VCU to A-10

[Dreadman24]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-vcu-heading-atlantic-155051638--ncaab.html;_ylt=AiTOvZneOwDg7IT3bSkGJMk5nYcB

The A-10 might be a better basketball conference when SU, PITT and WVU leaves:/

Keyword: MIGHT!

[Benny B]

All of the sudden, a secession of BE football and consumption of A-10 isn't looking too shabby.  Granted, it's not going to draw football money, but none of us were getting that any way.

A 16-team hoops conference consisting of Georgetown, Marquette, 4 of the Big 5, St. Johns, The Hall, Butler, Providence, VCU, SLU, Richmond, Xavier & Dayton? I challenge someone to find a better case, sustainable conference model for Marquette & the Big East.  (Not to mention what would likely continue to be a powerhouse in college hoops.)

(And Notre Dame can come along, whatever.  They can stay indy-foosball and have a home for all of their other sports.)



EDIT: Had the conference scenario above been incorporated in 2007:

1) The "new" Big East would have collected $25M in NCAA tournament shares in 2012. (The current Big East will collect $28.7M.)
2) Only two teams have been in the NCAA Tourney each year since 2007 - Xavier and Marquette.
3) The only time Xavier hasn't been to the Sweet 16 since 2008?  The year they lost to Marquette.  (haha)
4) The "new" Big East would have averaged 8 (and no fewer than 6 in a single year) NCAA bids per year since 2007.  A high of 10 bids in 2011.
5) Every team in the "new" conference would have had at least one NCAA or NIT bid since 2008.  (Not the case in the current Big East.)
6) Teams with the most tourney shares since 2007: Butler (18), Xavier (16), Marquette & Villanova (12), Georgetown (11)

[NotAnAlum]

The A-10 might be a better basketball conference when SU, PITT and WVU leaves:/

Keyword: MIGHT!

Maybe in a given "year" the A-10 might be stronger but to the casual fan the remaining Big East is still way ahead of the A-10.  UCONN, Nova, Georgetown, Louisville, ND and MU are far bigger basketball names than any of A-10 with the possible exception of X.  The remaining schools in the BE still have like 15+ basketball National Championships.  I don't think that A-10 even has 1.  The attendance at the BE schools is much higher.  They are just in completely different leagues   

[bilsu]

I think the ship is sailing on basketball schools from Big east merging with some basketball schools from A10. I also do not think Villanova and Georgetown are not going to be satisfied in joining a newly created conference with the other teams including MU. They clearly have higher expectations.

[Dawson Rental]

I think the ship is sailing on basketball schools from Big east merging with some basketball schools from A10. I also do not think Villanova and Georgetown are not going to be satisfied in joining a newly created conference with the other teams including MU. They clearly have higher expectations.

If you're saying that Nova and Georgetown won't leave the Big East to from an all basketball league, I agree with you.  If you're saying that they won't join such a conference in the event that the Big East implodes, then I disagree.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown and Villanova are not hitching themselves to a league of also-rans. Similarly, Marquette does not need to be considering the next MCC, which is what you're proposing.

[Skitch]

Unless they plan on getting BCS football going and being invited to ACC or Big 12, what better options would there be for Georgetown and Villanova? Wouldn't their position be as perilous as ours?

[Knight Commission]

Katz just tweeted more realignment news is forthcoming

[Dawson Rental]

Unless they plan on getting BCS football going and being invited to ACC or Big 12, what better options would there be for Georgetown and Villanova? Wouldn't their position be as perilous as ours?

The best option for all the basketball only schools in the Big East is to stay in the Big East, for pretty much as long as that option remains.  Memphis, Louisville, and Cincinnati couldn't be replaced by anyone from the A-10, except maybe Xavier which still wouldn't be anywhere near Louisville level.

[Dawson Rental]

Katz just tweeted more realignment news is forthcoming

Most likely Old Dominion to the A-10.

[The Equalizer]

A 16-team hoops conference consisting of Georgetown, Marquette, 4 of the Big 5, St. Johns, The Hall, Butler, Providence, VCU, SLU, Richmond, Xavier & Dayton? I challenge someone to find a better case, sustainable conference model for Marquette & the Big East.  (Not to mention what would likely continue to be a powerhouse in college hoops.)

This 16 team league would probably generate 8 NCAA bids a year on average.  6 or 7 in a down year--10 in the very best once-in-a-generation year.  This league would likely never equal the 11 bids that the Big East received in 2011

Split those 16 teams across two conferences, add 4 to 8 other teams from lower level conferences to each league, and each conference likely averages 5 bids a year (10 bids combined for those 16 teams).  4 each in a down year.  6 in an outstanding year.

The problem with the "superconference" idea is that you still have to spread an overall .500 league record across all teams.  Every win in conference play is also a loss.

If you don't care about the NCAA tournament, your proposed league is attractive becuase there would be more regular season games that would be of interest.  But if the goal is maximizing the overall number of NCAA bids, two leagues makes more sense.

[The Equalizer]

Unless they plan on getting BCS football going and being invited to ACC or Big 12, what better options would there be for Georgetown and Villanova? Wouldn't their position be as perilous as ours?

If you assume that there is no viable Big East option left on the table, Villanova and Georgetown could break from the Big East teams and join the A-10--without Marquette, DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall, or Providence. 

If they did so, they would be in an arguably stronger league, have a much easier shot at a championship without Marquette in the same league, and significantly damage their recruiting competition for the New York market from St. Johns and Seton Hall.

Even if Notre Dame joins with MU, DePaul, SJU, PC and SHU, it's a weaker core than Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, and Butler.   And I suspect that ND wouldn't join that group--they'd give up football independence and join the ACC or Big Ten.

As bad as that is for MU, it gets worse.  The BE football teams may wind up with ownership of the Big East name and automatic bid, and that would would force MU/DePaul/SJU/PC/SHU to join an existing league (other than the A10) if they want to avoid "new conference purgatory"--and the most likely 7-team league that is ready and able to absorb those five teams right now is the Horizon.

[GGGG]

If you assume that there is no viable Big East option left on the table, Villanova and Georgetown could break from the Big East teams and join the A-10--without Marquette, DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall, or Providence. 

If they did so, they would be in an arguably stronger league, have a much easier shot at a championship without Marquette in the same league, and significantly damage their recruiting competition for the New York market from St. Johns and Seton Hall.

Even if Notre Dame joins with MU, DePaul, SJU, PC and SHU, it's a weaker core than Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, and Butler.   And I suspect that ND wouldn't join that group--they'd give up football independence and join the ACC or Big Ten.

As bad as that is for MU, it gets worse.  The BE football teams may wind up with ownership of the Big East name and automatic bid, and that would would force MU/DePaul/SJU/PC/SHU to join an existing league (other than the A10) if they want to avoid "new conference purgatory"--and the most likely 7-team league that is ready and able to absorb those five teams right now is the Horizon.

OK...yes, that *could* happen. 

But if I spent my time worrying about something that remote, I don't think I could function in my everyday life.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Most likely Old Dominion to the A-10.

Old Dominion has a standing invitation to join Conference USA, as they are upgrading to FBS football.

New Conference USA

East: East Carolina, Marshall, Charlotte, Florida Int'l, Southern Miss, UAB, Old Dominion
West: Tulsa, UTEP, North Texas, Rice, Tulane, Louisiana Tech, UTSA

[dbwarriors]

A Catholic conference will form.  Remaining BE teams (Catholic schools) will form the league (maybe keep the Big East name) and will pull in other strong programs (e.g., Dayton, X, etc).  Maybe a Butler or VCU if they want to expand beyond Catholic schools.  Not gonna happen tmrw, but it will happen.

[KipsBayEagle]

The a-10 would crap themselves if they could get ahold of villanova, georgetown, AND MU

[real chili 83]

A Catholic conference will form.  Remaining BE teams (Catholic schools) will form the league (maybe keep the Big East name) and will pull in other strong programs (e.g., Dayton, X, etc).  Maybe a Butler or VCU if they want to expand beyond Catholic schools.  Not gonna happen tmrw, but it will happen.

You keep the name.  The Big East brand is huge.

[Hards Alumni]

two things.

1. There won't be an all catholic conference any time soon.

2. The football schools from the BEAST wont get to keep the name.  They will have to leave the conference... they can't just boot out all the basketball schools so they can keep the name.  It don't work that way.

[MURFC]

Do you know how it works?  Or maybe someone else on the board?  It would be interesting to know and maybe add some perspective on this whole thing is going to play out.  I would presume the founding members would have some kind of poison pill that would prevent a football takeover.  Out of the 5 remaining original members, it is fairly clear that 4 of them (Seton Hall, Providence, St. Johns and Georgetown) have interests closely aligned to our own.  UCONN is the lone remaining original member that has a real football program.

two things.

1. There won't be an all catholic conference any time soon.

2. The football schools from the BEAST wont get to keep the name.  They will have to leave the conference... they can't just boot out all the basketball schools so they can keep the name.  It don't work that way.

[tower912]

84....errr equaliser,  if there is a complete disintegration of the beast and mu doesn't end up in the a10, they would go MVC before the horizon.     Still a huge step backward, but horizon?   C'mon, man.

[GGGG]

Do you know how it works?  Or maybe someone else on the board?  It would be interesting to know and maybe add some perspective on this whole thing is going to play out.  I would presume the founding members would have some kind of poison pill that would prevent a football takeover.  Out of the 5 remaining original members, it is fairly clear that 4 of them (Seton Hall, Providence, St. Johns and Georgetown) have interests closely aligned to our own.  UCONN is the lone remaining original member that has a real football program.

It doesn't matter if you are original or not - they don't have a unique right to that name more than any other member.  

I am assuming that the bylaws have provisions for expelling a member.  (Like they did with Temple.)  Those likely require some sort of super-majority (two-thirds???  three-fourths???) so the basketball schools can't kick out the football schools and vice versa.  It would have to be some sort of negotiated settlement.

[Benny B]

Everyone needs to face facts... the Big East "brand" is most valuable as a BASKETBALL conference.

If a football / basketball split ever were to be initiated by the football schools, they are most certainly going to leave the Big East name behind and re-brand themselves; they are going to want nothing to do with the stigma that is Big East Football.  Now this isn't to say that the basketball schools retain the Big East name or assets... that's an entirely different negotiation.

Even if the basketball schools seceded, the remaining football schools most likely would drop the Big East name any way.  But that would be the dumbest move ever... the Big East "brand" is 10x more valuable to a basketball school like Georgetown than it is a football school like Rutgers.  With all of the shakin' going on, there's NO WAY IN HECK that Georgetown and Nova jump ship.  In fact, if I'm DeGioia and Donohue, I'm just biding my time with the intent of hanging on to the Big East name.

The bible says "thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife"... however, God has no issue with coveting your conference name.

[brewcity77]

I think the ship is sailing on basketball schools from Big east merging with some basketball schools from A10. I also do not think Villanova and Georgetown are not going to be satisfied in joining a newly created conference with the other teams including MU. They clearly have higher expectations.

That'll work well when reality sinks in. The ACC, SEC, and Big Ten would have no interest in either of them. Even if they upgrade their football programs, what serious football conference would want either of those teams when all they would do is drag down their rankings? The ACC already has one Duke, why would they want two more?

If the Big East as we know it ceases to exist, I have yet to see a single viable option that would be better for Villanova or Georgetown that is better than sticking with the current basketball-only schools, Marquette included, and possibly taking the upper crust of the A-10 or other quality basketball-onlies.

It's great to have higher expectations, but there simply isn't another option. What, become independent? This isn't 1973. But they will have one of four options after the ACC laughed at their applications:

1) Stay with the current Big East teams that would definitely want to stay with them.
2) Join a lesser football conference, such as C-USA, the MAC, or the Sun Belt. Have fun with that.
3) Dilly-dally while hoping for an acceptance and be left joining the remains of the A-10 or CAA. Again, have fun with that.
4) Go independent. How's that working for Seattle and Longwood?

At the end of the day, Georgetown and Villanova can puff out their chests all they like, but if this all goes down and the football and basketball schools part ways, they can either stay in a reconstituted Big East basketball league as top-tier teams in the top non-football basketball league or drop to inevitable mediocrity in a comparably crap league. No other options exist.

[Spotcheck Billy]

boy, Duke takes alot of crap for their football program even though they have won appeared in bowl games less than 20 years ago 

[brewcity77]

boy, Duke takes alot of crap for their football program even though they have won appeared in bowl games less than 20 years ago 

Uhh...that sentence doesn't make much sense, but...

• Duke hasn't been to a bowl game since 1995
• Duke hasn't been ranked since 1994
• Duke hasn't won a conference title since 1989
• Duke hasn't been ranked at the end of a season since 1962
• Duke hasn't won a bowl game since 1961
• Duke hasn't been ranked in the top-ten since 1943
• Duke hasn't been to bowl games in consecutive years since...ever