow parents (yes even if parents are paying the bills!!) access to anything. This includes bills and obviously grades. So if that is required for parents imagine how careful the school has to be to put information in the public domain about any student.

Not sure why you think this is "ridiculous."  They are adults.  (And I have one in college as well.)

[foreverwarriors]

I haven't been able to dig through JSOnline, but if that is the case then my memory is faulty, I thought I remembered more Don Walker/MU stories than 2.

Walker also reported that the Dept of Education was looking into the sexual assaults (it was 3 other reporters who re-reported the initial story from the Trib):

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/us-reviewing-marquette-response-to-sex-assault-reports-4e30gub-133656848.html

[Goose]

Self reporting is best approach in my opinion, especially if infractions can be sold down thru self reporting. From what I hear it was smart move by MU. Suspensions are not out of the question from what I heard and actually may be in place. This has nothing to do Todd Mayo.

[Newsdreams]

Not sure why you think this is "ridiculous."  They are adults.  (And I have one in college as well.)

I understand they are adults and trust all mi kids. They are way more responsible and mature than me at their current age. But being that they are still considered "dependents" my belief is that the parents paying the bills and being ultimately responsible for the "dependent" students should get access to the information. Just feel that the "dependent" student having to give his consent for parents to get access to the information is "ridiculous". But the point I was really making is if schools can't openly give information to parents, well obviously they have to be extra careful when they are reporting on student athlete issues such as suspensions.